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-   -   French experts: Which is correct, the D'Orsay? or the Orsay? (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/french-experts-which-is-correct-the-dorsay-or-the-orsay-824445/)

StCirq Feb 1st, 2010 09:22 AM

à Orsay makes a certain amount of sense, given that the Quai d'Orsay is a legitimate location, but since the French are always making "la liaison" to make the language roll off the tongue more smoothly, it seems a bit bizarre to me. Aurally, it has the same effect as Les Halles or les haricots. It kind of puts a stutter into the rhythm of the language.

Aduchamp1 Feb 1st, 2010 09:23 AM

Does it matter the name of the train station was Gare d'Orsay or before that Palais d'Orsay?

Do people still call the Centre Pompidou Beaubourg?

ThinGorjus Feb 1st, 2010 09:37 AM

I pronounce it "Dior."


Thin

Michael Feb 1st, 2010 10:03 AM

I think that Orsay by itself might be used as a shortened subject noun form of Quai d'Orsay referring to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Pvoyageuse Feb 1st, 2010 10:27 AM

Orsay is a town, 25 km south of Paris in Vallée de Chevreuse.
Le "Quai d'Orsay" or simply "Le Quai" refers to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs just as Place Beauveau refers to the Ministry of Interior.
and
people say indifferently 'je vais voir une exposition au musée d'Orsay" or "je vais voir une expo à Orsay" because in that specific case no ambiguity is possible. If they went to an exhibition in the town of Orsay they would say "à Orsay, la ville" or "à Orsay, pas le musée".

We say à Amsterdam, à Anvers, à Auch, à Agen, à Aix (the two exceptions with towns starting with the letter "A" are "en Arles" et "en Avignon") à Eboli, à Orléans, à Oléron, à Orvieto, à Oulan Bator, à Ouagadougou etc......... I don't see what's so strange with "à Orsay".

kevin_widrow Feb 1st, 2010 11:03 AM

You'd be fine saying à Orsay if you were referring to the town - towns do not take articles.

If referring to a building (Louvre, Elysée, etc) you need the article. So if you really want to leave off the Musée part then you've got to say:

Je vais à l'Orsay.

Just like:

Je vais au Louvre.

Anyway, that's my understanding... FWIW !!!

-Kevin

Padraig Feb 1st, 2010 11:21 AM

The problem, kevin, is that the building in which the Musée d'Orsay is housed is not named l'Orsay.

kerouac Feb 1st, 2010 11:23 AM

Je vais à l'Orsay.
Je vais au Louvre.
Je vais au Quai Branly.
Je vais à l'Orangerie.
Je vais au Picasso.
Je vais au Palais de Tokyo.
Je vais au Pompidou.

That's the way Parisians talk to each other. French people form the provinces would say the full name of the museum.

But to answer the original question, nobody would ever in a million years say "le d'Orsay" just as they don't say they're going to the "du Louvre."

kerouac Feb 1st, 2010 11:25 AM

"from" the provinces, not "form" the provinces!

Michel_Paris Feb 1st, 2010 11:31 AM

So those websites that said "xxx à Orsay" are wrong. I feel better now.

elsiejune Feb 1st, 2010 11:48 AM

I've been guilty of referring to le musee d'Orsay as the d'Orsay, and I should know better. Now, I do. Merci! EJ

Pvoyageuse Feb 1st, 2010 11:55 AM

I've never heard anybody say "je vais à l'Orsay".

Padraig Feb 1st, 2010 11:57 AM

I defer to kerouac, but also maintain that the Parisians are wrong.

Pvoyageuse Feb 1st, 2010 12:05 PM

"So those websites that said "xxx à Orsay" are wrong"

I'd be surprised if they were, especially Le Monde.

Michel_Paris Feb 1st, 2010 12:30 PM

Contraction? Like NYT headline saying 'Renoir at Met'?

I am intrigued...

kerouac Feb 1st, 2010 12:31 PM

"Expo à Orsay" would be the journalistic way to say it.

Padraig Feb 1st, 2010 12:32 PM

A small research exercise -- Google hits:
"à Orsay": 112,000
"à l'Orsay": 551

Even allowing that the "à Orsay" score includes hits for the town, I find the difference in scores persuasive. Of something.

Padraig Feb 1st, 2010 12:35 PM

We (participants in this discussion) are in both Google scores, so perhaps we should subtract one from each side.

kerouac Feb 1st, 2010 02:22 PM

Nobody knows where the town of Orsay is anyway.

Padraig Feb 1st, 2010 03:48 PM

kerouac wrote: "Nobody knows where the town of Orsay is anyway."

How do the inhabitants get home, then?


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