Get a guidebook and read it !!!!
 

People on this site are very helpful with information when asked with some intelligence. But requestors who are 'taking a trip in 2002 to PogoLand' and don't have a clue as to where it is, what there own interests are or even why they are going, and then ask travelers for 'must sees' or 'must dos' are incredibly irritating. First suggestion - buy a guidebook or two, read them, and then come back with your questions. Second suggestion - use the search facility because you are probably not the first person to ask the very same exact question.

Amen. Totally agree with you. Its not that we are diminishing your intelligence or your enthusiasm, but after reading a guidebook, you'll have a better idea of WHAT you WANT to see. Then ask away!!

Geez Sullivan and JCE, I wonder how intelligent your first questions were on this website, cause you sure sound stupid now. This forum is a guidebook of sorts you idiots!!!

I think my fav question is "Is xxx worth it?". I always want to ask "Worth what?"

I am usually willing to answer most questions, if I know the answer, but the ones I really balk at are the "Is it worth it..." questions. How in hell do I know if something is worth it to you? And how do I know in general if something is "worth it?" Beats me. Maybe you crave Disney while I crave Rafael. The "is it worth it" questions are best left unanswered as no on ecan determine the mindset of the poster.

I guess it's because I'm such a control freak that questions like "I'm going to xxx next year, what should I see?" give me the willies. The mere thought of depending upon the advice of non-professionals for planning my trip makes me feel queasy. If something I read or see piques my interest, I head to the library, the travelbook store and the tourist bureau sites on the web to get as much information as I can. I plan my trip based on that information. If I run into a snag (i.e. Lord Crudwell), I'll ask on this forum for help. <BR> <BR>Obviously, other people are psychologically more stable than I and have no compunction about leaving their trip in the hands of Forum posters. <BR> <BR>I treat a trip like any other major purchase; I research using professional sources until I'm down to asking a friend "do you really use the self-cleaning oven feature enough to warrant the extra money?"

I also get a kick out of those "is it worth it" questions. However, what should I care in what order people do their research. Guide books are expensive and the library isn't always well stocked. This forum is a good starting point. If it irked me that people use it as such I guess I just wouldn't answer. <BR> <BR>Frankly I'm not concerned about where anyone is with their research so don't go dictating what questions are acceptable or not on my account, thanks.

I roll my eyes at "is [one] night enough in ............." <BR> <BR>Ask the people who live there! What an insulting notion! <BR> <BR>

Had I known you "regular" so called foderites were such pathetic, no life, snobs, I never would have bothered filling your sad need for feeling superior by asking innocent questions. I thought this was a sharing board, many people who have asked so called inane questions have come back to this board with helpful hints and experienced advice for other inexperienced travellers. You are a jaded self-centered lot indeed. I feel sorry for you. <BR>Joan

GO Joan!!!! Big deal if people ask questions that seem silly to others. When it comes to travel I do my homework with friends who have traveled to areas first, then check out some web sites like this one, take some notes and then start looking through guides. and doing some thorough research all around to get a bigger picture before pulling the trigger...not every source will have all the answers, but don't assume that people are "dumb" or "lazy" just because they ask questions.

Having tried to relive someone else's experience in Venice and being sorely disappointed, I advise friends not to rely on other people's experiences and relive someone else's trip, but to have their own experiences. I was hot and tired when I got to Venice and it wasn't "magical" when I stepped out of the train station. I wondered if something was wrong with me not to feel the way I was told I would feel. It wasn't until that evening that I began to see the magic. <BR> <BR>So what is wonderful to me may well not be wonderful to someone I don't even know, and if he/she doesn't have a good experience, am I to blame for responding to his/her question? <BR> <BR>I don't think people are ignorant, I just don't think they know how to begin the planning process. Then of course there are those who are just too #&*$@( lazy to do so, but that's another story. <BR> <BR>'Nuff said (by me at least).

C'mon, there's a middle ground here. While I don't think people who ask questions should be belittled, I also think people could put a bit more thought into some of the questions they ask. <BR> <BR>For example, when someone asks a very general question like "What's a nice hotel in Paris?", people can certainly respond with their opinions about what they feel are 'nice' hotels, but it would help if the person asking the question was a bit more specific about what they wanted, things like price range, etc. <BR> <BR>As far as questions like "Is such-and-such 'worth' it?" or "What are must-sees?", I just see those as asking for people's opinions. Some may feel that Rome, for example, is 'worth' a week, others may feel it's only 'worth' a day or two, and still others may feel it's not 'worth' visiting at all. Likewise, I'm sure many people differ on what they consider 'must-sees'.

I ask "is it worth it" because I want to know more about it than I read in the guidebook. And it doesn't mean that I WON'T do it, just means that I'll know what to expect. <BR> <BR>Example: The guidebook for Monte Carlo said the changing of the guard is a "do not miss". I yawned through it!! If someone asked me, "is it worth it", I would say "no" and state why. <BR> <BR>Hasn't anyone else read a guidebook, done something or stayed somewhere suggested and shaken your head afterward, wondering why that was recommended? <BR> <BR>And getting the guidebook isn't always helpful -- if you're planning on going to France, where do you start? It's overwhelming. <BR> <BR>But I do think that if someone is going to ask, "where should I go", then they should also list likes/dislikes. It's helpful to people who answer the posts. <BR> <BR>And "is one night enough in..." means, "what key things should I see" -- time and money aren't always in enough supply. One night is almost never enough (Rome, Paris, etc) however it is better than never going at all....(I'm sure I'll get heat for that, but to this average, not a lot of money traveler, that one night may be my only shot, so I'm gonna go for it!) <BR> <BR>Yes, I too find that some people get judgemental. It's too bad -- I think that some people have forgotten what it's like to be a first time traveler.

I have never heard of anyone on this message board being blamed for the poor travel experience of someone else. <BR> I agree with Joan that a handful of regular fodorites have the false impression that questioners consider them experts. We don't. You are just lucky enough to have travelled more. I like to call those regular people "Fodor-Pin Heads." Having the description of a hotel or place or whatever by fellow travellers is worth more to me than any guidebook description and probably more accurate. This is a good and helpful travel board, everyone is accepted, I hope, and no question is stupid if asked in good faith.

noairs you seem to organise your trip exactly how the regulars suggest (ie, read up on the area yourself, get a general idea of what you want to do & THEN ask questions) so whats the problem? The issue is people who offer absolutely nothing regarding what they want to get out of travel or what they are interested in seeing & then expect to get a full itinerary in reply - I'm with Elvira: a trip overseas is to big an investment to take so lightly by passing on the responsibility of organising it to someone who knows nothing aout you & is not a paid professional.

Fodors <BR> <BR>xxx says "a handful of regular fodorites have the false impression that questioners consider them experts. We don't." I have the impression that some questioners consider me an expert. I gain that impression because that's what they write, repeatedly and embarassingly. My impresson is correct: their view is in error. I've simply travelled more, and have thus become a Fodor thickhead. <BR> <BR>More generally, for places in central Europe that I go to fairly often, and for London and Children's Paris, I keep on disc annotated lists of good websites for travel notes and travel links, and if people ask "What is Bulgaria like ?" it is no effort to send them a list of sites to start them off, and to invite them to write again after reading those sites. My readership for central Europe is almost wholly on Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree branch for East and Central Europe. Fodors forum readers seem to go mostly to the places they went to before the Berlin Wall came down. Retired travellers or others amongst you may have the time to draw up similar lists for Western Europe, for the same purpose for Fodorites. An annotated list of sites takes about a year to draw up, if you gather it from favourable recommendations on the fora. <BR> <BR>Such lists of websites give a newcomer somewhere to start, without the cost or trouble of buying or borrowing a book, and lets you imply with courtesy to the newcomer what much of this corresspondence is rightly saying: the question "What is Bulgaria like ?" is hard to answer. <BR> <BR>Please write if I can comment further, or can help start you on a web sites list for a couple of favourite countries. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR> <BR>

So is it worthy to ask questions here? <BR> <BR>I travel extensively and need to decide where to go in November. <BR>Morocco -is it worthy and in November? <BR>Egypt- is it worthy and how is weather in November? <BR>Where would you go in November? I am open to suggestions. <BR> <BR>So do you think I should go and buy all guidebooks before I decide? <BR>I talk to other travelers first and research this board. Then I decide, buy guidebooks, read them and ask questions here. <BR>

I agree with PP. For the past 3 years we've taken 10-15 trips per year, mostly around Europe. Trying to plan so many trips at once can be overwhelming and it helps when I can post a general question about a place to get some general opinions which might help me decide if it's worth pursuing. Most of my trips are NOT overseas since I live in Europe and aren't BIG investments, as one poster said. I live in Germany and can't just bop down to the corner bookstore for English travel books. Even if I could, I probably wouldn't buy books for every place that has crossed my mind. It seems to me that some of y'all are being rather narrow minded and judgemental and think everyone else here is in the same situation you are and therefore should act the same as you. Please keep in mind that you have no idea who these posters are, where they live, how much they travel or don't and why they want your advice (which you don't have to give if you feel their questions aren't worthy). Ok, I'm off my soapbox now.

I've answered a goodly share of "I don't know where to start" questions, and this thread seems to have started as one form of backlash - - a complaint against using this forum of "first resort" - - and now it has taken on another dimension - - protesting those who have this - - or any other similar pet peeves. <BR> <BR>It is indeed okay to use this forum as a "first resort", but there is very likely a MUCH better place to start - - and it is NOT a book store - - it's your local (public) LIBRARY. <BR> <BR>You don't HAVE TO love reading travel books to use this site, but you might do well to recognize that many of "us" who answer a lot of questions DO love books - - and we'd like to share what those books can do to open up your horizons and tell you about all the wonderful places Europe has waiting for you. <BR> <BR>I do NOT recommend, as sullivan posts as the "first suggestion" that you BUY any guidebook(s) until you have browsed a dozen or so first. Of course, you can spend a few hours in a book store too, but I recommend looking at a dozen or so guidebooks in the library, then check out 4-6 of them, and spend a solid hour with each book you check out. When you find a book you like really well, read it cover to cover. BUYing a guidebook can come MUCH later, when you need more up-to-date information - - keeping in mind that guidebooks are often 6-12 months out of date when they are "new releases", and often 1-2 years past their new release date when you discover them. <BR> <BR>As for those that are peeved at "us regulars", well, you have as much right to complain as we do. I for one, will try to listen, and keep providing useful answers to those who stumble in here, not knowing where to start. <BR> <BR>Fodors could go a long way towards improving this forum by providing a better, more welcoming, set of guidelines, like how to ask your first question here, how to phrase your question's "header" here, how to search this forum, and so on. <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>Rex <BR>

Frankly Sullivan, if you're SO annoyed by someones post, then don't respond to it! <BR> <BR> <BR>Just my 2 cents

Is there any evidence that "sullivan" DOES clutter up the unliked posts by responding to them? I don't think so. <BR> <BR>Started a new post - - which maybe RMC should have done. <BR>

Some people may not have time to go search the library, or easy access to one. Same for book stores. The bottom line really is that this forum is for anyone and everyone, and all can post whatever questions they like. If you don't like their questions, don't respond. Rather than gripe about posts, why not write a friendly post suggesting ways to research for a trip, or ways to post questions effectively or whatever.

Well Rex. Getting to the library is not always such an easy choice. I live in the Adirondacks and the closest library is 27 miles away, has limited hours and only guidbooks there are outdated. For instance,Greece 1997, Rome 1992, Hawaii 1999. Forget about Kenya, Maldives or other far away places. People who buy books for our library do not think there is need for travel guidebooks. I do get to Barnes and Nobles in Burlington once a while. Meanwhile I visit this forum. And I never posted any questions here but I will ask questions about our trip to Amsterdam if that's OK with you Rex and others who have their own way to prepare for a trip and think we all should do their way. <BR>

I'm a regular, but right now I'm too ashamed to be put in that category with those of you who are arrogent enough to think that you can take a forum NOT designed or paid for by you and dictate how one should go about using it. <BR>Rex: You "roll your eyes...?" I suppose your question about "did you get your pin" was much more appropriate and relative to actual travel? Or the false editor's post? That was a wise and well-thought out use of forum space! <BR>Everyone who posts here needs to remember that IT ISN'T OURS!! You can't humiliate people into going away or blackball those who's level of travel or questions fall below what you feel is clever or deep enough to merit an appropriate response. <BR>Elvira--my hat's off to you. You did a great job of moving between both worlds on this particular thread.

I agree with Page. Please everybody read here responses.

No matter WHERE you go in life, there is always a group of people who want "the group" all to themselves. They want it open until they themselves are admitted to the group. Then and ONLY then is it time to close the ranks. Thank goodness for the internet- all of you high school clique-types can't create little snobby clubs. This is an open forum for EVERYONE, like it or not. Do not read post you don't like, and ignore them if you read them accidentially. THE END

Hello All, IMO, B&N has a wonderful travel section, and nice comfy chairs to sit and read the travel guides. I take advantage of their facilities and often "buy" a book I really like. <BR>My experience is, that the more research I do on a upcoming trip, the better the whole experience is for me. <BR>Research+ planning =satisfying time for me! Judy :-)

Those who wonder about "must see's" and whether it's "worth it" should do their own homework. Living in the Adirondacks is no excuse. There are online bookstores and a zillion websites. Apparently Joan's parents never told her to look it up in the dictionary herself. It's no wonder most very broad questions sink to the bottom. Detailed information requested by many inquiries can be found right here in this website. Does whoever wants to know the "best boutique hotel" in Paris think any of the "foderites pathetic snobs" has stayed in each and every one of them recently and has the same preferences as they do? So curious that those with fake names and fake e-mail addresses expect a wealth of responses full of useful information with no effort on their part.

I started a thread today on trip-planning--if you are interested in contributing your expertise, perhaps keeping it near the top of the postings will help newcomers

Also send an e-mail to the tourist office. <BR> <BR>Just the other day I got back a nice package from Wengen-Murren and Saas Fee. The package included hiking and biking maps, hotel information and other information. <BR> <BR>I have purchased a couple of good books on Switzerland hiking. One such book is The Lonely Planets "Walking in Switzerland" <BR> <BR>Of course the Fodors book. <BR> <BR>Then other posters can give their experiences on certain areas. <BR> <BR>Save em to disc for future looks. Print em out and pack em in your travel bags <BR> <BR>Sun( "Travelin' man, love when I can.....These are the memories that make me a wealthy soul", Bob Seeger) Vol <BR> <BR>

Capo and Paige are right-on with their answers to this one.

Some people just aren't research oriented, others are. I did all kinds of searches when I was planning a trip to Paris for my boyfriend's 40th birthday last year - which is how I found this site (and I've been skulking around every since). I found websites, library books, sent away for brochures. I enjoyed doing that. It was a lot of fun, though a little overwhelming in sheer volume of info available, which is probably part of the reason people ask naive or dopey questions. They're just fishing for info on yet another resource. Sometimes the wording of a question isn't specific enough to suit people here - so what. Pass it by. Or if you're in the mood to answer "is XXX worth it?", then give your opinion freely and without strings. I doubt the queriers take this as seriously as some of the responders. I can't bring myself to believe that these people would plan a trip based soley on the opinions and info they get here. As Elvira noted on another thread (regarding gratitude), it's a website - "cast your bread upon the waters" (or your pearls before swine if you will!). Maybe somebody will find your info useful. Maybe not. Maybe it will benefit future posters. Those of you who want everything orderly and perfectly worded and undying gratitude need to get out more. Don't be a bunch of geeks!

Perhaps sullivan really is as cranky as some of you are accusing him/her of being. but I think it's a fair point. The problem with asking a general question prior to doing at least a little research is that the people who could best help you are exhausted by answering the same generic questions again and again, and are likely to pass you by. It's in each of our own best interests to ask questions in a manner that is more likely to get a response. (by this I DON'T mean being antagonistic or provocative!) <BR> <BR>Clearly there are different points of view on this, however, and different levels of patience. Last night I responded to a young man (he told us so) who was in the early stages of planning a trip. I tried to be very nice as I told him to do some more research and then come back, and I gave some specific suggestions for doing so. However, the two people who responded after me were much more direct, and gave him very concrete recommendations, that I didn't think he was "ready" for. So who am I to say that he didn't do the right thing?

I am new to computers,fumbling along self taught for only a few months and the first thing I noticed about this forum was how incestuous it is. A handful think it is their forum. There are those of us who don't know easy ways. For instance one of your posters taught me to find almost any hotel or village by just typing in.

There is an assumption here that people who ask general questions have not done a lick of research and have not read a guidebook. <BR> <BR>Have you read a guidebook lately? Every place discussed is wonderful, all are worthy of your time, and nothing is overrated or overpriced. A person could read a guidebook on Europe and still be unclear on how to prioritize. That's why this Forum is so valuable -- you usually get honest opinions about things. If someone were to ask me whether Versailles was worth it, I'd give them my opinion on whether it was worth it to me, not a prediction on whether they would find it worthy of their time. <BR> <BR>So when I see a general question, I help if I can and feel like it, and I move along if I can't. But I do find some of the sneering in some of the posts above rather offensive and unnecessarily arrogant.

This is all so interesting, because it seems to imply that there is a 'correct' way to plan for travel vs an 'incorrect'way...hmmmm Certainly I don't think there are correct or incorrect ways to plan travel, or to post messages on this board (short of advertising profanity or spamming). <BR> <BR>I stopped responding to many "Planning my first trip to Europe, what should I see? posts" simply because I had responded to so many in the past that it grew tiresome to type the whole thing over again. <BR> <BR>Certainly I can understand that what is taken as the status quo by many regulars on Internet message boards and on Fodor's in particular.. is an unheard of formality by newcomers.... did I know that all CAPS was taken as shouting until someone told me??? <BR> <BR> <BR>I don't think I agree with Sullivan's idea that before you post you must follow steps A B and C... that is ridiculous, maybe someone comes to this message board as a first resort and never having planned a trip before they have no idea that they might need a guide book or what "brand" of book they should buy etc. etc. <BR> <BR>Luckily next trip, they may know that... and thus be in a position to help pass that practical tip along to the next generation of first time travellers... IMHO... helping one another find the courage to even GO to Europe in the first place.. and offering free advice seems to me to be the objective of this board.... hopefully eventually all these first timers.. these "blank" pages will return from their time abroad with a wider perspective and a handful of their own handy tips.. if that occurs then, again IMHO.. goal achieved <BR>

Just another point in this ongoing turf battle. I did a huge amount of research for my first trip to England in May. I bought several travel books, plus all kinds of online research, I have to say, however, that the best, most up-to-the-minute, and right-on information I got was from all of you on this site. Please don't get stingy with your assistance.

Thanks, Jean. <BR> <BR>And well said, Cindy! When someone asks if someplace is "worth it" what I hear them asking is "did you like it?" <BR> <BR>I'd like to reiterate what I said above, that people who ask questions could assist those here who want to help them by trying to put a little more thought into the questions they ask, by including as much information as possible about the kinds of things are important to them. I think it's a case of getting more out of it if you put a little more into it.

I don't want to be part of a group that would have me as a member.

<BR> <BR>To turn this whole thing around, I am often far more annoyed with the respondents than the questioners. <BR>How many times have you seen someone ask about a hotel---and ask to hear from people who have actually been there? <BR>I recently replied to such a question and found that I was the only one of eight respondents (last time I loked) who actually had first hand knowledge of the place (as requested by the question) <BR> <BR>AH <BR> <BR>