German concentration camps
 

I am wanting to plan a trip to Germany to tour the different concentration camps. Would like to see Auschwitz but do not know where it is. Have heard it is in Poland.

I have been to Dachau, the first concentration camp to be established by the Germans, which is near Munich, Germany and was disappointed. There really wasn't anything there and what was there seemed to be made purely for the tourists. Auschwitz is in Southern Poland, about 40 miles west of Cracow. The Polish name for Auschwitz (which is the German name) is Oswiecim. There really aren't any major western European cities near Auschwitz. It is hundreds of miles from Berlin and Vienna, Austria. I have not been there, but there is a museum at the Auschwitz site. Also, FYI, the concentration camp most people know as Auschwitz was actually three camps. One was Auschwitz, the concentration camp, another was Birkenau, the extermination camp, and a third was Monowitz. I did not survive the Holocaust, I only study it, so please excuse any small errors here. I am reciting this info from memory.

<BR>I took a group of high school students to Dachau (about 30-45 min.from Munich). It was a very moving experience! Don't miss it, it will be worth the time it takes to get there. <BR>

If you can get over to Poland, Auschwitz is well worth the visit. It probably demonstrates the scale and brutality of the Germans' plans better than anywhere else (Mauthausen - near Linz in Austria - didn't have as much impact on me). Auschwitz I has been turned into a museum, with photos, artefacts and stories of what the Germans did to the prisoners during the war. The larger Auschwitz II, about 2 miles from the first camp, is almost as is was left in 1945, and is an eerie place. They are well worth visiting if you get the chance. You can get a bus or a train from Cracow (the journey is 1 1/2 or 1 hr).

I have been to Dachau and Auschwitz. Many of the Nazi camps were bulldozed or burned immediately for sanitary reasons. Fortunately, those two remain. Others, such as Theresienstadt or Bergen-Belsen, live on in memory, marked by ruins or plaques or mass grave sites. Our trip to Dachau back in l976 was difficult because nobody in that town would give us directions despite my elementary German. Finally, a bus driver motioned us aboard and took us within a block. Look for the signs: "KZ." Konzentrazionslager. You will be glad you went. It is a pilgrimage. <BR> <BR>

As you can understand, most of the concentration camps in Europe were destroyed either by the Russians, Americans, Jews and Germans. If you are looking for an actual working concetration camp, you will be out of luck. I like Dachau, not because there was a lot there, but because of its symbolism. It was right in the middle of a German neighborhood. The neighbors said that they thought it was a factory, even though the saw the Jews go in and never come out. If you go to these camps, don't look for an amusement park, take them for what they were.

My son (15 yrs. old) recently studied prejudices, which extended to The Holocaust. Our upcoming trip to Europe will allow us to visit Auschwitz and I can't wait to see his reaction to something he read about. (He said there are people who actually say it it never happened!) <BR>For those who have visited Auschwitz, is there a tour one can take or is this a place one has to get to on his own and walk about. If you took the tour, was it worth it? We recently visited a Holocaust Museum in Michigan and the wealth of information the tour guide offered was a lot more in depth than information we would have gathered just by walking through ourselves. <BR>Thanks for any information!

Your son will be among other teenagers once you arrive at Auschwitz because the Polish government requires all students to go through that camp before receiving their diploma. The tour is self-guided -- the barracks, the dioramas showing how the greater camp worked, the collections of the victims' suitcases, hairbrushes, eyeglasses, toys, kitchen utensils, and the enormous showcases (bigger than boxcars) of human hair shaved from the heads of those about to be gassed and used as insulation on U-boats. Bales and bales of human hair about to be shipped to the yards. Cells where one had no room to stand or to sit; like being buried alive. Row after row after row of photos of those executed in the camp, with their names, date of birth, date of execution. Men and women, half-starved, heads shaved, staring. And you will not (on a quick tour) see the big camp, Birkenau, where death was an industrial procedure; it can be reached by a 20-minute walk, but few go there. It is acres and acres of rusting fences, shacks, the foundations of what were once barracks, and what remain of the gas chambers which were partially destroyed by the Nazis and the Russians. Believe me, after seeing Auschwitz, your son will never believe the nuts who say it never happened. It is too big, too documented, too grim to be a mere stage setting -- it was an industrial death factory.

Michael: If you have the opportunity to visit Dachau do not miss it. There is a very good museum and an exhibit on the roots of anti-semitism in Germany. You can also walk the grounds and get an idea of what went on. Similar to the experience "Arizona" had, when we visited in 1995, we had a hard time getting directions from Germans and some even tried to convinced us not to go and go instead to see other sights (!?). Use the opportunity to learn about tolerance and compassion and the results of the lack of them.

I, too, visited Dachau in 1996. I hesitated to go as after all, I was on vacation, but my brother--in-law pointed out it was history and that is something I was interested in. I am so glad I did not miss the trip. We stumbled upon a tour group of people from a Kibbutz being led by a Czechoslavakian survivor of Dachau. He allowed several of us to butt in on the tour and listen to his stories and personal experiences. He took the time to speak with us individually and allowed us to ask questions. I will never have that opportunity again. Go and learn and embrace the survivors' motto: NEVER AGAIN. <BR>

<BR>I disagree with the above poster who said Theresienstadt <BR>is gone. I spent most of a whole day there in the town and camp a few years ago and have photos to prove it still exists. Actually quite a lot of it is there and in better condition than in many of the remaining camps. Dachau still has quite a bit to see (although the barracks were destroyed after the war). There is a large museum there (text is in German) and the unused gas chamber (they never used this one) and crematorium is there as well as the ditch where they shot men in the back of the neck. The guard towers are there and so is the guards barracks. Sachsenhausen near Berlin also is partly destroyed but still has many things left as witnesses. Mauthausen is almost completely intact and the most moving of all the camps I have seen because of the quarry. Most camps have all text in the museums only in German in these 4 camps. I have never been to Auschwitz but want to go someday.

I went to Auschwitz and Birkenau last November. It was cold, rainy, overcast, and gloomy. The weather seemed to fit the place. At Birkenau you can see the ruins of gas chambers, which in this case were definitely used. It was a cloudy and foggy day, and as far as you could see in any direction, there were chimneys and fences - all that was left of the wooden barracks where the prisoners lived, after the retreating Germans destroyed as much as they could in an attempt to hide eivdence. The November cold drove home the point of how horrible the conditions must have been in the wintertime - it was obvious that the design of the heating "systems" in the barracks was insufficient, as were the thin wooden walls. Brrr. Another smaller concentration camp worth a visit if you're in the area is Terezin, about 45 minutes drive from Prague. A fortress used throughout the years for a number of purposes, it was last used as a prison for jews and dissidents. The city itself was walled off too. One of the most interesting points of the trip was hearing the relative sizes of the Jewish community in Krakow before the war and after the war. I was shocked. I'll let you find out for yourself.

Abe Cohen is correct. It was Buchenwald that I was thinking about, not Theresienstadt. Theresienstadt, for those who do not know or wish to forget, was a "model" camp. Officials of the International Red Cross were paraded through by the supervisors in order to demonstrate the "humane" conditions under which the victims lived. Trainload by trainload, however, these people were transported east, never to return. I understand, as Mr. Cohen says, that it stands today much as it did. Before the war, much of its grounds were part of an old fortress and village. We asked Czech citizens who today live in that area where the camp was located when we were there three years ago. We were met with puzzled looks and shrugs of the shoulders. Hmmm. Terezin is its Czech name; it is in part of the old Sudetenland.

I went to Dachau in 1965 - and I have no idea how we found it, because surely no one was advertising it. There was almost no information, just the voice of the ruins and the ghosts. It haunts me to this day. It is an important human and historical experience not to be missed. I was in Hiroshima on the August anniversary commemoration of the atom bomb in 1962, only 16 years old and one of the few westerners present - another haunting history lesson. <BR> And for those who cannot go, or wish to learn more, I second the suggestion of an earlier writer, that people visit one of the Holocaust memorials. The one in Washington D.C. is nearly overwhelming - parts of it took me right back to Dachau - but I went with 20 students, 5th & 6th graders, and it was an incredible experience for them - they all were interested and impressed, and respectful.

Auschwitz (Oswiecim) is near Cracow (Krakow) South part of Poland - it's a must see. There are many guided tours available from major hotels in Cracow, as well as on site. The easiest is booking a tour from a hotel or check www.orbis-usa.com (orbis is a Polands national travel agency), and you don't have to worry about how to get to this very small town and then to the camp on your own.

Again, for those who may not be able to get to Germany or Poland, the Imperial War Museum in London has an exhibit on Belsen (aka/Begen Belsen). I have seen the PBS stuff and everything the rest of us have on tv etc....but (aside from what a real visit must be like), this was the most heart-rending thing ever. When the allies got to Belsen, they found 60,000 unburied bodies...... <BR> <BR>The Imperial War Museum also has very realistic, affecting exhibits on The Blitz Experience and WWI Trench Warfare. Defintiely worth a visit.

I agree with Marcia who states that if you cannot go to Germany then visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. It was incredibly moving for ages 12-adult. For younger children there is an age appropriate exhibit called "Daniel's Story". Neither should be missed!

<BR>I live less than 20min. from Washington DC. - so I know all about the Holocaust Museum there. It attracts many tourists world-wide - and it's a wonderful museum. It was built to make you feel as if you're inside a concentration camp - with barred windows, brick, and metal everywhere. It's also dark and gloomy - and gives you the precise mood for the occation. Besides that, it's extremely educational - and it's the next best thing to visiting an actual concentration camp. I highly recommend it! For children and adults alike.

I am traveling to Poland, Russia, etc. next month, and want to visit Auschwitz. I've read about the train from Krakow to it, but Rick Steves' guidebook says it is much more difficult to get a train back to Krakow--I'm traveling by myself. Did anyone else have any problems? Or know about the cost of the tours?

We were in Krakow in June and took a bus to Auschwitz. The bus leaves across from train station and costs $2 or 3. The trip takes about 40 minutes and you can get off right by the museum. There are two sites, Auschwitz and Birkenau, and you should take time to see both - you can walk (about 1.5 miles) or take the shuttle, which goes about every 2 hours or so. We have been to Dachau too, but Auchwitz/Birkenau is bigger, more interperative and a true memorial to the Polish people. See the movie before you go in - costs 50 cents. Lots of different museums, one for every country or two. The Polish one is a need to see. Hitler actually started to eliminate the Poles first.

Do not forget to read one of the great books on the concentration camps befor you go. The accounts of Corrie ten Boom are great, of one of Victor Frankls psychology books. He wrote these from what he learned about humans in the concentration camps. <BR> <BR>I stayed with Germans when I said that I wanted to visit Dachau and was met by silence. The Germans prefer to forget the world war and wants the rest of teh world to forget as well. I can understand that they do not want to give directions. <BR> <BR>

<BR>Dear Mr Sawyer, <BR> <BR>May I add a few footnotes to this long and interesting correspondence ? <BR> <BR>I think nobody's told you where Terezin is. It's 68 kilometers north of Prague, and can be reached by slow trains on the line towards Dresden. <BR> <BR>I don't think Jews destroyed any camps. Mostly, allied armies did. When the British reached Bergen-Belsen they were horrified: English sergeants with four years war behind them paused to vomit. <BR> <BR>The trip to Ausschwitz is long, but worth while. If you sleep well on trains, you might like to take a sleeping car from Berlin Lichtenberg at 2120, or from Dresden main station at 2240, and arrive in Krakow next morning. (If you want notes on night trips Dachau, Munich, Berlin, Sachsenhausen, or Dachau, Munich, Prague, Terezin, please tell me). <BR> <BR>As others have said, Krakow is one of the great cities of Europe, and is beautiful. I think you should take the bus to Auschwitz, not go on a tour. In the entry hall they sell good, and cheap, handbooks in many languages. there are rooms where all you want is silence, and the love of God. In a more practical vein, it is embarrassing to weep in the middle of a tour group. <BR>. <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR>

Actually, while the Jews did not destroy any camps entirely, they did blow up acrematoria, at Auschwitz, I believe. Before you go, you should also get your hands on any book by Arnost Lustig. He is a professor of Holocaust film and literature at American University in Washington, DC. He escaped from several concentration camps, including the ghetto at Theresienstadt. His books will surely prepare you for your visit as well as give you some excellent background information.

I recently finished a book titled "The Last Survivor: In Search of Martin Zaidenstadt" written by an Austrian journalist called Timothy W. Ryback. If you have visited Dachau, you may have seen, even talk to Mr. Zaidenstadt. The book narrates some of the impressions Mr. Ryback had about present day Dachausers and how they deal with the sad notoriety of their town. The framework for this account is a Dachau survivor (Mr. Zaidenstadt), who has made it a crusade to go to Dachau every day and talk to people about what went on during the holocaust/Nazi Germany regime. <BR> <BR>Highly recommend this book for potential visitors. Although a bit disturbing at times, it is an absorbing book that should augment the experience when visiting the actual site. <BR> <BR>Phil, I hope this recommendation helps.

Just as I'm about to leave this forum because of the dreck (see "What most irritates") a few wonderful, insightful people contribute. My wife and I walked Mauthausen on a lovely, sunny day and we cried.

I was told not to visit Dachau at the end of my trip because it can be depressing and a vacation should end on a high note. I was also told that there is still the smell of death that is hard to get out of ones mind and that I should put something like vicks on my nose so that I don't smell anything. Is this true? I can't imagine. Makes me not want to visit Dachau although I would like to.

Judy, you have been misinformed. There is no smell at Dachau other than the industrious effort made by Germans to sanitize the place, tidy up their past, and give the impression that it was like a rest camp for miscreants.

I've been to Dachau twice and agree with most of the posters. It is definitely worth going to, definitely depressing,yet a bit sanitized. The Germans in town seemed quite embarrassed by the fact that it remains. My first time there was on a German holiday and the buses don't run as often from the train station so be careful...it's quite a ways to hoof it. I suggest first going to the administration building which is now a museum and seeing the short film. This will give you more perspective as you walk around camp. After returning from Germany, please go to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. I found this to be more educational, thought provoking and emotional, but I appreciated it even more after seeing the actual camp.

Must add my 2 cents (and a question) to this very sobering post. We stopped by Mauthausen purely on impulse as we drove down the A1 2 years ago. It was quite possibly the most intense and meaningful experience I've had in travelling the world. Walking into the actual gas chambers, peering into the ovens, pictures affixed to these structures of camp victims being exterminated right there 50 years previous. <BR>I wasn't alive when these atrocities took place. Travelling, for me, is enjoyable mostly because it lets me experience life as others live it, to see the world from a different perspective and broaden my view of what is meaningful to others. The concentration camp experience is very powerful on many levels. <BR> <BR>We went on from there to Munich to have dinner with friends (she, from the US, her husband a native of Berlin and in his 60's). I asked, trying to be as delicate as possible, what is taught in the German school system about the Holocaust. The silence was eerie and uncomfortable as he, a consummate conversationalist and nearly nonstop talker, searched. Obviously this is not discussed much in Germany. I didn't get much of an answer and have been troubled by and curious about this ever since. I understand the shame/guilt/embarrassment that must accompany these issues...that's not the point. The unwillingness to discuss it, however, even 50 years later is difficult for me to understand. Openly discussing these issues, especially in the school system, would seem to me to be valuable, almost necessary, to insure that such circumstances never occur again. Does this not happen in Germany? Anyone out there with an insider's opinion?

Gardener--- I have experienced the same conspicuous silence when bringing the subject with members of the younger German generation. As a matter of fact, I received a very stern " I do not wish to talk about it" from, what I considered a good German friend, when I asked her about the movie "Saving Private Ryan"!. <BR> <BR>I agree with you. Not talking about it or wiping any evidence for future generations only guarantees a resurgence giving some time. Last January's elections in Austria may be the best example at hand.

It would be great if someone who is a recent graduate of the German education system could answer this question. It would be interesting to know just what is taught about this. Officially, Germany seems very intent on ensuring that it doesn't happen again, in that it has very strict laws against almost anything invoking Nazism. However, it would seem that the best way is to educate people about these issues. From what I know about Germany, I think there are two thoughts in the country about this: (1) to admit we were wrong and move on and (2) to maintain a vigilant stance against extremism and never forget what happened. I don't want to start an argument on this, but similar things have happened in other countries. Japan has had a very hard time determining how to deal with its "war guilt," for example. Also, in the U.S. there are those who say we must never forget slavery and segregation, while others say those days are over, so lets move on to other issues. If you look at the magnitude of Nazi Germany's actions, you can understand the difficulty of accepting the responsibility and in trying to move past those times. The Holocaust was the most obvious wrong, but what about the millions of soldiers and non-Jewish civilians who died all over Europe trying to defeat Germany's unrelenting expansion. The Soviet Union alone lost millions.

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I was in Dachau in 1968 and I agree that it was a very emotional and very worthwhile experience. Are you all aware that Stalin murdered even more people in the Soviet Union during the 40's and 50's. This can happen again unless we are vigilant. Look at the all the imbeciles here in this country with their hate groups. <BR>Germany had the best record of treatment of the Jewish people in the world until Hitler. The French had a record of persecution in the 20's. Have any of you read the Dreyfus affair. <BR>Hitler build the SS by going to small towns and recruiting the bullies. <BR>I plan on visiting Auschwitz when I go to Poland in either 1 or 3 years. <BR>For a good book on the time in Hungary read John Bierman's RIGHTEOUS GENTILE about Raoul Wallenberg who saved many Jewish people in Budapest. <BR> <BR>

I hate going on organized tours, but in Krakow this summer the hotel really talked us into taking an organized tour to Auschwitz rather than winging it on our own. I am so glad. It cost about $20 each and laster almost all day. We had an excellent tour "leader" who gave us some background on the bus, but ushered us into the movie, and then turned us over to a local guide who was extremely thourough and knowledgeable. We had extra time to go back and see anything again if we wanted to, and then we were taken to Birkenau with another full guided tour. This tour only took up to 18 people so not a bad size. It was not only a very moving day, but one I will never forget. I know that I could not have gotten half so much out of it if we had been on our own. Incidentally we talked to people in Krakow who got stuck at Auschwitz the day before when the last train of the day back to Krakow never showed up. This is not an unknown experience in Poland. They found a hotel and spent the night with all their stuff in the hotel in Krakow.

I thought it was worth mentioning Treblinka. Do not expect it to be like Dachau or Auschwitz-Birkenau, as it was completely destroyed. But it is a profoundly moving place. I did not go to Majdanek, but apparently that is well preserved. It is difficult to write on a forum like this without it sounding like some tasteless or macabre form of tourism, but believe me these places tell you more than a thousand books will ever do. Although Dachau is a shocking place, in my view only a visit to one of the Polish camps gives you a true idea of the scale of what happened.

Auschwitz is the German name for the small Polish town Oseviciem (or something like that), located 12km south of Katowice, and some more distance southwest of Krakow. The museum is fantastic, if such a word can be used for such a place. After that visit things will never be the same. <BR>I visited the museum in 1983, combined with a trip to Checkoslovakia. Going from Krakow via Zakopane/Tatry mountains in Poland/check was a nice and interesting trip <BR>Bjorn

My father was in the military and we were assigned to a post in England from 1951 to 53, when I was about 6 years old. Before being rotated back to the States we spent a month touring Europe, including visiting Dachau, which at that time had not yet been turned into the memorial site it is today. Even though I do not remember much of that trip, I remember clearly my father asking directions and being deliberately misled by the locals who were understandably ashamed of what had happened there. <BR> <BR>I visited Dachau again, some 40 years later, and had a disturbing succession of "flashbacks" when I came upon places that I subliminally remembered from my earlier trip. I would walk along not recognizing anything, then literally take only another step and the scene would snap into focus and I knew I had stood on the exact same spot 40 years earlier. This was a very emotional experience that I have trouble writing about even now, several years later. <BR> <BR>As someone alluded to above, Dachau was not one of the true "death camps" such as Auschwitz, though certainly many were murdered there and countless other horrible acts were performed. Disturbing though the experience may be, I wish everyone could visit these camps, lest we too easily forget and allow it to happen again.

If you go to Auschwitz, I recommend taking a tour. We didn't. We took a bus out there which was very cheap and then walked around on our own. I had read a lot about it but I overheard some tours which gave a lot more info. Birkenau is about 2 miles away, and you'll be walking on the side of a small highway. From Auschwitz it wasn't clear which way to start walking. The shuttle bus is only convenient if you happen to be ready to leave when it does, which is not very often. We took a taxi (there was only 1 waiting). Birkenau is huge and very disturbing. Again, to get back to Auschwitz where the bus comes you either have to walk or be lucky enough to catch the shuttle. Our taxi driver was still there so we lucked out. We were there in June and the last bus was around 6pm and I don't know about the trains. I would recommend to anyone to take an organized tour and save yourself the transportation troubles. I definitely recommend going to Auschwitz but be prepared for an emotional day. The rooms of hair, luggage and shoes are very difficult.

I will say that although Auschwitz is often seen as the most important of the death camps to see, I was much more affected by Majdanek, which is right outside of Lublin, Poland, in the south-east. It is very well preserved, adn not so touristy as Auschwitz. If you take a train to Krakow, and take a bus or train to Auschwitz, you can take a train to Lublin also, and stop at Majdanek. One thing I base my preference on is that I cried at Majdanek - but not at Auschwitz. The "bunkers" (I'm not sure of the name for the buildings on the compounds) all have tile floor at Auschwitz, adn new walls and all that because of the high volume of tourists - Majdanek, on the other hand, had the original bunkers, with beds still in some of them, and some open for visitors to walk around in. The crematoria and gas chambers are open, and so powerful - I didn't know what to make of it all, but it really affected me. The most powerful aspect of Majdanek, though, is the dome at the back of the compound - it holds the ashes of the Polish and Jewish and other nationality people that were killed there. As morbid as it sounds, seeing a gigantic mound of greyish ash in front of you makes you think about not only the suffering of these people, but of your own life and how much pain you bring to others. Wow, this turned out to be a long reply - I just feel that it is important to see Majdanek adn Auschwitz, if time allows. Have a good trip.

I forgot to mention that if you go to a camp in Poland, and especially Majdanek, to read the part in James Mitchner's Poland about the camp - it is so well written, that it brings it all to life.