"If English speakers had called them 'toads' even if they ate toads' legs, they might not have liked it as much."

One of my favourite Frog baiting techniques is to refuse to distinguish between frogs and toads, similarly for slugs and snails"

"C'est la même bête!"

Drives em spare!

No one really knows for sure why we call 'em frogs do they? Also that thing about the v-sign being from Agincourt is pony too.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Where did the v sign come from then?

It's another one that's lost in the mists of time....

I know the v sign/Agincourt story, but I know our audacious chum will tell it much better....

The story is that the French prior to Agincourt announced that every English (or more likely welsh) archer captured would have the first two fingers of their right hand cut off so they could no longer use the feared English long-bow.

So as a show of defiance the English waved there two fingers in a v-sign to insult the French.

It has no been adopted as the physical way to instruct someone to combine travel with sexual intercourse.

The thing is; sadly, it's complete bollocks. Back then the opposition just killed ordinary soldiers. They ransomed the nobles, but johnny six-meads just got bumped off.

No one actually knows where it comes from.

On frogs:

One possibility for the frogs thing is that paris used to be surrounded by marsh. Thus those sophisticated urban types referred to those beyond the city walls contemptously as "frogs" and it sort of stuck.

Again no one really knows. But we've been calling the frogs frogs since 1415* and we aint about to stop now.

*note to the septics: This doesn't mean a quarter past two!

History's a wonderful thing - you should try it!

The frog goes back to Clovis ,King of the Franks, who established Paris. It was his royal symbol which evolved into the Fleur de Lys...well that's according to Google.

so is hystery

I find the entire discussion Ribetting.

((H))

And if a frog had four legs he wouldn't bump his ass on the ground (Bobby Knight)

As I indicated in a previous discussion on this very same topic, I cannot speak for French living in France. However, if you ever come to Montreal, Québec or any other city within the province of Québec and call a francophone a "frog", I surely hope you can either

a) run fast; or
b) are able to handle a fight

Honestly, don't even try it as a joke.

The frog goes back to Clovis ,King of the Franks, who established Paris. It was his royal symbol which evolved into the Fleur de Lys...well that's according to Google.>>>>>

Again it's another good story, and again it's bollocks.

Clovis et al were around in the 500s and the insult isn't that old.

Also the Fleur de Lys is a lily.

No one has the foggiest really.

did you mean no one has the froggiest :)

People in Quebec perhaps suffer from the same pathological hypersensitivity that afflicts so many Americans. The French themselves (the real French, not French-Canadians) don't really care much about being called frogs.

If the French find something objectionable, rest assured, they'll tell you about it. In the meantime, they don't need anyone to defend them from imaginary insults.

It's not a pathology, Anthony, it's history.

Until de 1970s or so, English speaking people ruled as the leading economic class in Montreal and controled finance and business. It lead to curious situations where, at Eatons' for example, a French employee had to address a French customer in English.

English people used to call us Frogs and it sticked to these days.

So, as I said, I cannot speak for French living in France but don't use it while visiting the province of Québec.

In Toronto, though, they will still find it funny....

LOL cigale..
This is wonderful, please, continue.

Girlspytravel: "my response is, context is everything". Your "context" is very different from Kerouac's, not "better", not "more informed, not "true", just different. He/she (Kerouac) appears to be comfortable and accepting of this, perhaps you should be as well. Vive la difference!

So true. My reality is not his. and maybe my friends are more sensitive .
The same with my family, if anyone called them wops(born in Italy)
that would be totally unacceptable.

I hear they're hopping mad.

Seriously, if you're going to get upset at every offensive thing the bloody Sassenachs spout out, you're not going to have any time to enjoy yourself. Let the friggin' Poms have their "frogs" and "septics", and smell the roses.

THE BRITISH BULLSHIT FOUNDATION

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