French white wine question
 

I'm planning a dinner out that includes a glass of wine in the fixed price menu. The choices are a merlot (Chateau St Chinian Merlot VDP d'Oc 2006), which I know is red, and this:

Domaine St Jean Conques VDP d'Oc 2005

I'm assuming this is white, but can anyone verify this?

Also, one of the desserts is a hot chocolate mousse. What do you think this is?

I am thinking it is also red but that is only a guess.

They are both from the Languedoc but you probably know that...

hi, joe,

i eventually tracked it down via a french web-site - my poor french suggested it's a white which would make sense as the restaurant concerned is offering a choice. [why not check with them?]

I'm not familiar with hot choc mousse, but I assum anything associated with raymond blanc will be good.

regards, ann

wow. stumped me on this one. I knew VDP, which like ekscrunchy mentioned, included Languedoc-Roussillon, parts of the southern Rhone and Provence. VDP is like a country wine and not an appellations controlees.

Vin de Pays D'Oc, if its white, could be a Sav Blanc, Chardonnay, Marsanne or Viogner.

eRobertparker was of no help either with these producers.

So I have now idea either but anxious to find out the answer. I'm still looking though.....

These are both Vin du pays (VDP), or "country wines", which is the lowest level of classification, from anywhere in the very large Languedoc-Roussillon region. Not necessarily bad wine, just not from a more exclusive regional appellation.

Domaine St. Jean de Conques (note the missing word) is in the AOC St-Chinian, which is a more exclusive part of the Languedoc, which suggests this is a second wine of theirs, or perhaps wine from grapes not approved as part of the AOC -- such as Merlot (I believe St-Chinian can only be made from Mourvedre, Grenache, or Syrah). Any Merlot from here is probably wine-lake wine, made in industrial quantities to feed the now-bust Merlot boom of a few years ago. If it's Syrah, it may just be made outside the boundaries.

Or perhaps it's a white; the St-Chinian AOC is red, so this could be their white from the same area, not allowed to carry the St-Chinian name. But I think the whites carry the name of the variety, as in "Chardonnay VDP d'OC". I don't think they grow any other white grapes there.

In short, you need more information to be able to tell.

It's not in Winespectator online, so it must be a local wine.

Most googling tends to move it towards being a merlot.

Looks like you're planning a visit to
Brasserie Blanc.

Well, I'm wrong -- there are more white varieties grown. But I think the absence of a grape variety means that it's a blend -- but it could be a white Chardonnay-Viognier blend, or a red Cabernet Sauvignon-Merlot blend. So no help there. You're going to have to ask them, I think. The fact that there's a fish option suggests white, doesn't it?

That's a wine served in the Uk at Raymond Blanc's restos, maybe a Brit can answer.

Thanks for the tips. Yes, I am planning at Brasserie Blanc.

I've looked on their website and found that the house wines are:

Colombard Sauvignon, Bouey, Vin de Pays
Merlot Cabernet, Bouey, Vin de Pays

so this is probably what they are. Merely just wondering about the white and red, but you would think they would offer one of each.

Domaine St Jean Conques

Here's an extract from a Web page about Domaine St Jean Conques:

"A découvrir également, un vin de pays blanc d'une belle élégance. A base de Rolle et de Colombard, un joli blanc aux délicates notes florales avec un superbe équilibre gras/ acidité."

The domaine mainly produces red, which is consistently in the Hachette wine guide, a good sign. But probably it's the wine above the restaurant is offering, as suggested in previous posts. Two reds would not make sense. Sounds like a nice white, a blend.

Restaurants often propose two wines of the same color -- just like the choice between a Burgundy and a Bordeaux. It mostly depends on what is on the menu. If you were eating beef, it would be extremely unlikely to be offered white wine (unless the place caters to foreigners and has thrown in the towel on the subject of respecting any tradition); just as red wine would be quite unusual with fish.

"The fact that there's a fish option suggests white, doesn't it?"

Yes, it does.

For the definitive answer:

01865 510999

Omit the 01865 from a landline in Oxford.

They know. We don't.

I think hot chocolate mousse would be like the fondant au chocolat, a warm chocolate cake with a liquid centre. I have a Raymond Blanc recipe for this, so that's probably it.

Can somebody tell me ? I thought the (mis-)use of the word "entrée" to mean main dish was American(perhpas Canadian too?) but the menu on this Oxford restaurant site uses "entrées" for main dish. Is this not only American but general English/American use?

It's not an American misuse.

Menus from the mid-19th century to WW1, both in France and in Britain, often used the term "entrée" to describe dishes after the hors d'oeuvre, soup and fish, but before the roasts.

Our copy of Saulnier's Repertoire de la Cuisine (bought and printed early 1970s) uses the term for all substantial meat or offal dishes.

True, post WW2, the French started to use the term almost as a synonym for starter, and many British decided the Americans (who settled on it as a poncey word for main course) had got it wrong. So it's rarely used in Britain, and when it is, it's usually used the modern French way. Most countries outside the English-speaking world don't do this fake French nonsense at all, categorise menus as "Primi", "Secondi" or whatever and the issue doesn't arise.

I'm sure I've seen Blanc's usage elsewhere in Britain, but from posh cooks it's self-conscious pedantry (I think Larousse Gastronomique uses the old terminology too), rather than unthinking adoption of an Americanism.

Interesing. Thank you for sharing the information.

Hi Flanner,

I don't think we know where the OP is dining.

Reread, and yes, you're right, we do. I apologize. Good idea! Call them. And I'll wager a bottle of Domaine St Jean Conques VDP d'Oc 2005 that it's the white that Raymond Blanc is proposing. Kerouac has it right. No Frenchman is going to marry fish with a red.

I will contact them to ask. I've been asking them a million questions, so I kind of wanted to stop harrassing them plus not appear stupid by not knowing a wine. But it does sound confusing. I'll get back to you with the response.

You can relax. Don't need to know every details beforehand. Or is it just me ?

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a red. This is from St. Chinian country also.

"No Frenchman is going to marry fish with a red."

Doesn't it depend on the fish? Wild salmon works very well with some reds; usually sommeliers recommend a red to me for salmon, I've never had a white recommended.

This is a nice list with specific wine suggestions for specific fish dishes:
http://www.stratsplace.com/rogov/what_wine_fish.html

Reds are recommended for non-smoked salmon and tuna.

I drink red with salmon on a plane -- the whites are usually so ghastly in flight.

I thought pinot noir was the classic wine for salmon.

I'm sort of in the camp, "why are you so worried about a glass of wine". It will depend on what you order--maybe. You CAN ask when you are ordering--"blanc or rouge?".

Standing by.

I often drink a light slightly chilled - frais - red with fish, in the summer.

Gretchen has it right. Why don't you simply ask the waiter? It's not as though you are trying to choose between premiers crus. Same goes for the dessert; just ask the waiter before you order.

I am planning a party and need to order everything 2 days before. And some friends only drink white wine, so if the offers are both red they won't be happy.

I'm sure Monsieur Bllancs cellar has a white wine in it somewhere.

The problem is that the name you have give is the Domaine only - and it is St. Jean DE Conques. It tells us nothing about the wine itself. It might well be a white.

In any event, rest assured the restaurant will have a house red AND a house white.

That explains it. I'm sure that the restaurant will be happy to help you in making your choices.

thanks for everyone's help. It will work out just fine. I was merely curious as I had never heard of the Conques grape and got confused, though it isn't really a grape so there is no information. I will call tonight when the open to get the info.

IF Domaine St Jean Conques VDP is also red by chance, you could ask the restaurnat to provide inexpensive house white for those who don't drink red at the price of "Dine with Wine" price. Since this is a group, I think they will likely to oblige. I undersand from another thread you are a student. Are the party participants all students ?

Thanks for the thought. I had not considered it. Yes, all students.

Good luck and enjoy.

hi, Joe,

Dave in Paris obviously found the same web-site as me, and concluded it's a white - "vin de pays blanc" is a rather large clue!!!!

i agree that a restaurant of this standard wil be pleased to assist if any of the choices, wine or food, need to be changed.

as for reds with fish, many restaurants on the loire would recommend one of the lighter loire reds with fish - pike for example.

hope the dinner goes off well,

regards, ann

It's a white wine blend. The receptionist wasn't sure what the blend was of. I asked but then told her never mind when she said she'd have to check. Anyway, good to know.

Didn't have the heard to ask about the mousse, but it seems chocolaty and the best option for me out of poached apricots and crepes suzette.

Thanks for the help.

hi, joe,

hope you have a great time.

let us have a quick review? [especailly of the wine!]

regards, ann