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French Speaking Tips???
I am trying to learn as much French as possible for my upcoming trip. I already know around 200 words and am getting a decent handle on the accent. <BR><BR>I am curious though about what is customary as far as addressing people formally vs. informally. Also, how often do people really address others using sir or maam? In the US we use so much slang! Are the French really that polite? <BR><BR>I'm going to Paris, do not know anyone there, and although I hear most poeple speak English I would rather try to do my best to get along "French style".<BR>Any tips would be greatly appreciated. <BR>FYI -I am using just about every available method and try to spend 2 hours each day learning this new language. It will be tough at first, I'm sure, as I'm a little shy and my husband is usually the socializer. <BR>
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Do I smell a troll???????
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What are you talking about Hugo? I've been posting here asking questions for my upcoming trip for a couple of weeks now. <BR>What about this question seems odd?
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In general, the French reserve the "vous" for most near anyone but a friend or family member. <BR><BR>In Spanish, it's now more relaxed, and it's possible to tutear your way across a country with no problem. However, you should still mind your "usteds", when they are appropriate and necessary.<BR><BR>Is that what you meant? Quelques unes/uns, alguno/as otros? <BR><BR>Kalena
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On the whole, the more polite you are (i.e. formal), the better reception and service you are likely to get!! Though when chatting informally, many people use slang or colloquialisms, you are unlikely to come across these in your dealings with service staff, shop keepers, etc. <BR>A few basics: when entering a shop, you will probably be greeted by the shopkeeper with a "bonjour", to which you should reply. On leaving, whether or not you have bought anything, they will usually bid you goodbye ("au revoir"). Some people will say "bonjour monsieur", although it is not rude to omit the monsieur/madame part. If you want to ask a stranger a question (directions, etc), start with "Excusez-moi Monsieur/madame".<BR>A more polite version of "merci" is "je vous remercie". <BR>If you are aware of these basics, and say it all with a smile, I'm sure you'll get a great reception from the supposedly frosty Parisians!
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I love the expression 'je suis desole' (doesn't look right without the accents): it means 'I'm very sorry' (as in 'I'm very sorry, but it's not possible' rather than 'I'm very sorry I stepped on your foot'), but to English-speakers it feels like 'I am desolate' which is a wonderfully dramatic way of expressing remorse.
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> dramatic way of expressing ...<BR><BR>I thought of another basic expression "J'ai faim" (I'm hungry). Faim reminds me of famine (obviously of the same origine). I couldn't undestand at first why you can say "J'ai TRES faim" (I'm VERY hungry.). For me "faim" is a noun and cannot be modified by an adverb "tres". The same goes with "J'ai soif"(I'm thirsty), etc. This is an analogy from my basic understanding of English (I'm an Asian). If I had leaned French first, possibly I would have found many English expressions funny.<BR><BR>Sorry Quinty, this was rather off topic.
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You will find older French people, on entering a room full of other people (ie strangers) will say "messieurs dames" (gentlemen and ladies). It's just an old fashioned courtesy, an acknowledgement of the other people.
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Just came to my mind. Try the following expression if you gets an occasion at e.g. a brasserie. "J'ai une faim de loup", literally meaning I have hunger of wolf or "Je creve de faim", I'm dying of hunger. Figurative expressions that you might use, of course if you are really hungry - or want to be humoristic.
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Another usefull expression is "s'il vous plait, repetez plus lentement" = please repeat more slowly. Most of the time you can make yourself understood, it's the understanding the response,especially when said quickly, that is the problem. Also, unless things have changed, it is considered impolite to "share" or just order an hors d'oeuvre in a full menu restaurant.
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Greetings--Plan on using the vous form exclusively at this stage of the game, unless you are speaking to children. Also the expressions involving hunger are not ones I would suggest for use in a restaurant with a 200 word vocabulary--they are more informally conversational--Parisian waiters tend to be on the all business side.<BR><BR>Add "Vous etes gentille" to your list and every time a French person helps you in any way, add it after your merci--they do appreciate being appreciated.<BR><BR>Have a great trip--I think you will be quite pleased to have prepared yourself for the language--it adds so much to the experience.<BR><BR>Bon sejour.<BR>Robyn France
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Make sure you address whomever you do business with as a person first before getting to the transaction. Always open with a "Bonjour Madame" for example. When I had been there only a few days this simple courtesy seemed so natural that it really stood out when I was waiting in line for tickets behind a man who approached the counter and simply said "deux billets", although I am certain he didn't mean to be rude, it did seem abrupt.
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Hi Hike,<BR><BR>I really am no expert but in the spirit of helping to clear up your confusion, I don't think hungry or thirsty are nouns. Because I was interested, I did some research on the internet, and I think in your example happy is a predicate adjective. It is normally an adjective, as in "the happy girl," but when it follows a linking verb such as "am" and describes the subject ('I") it is called a predicate adjective. I know I should get a life, and I definetly should not be an accountant!
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>..the expressions involving hunger are not ones I would suggest for use in a restaurant with a 200 word vocabulary..<BR><BR>I understand what Robyn means but from another thread, I understand Quinty will be visiting France in 2006! (if I'm not mistaken.) In 4 years, her vocaburary will be, what? 2000 or 4000? in any case, it is interesting to know these (funny to me) expressions when you are learning a language.<BR><BR>> Vous etes "gentille"<BR>Gentille is a feminin form so if the helper is a man you can't say that except you say it on purpose :). You would have to tell him "vous etes gentil" and the pronouciation isn't the same. An alternative : "C'est gentil". This is neutral hence can be used for both.
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For fun, my friend told me to learn this: "La seule phrase que je peut dire en francais est celle-ci." ("The only phrase I can say in French is this one"). Probably not perfect grammar, but whatthehey, just a joke.<BR><BR>Strongly recommend, Quinty, that you find a native French speaker for your 2 hrs. a day and talk with her/him -- maybe a student. Even if the person is Canadian or Haitian, you'll pick up a little fluency in HEARING spoken French, which is much harder than learning to SPEAK French. <BR><BR>The first hurdle is to get used to hearing French and scrambling to put together a sentence with what you know (you almost never get to use a sentence you've actually memorized). After that, refinements like accent and politesse are much easier to pick up. <BR><BR>If you can find a French speaker, you might want to write out a couple of situations you expect to encounter and then ask her/him to "role play" with you, improvising in French.<BR><BR>Having said that, everyone's comments that you should stick to "Vous" forms and stay away from "tu/toi" forms are absolutely accurate. Unless you have a lot of time, I wouldn't confuse myself with learning 2nd person singular/familiar at all. Too easy to make a mistake. And yes, use "monsieur, madame, m'd'moiselle" whenever possible.<BR>
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I had to laugh at Je suis desole. On my visit to France and Switzerland two years ago, I think I said that phrase 5 times a day. On one occasion, I think it kept us from being kicked out of a restaurant in Switzerland. It was one of the buffet style restaurants where your food price is based on weight. My 11 year old daughter saw people helping themselves and she took a heaping plate full of semi frozen raspberries. I didn't know what to do. She couldn't eat them all,nor could we if we tried. It probably would have cost $20 for the plate. I put the plate down, and looked around for help. A waitress came to me very angry. I don't know too much french, but said "Je suis desole" and pointed to my daughter. She took the plate and said okay.
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>"La seule phrase que je peut dire en francais est celle-ci." .. Probably not perfect grammar..<BR><BR>I'm learning French (+English). Maybe that's why I want to have this sentence correctly. This should probably be said "..que je PUISSE dire ..", "La seul" making the superative. Perhaps I'm wrong. Somebody can confirm ?<BR><BR>BTW, I agree with MMP and others about sticking with Vous form.
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Je suis desole. I messed up. Quinty is not the person who will visit France in 2006. Anyway I thought it could be fun to know these expressions after I said about faim – hungry.<BR><BR>Ellie, thanks for your concern. I don’t feel offended at all. I think I did’t explain myself well. When I said faim is a noun, I meant the French word faim (noun)and not the english word hungry which is an adjective . French J’ai faim is literally I have hunger(meaning I’m hungry). And when they say J’ai tres faim, for me it’s saying I have very hunger . Sounds funny because very (an adverb) can be put before an adjective or another adverb but not before a noun in English.) . Oh well, again this doesn’t seem clear once I put them down in words.<BR>
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Hike:<BR><BR>There is no need to resort to "c'est gentil," which could be quite vague and confusing, as "gentil" and "gentille" are not pronounced differently except that one might linger just a tad on the last syllable of "gentille." But if you were thinking it was pronounced like "ville," that's not the case.
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Hi Quinty,<BR> My wife says that if you need to find the ladies' room ask "ici?". Someone will point the way.<BR><BR> Also, "ca va" (sah vah) is very useful. It means whatever you want it to mean - "excuse me", "is that right?", "over there?", etc.<BR><BR>
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Hi<BR><BR>I agree with most of the above.<BR><BR>Just a couple of points :<BR><BR>Don't believe "most poeple speak English". Even if they speak a little, many will be too embarassed to risk speaking too much.<BR><BR>Otherwise, always remember at the table that farting and picking your nose are seen to be impolite !<BR><BR>Peter<BR>
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Just make sure you're ready for the answer in French. Speaking it and being able to respond to the answer are two different things. It took me quite a while to be able to think in French, although I could ask questions, etc. <BR><BR>And don't forget that although the French are patient, it will take much less of their time if they speak English. In other words, save the attempts at French for stores that are not crowded, servers who are not too busy, etc. But ALWAYS ask if they speak English -- in French. If they say "a little" (which they are likely to do), you could respond in French that between your French and their English everything should be ok.
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"ca va" does not mean "whatever you want it to mean" and most certainly doesn't mean "excuse me," "is that right?" or "over there?" You'd sound like an idiot if you used it that way. <BR>It means "I'm fine," or "that's fine" or "it's ok," or "things are going well." As a question it means "how's everything?"<BR><BR>To ask for the restroom, just say "Ou sont les toilettes?" Asking "ici" is also peculiar. If someone walked up to you in English and said "here?" would you know what they meant?
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Can any one tell me at what point a mademoiselle beomes a madame? I always think it sounds more polite to reply to a bonjour with a mademoiselle or madame attached, but I often find myself omitting it for fear of giving offence.
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I agree with last few comments by francophone on ici and ça va. "Ici?" is bizarre as a way to ask where the toilets are, don't do it. That must have been some misunderstanding of another word or something.<BR><BR>As a tourist to France, I don't think there's any occasion you would need to use the familiar form (except children and dogs, as someone said, but the odds are you won't be talking to them). I have noticed some French guys (age 20s-30s) being rather casual with that nowadays and occasionally one will sometimes "tutoie" me right away when I don't know him, we've just met, but I don't like it. They also use it a lot on the internet, such as in IMs, when they don't know me, but I think that has become a casual medium.
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Wow - so many replies! Based on what I've learned here, I will focus on only the vous form of everything at this point and I'll remember that greetings/salutions are very important. <BR>I do realize that learning French word by word or by phrase is a far cry from the language, but I figure any words I can pick up will be good. <BR>Call me a nerd, but I have even started watching some of my DVDs in French with English subtitles so I can get a handle on the tempo and speed of the language. It's a lot to follow!<BR>I am a very fast learner and I have a lot of time on my hands to do this so I'm determined to get the most out of it. My goal is to have the ability to effectively communicate and understand the basics, and things that are going on around me - not carry on a casual conversation. <BR>I thank you all for your input.<BR>P.S. I am going in February, not 2006!
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Quinty -<BR><BR>I watch French movies with English subtitles, too. Another thing that I think has been even more helpful for me is watching English language DVDs with French subtitles turned on.
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Multilingual DVD's are a blessing indeed.<BR>It is a fact that in countries where foreign movies have always been subtitled (cheaper than dubbing), people have a disctinct advantage. Dutch and Belgian kids, f.ex. have heard thousands of hours of English spoken even before learning it in school.<BR>Since most DVD's in the US also have a French sound track for the Canadian market, take full advantage of it.<BR>It sounds a bit weird at first to hear Tom Hanks or Julia Roberts in French, but you get used to it.<BR>Bon voyage !
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I would also like to know when mademoiselle becomes madame. <BR>When students or sales clerks address me as Miss, I always say that only young people (under 18) merit that title. I prefer Madam which seems more respectful to me. (I'm a senior).<BR>Have not really figured out how the mademoiselle/madame thing works here in French Canada.<BR>I'd like to know what Parisians think.
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Nobody to clarify the madame/mademoiselle dilemma?
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Francophone and others wrote<BR>"ca va" does not mean "whatever you want it to mean" ...You'd sound like an idiot if you used it that way. ...<BR><BR>Asking "ici" is also peculiar. If someone walked up to you in English and said "here?" would you know what they meant?<BR><BR> I am only reporting what we found to be common useage on the streets of Paris in April, 2000. <BR><BR>
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I always thought that Madam was for married women and madamoiselle was for single women. When we go to stores or restaurants in France I always start out with "Parlez vous Englese sil vous plait?" And always Merci and Bon Jour. Enjoy!!
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Well, Ira,<BR><BR>I think what you "found to be common usage" in Paris was either a total miscomprehension on your part (you managed to communicate something but did so other than by using the correct words), or you heard other non-French-speaking people using totally incorrect French. I cannot believe that you can have experienced enough instances of the misuse of these phrases to conclude they were "common usage" in the space of one trip to Paris. If you don't speak a language, it's easy to think you stumbled on the right way of saying something when the locals figure out through other means what you are trying to say. At any rate,it's a disservice to pass on incorrect information to others, and your information was so wrong as to make any other visitor to Paris look downright nuts when trying to use simple phrases.
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Hi Francophone, just to clarify, 1) I know the ending of ggentilleh is not pronounced like that of gvilleh. 2) gentil and gentille. When not well articulated, maybe you donft hear the difference of gentil and gentille especially when you are not aware that there IS a differnce. But that does exist clear enough which I think "begginers" better learn with. 3) I quoted gcfest getilh as an neutral alternative. I knew gCfesth makes vague but if you are francophone, you can imagine many situations where gcfest gentil g works instead of saying gvous etes gentil OR gentilleh. It could mean you/he/her/them or whoever is kind, all depending on the contexte. My point was this way at least you wouldnft need to worry about masculine/feminine form too much. <BR><BR>>"ca va" (sah vah) is very useful. It means whatever you want it to mean - "excuse me", "is that right?", "over there?h<BR>There Francophone is basically right. It should not mean, gexcuse-me ", "is that right?", "over there?hby itsellf. However, I can imagine a situation where Irafs wife said it meaning gExcuse-meh. She could have stepped on someonefs feet. She should have said gExcusez-moih but instead she said gca va?h meaning, are you alright? Did I hurt you? This may be a limit case but not impossible. At least the other person knew that she was worried and cared though she doesnft speak good French. I could imagine other situations for "is that right?", "over there?h too. gIci = Toiletsh? Well, thatfs a hard one :-)<BR><BR><BR>
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Another messing-up! Sorry everyone. I must have done something wrong writing on WORD, then pasted. It looks alright on WORD screen. I re-write.<BR><BR>Hi Francophone, just to clarify, 1) I know the ending of "gentille" is not pronounced like that of "ville". 2) gentil and gentille. When not well articulated, maybe you don't hear the differennt ending especially when you are not aware that there IS a differnce. But that does exist clear enough which I think "begginers" better learn with. 3) I quoted "C'est getil" as an neutral alternative. I knew "C'est"form makes vague but if you are francophone, you can imagine many situations where "C'est gentil"works well to mean "vous etes gentil OR gentille". It could mean you/he/her/ them or whoever is kind, all depending on the contexte. My point was this way at least you wouldn't need to worry about masculine/feminine form too much. <BR><BR>>"ca va" (sah vah) is very useful. It means whatever you want it to mean - "excuse me", "is that right?", "over there?"<BR>There Francophone is basically right. It should not mean, "excuse-me ", "is that right?", "over there?" by itsellf. I can imagine a situation, however, where Ira's wife said ca va meaning "Excuse-me". She could have stepped on someone's feet. She should have said "Excusez-moi" but instead she said "ca va?" meaning, are you alright? Did I hurt you? This may be a limit case but not impossible. At least the other person knew that this American lady was worried and cared though she didn't speak good French. I could imagine other situations for "is that right?", "over there?"too. Ici = Toilets? Well, that's a hard one :-)<BR><BR>Quinty, I hope you are not too bored with my posts. What French words/expressions did you learn today ? You have only 1,5 months left. Hurry ! Kidding ;-)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
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Lewis wrote,<BR>>....I always start out with "Parlez vous Englese sil vous plait?" <<BR><BR> Did you mean "Parlez vous Anglais, svp"?
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Re: Madame ou Mademoiselle?<BR><BR>According to Polly Platt in her wonderfiul book Savoir Flair, you should use Madame except when addressing VERY young women. She points out that "Ma Dame" technically translates as "my lady"; it does not mean that the addressee is married. So no one will be offended to be addressed this way.<BR><BR>Hope that helps!<BR><BR>PS For help in learning French, I recommend the set of 8 CDs by Michel Thomas. He gets you formulating your own sentences very quickly. On my trip to Paris I was able to say everything I had to say in French, and I credit Michel Thomas. <BR><BR>A set of 2 audio cassettes called "French on the Go" helped me learn to comprehend simple expressions frequently used in tourist situations. It almost seems odd when you actually hear the very expressions from the tape used in real life! But that is exactly what happened, so I was ready! Bonne chance!
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Hey Ira, <BR>I don't have to write it, I just need to try and speak the language.
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Quinty- In my experience, the most important thing is to use a French accent. I do speak reasonable (not fluent) French. Arriving alone on one trip to Paris, after a harrowing plane ride from Franfurt, I sank into a cab exhausted and asked for Le Grand Hotel using basically an English accent. The driver insisted over & over he didn't understand. Finally, infrustration I said Le Gran Otel (with accent & feeling!) Ah oui he replied!<BR><BR>Whatever time you're spending learning, you must say it out loud, even if you're alone. Just reading will only help you read.<BR><BR>One of my biggest frustrations was with prices. When the French tell you how much something is, they often speak so quickly & there's so much calculating (ie. cinq cent soixante douze=500 +60 + 12= 572) Take a small pad & ask them to write it down.<BR><BR>Bonne chance, joyeux noel et bonnee annee!
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Lewis, no offense intended. It's just that Englese is Spanish, Anglais i s French.
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