France: why do they protest?
 

The French are almost as famous for their demonstrations as for their strikes. Why do they do it? Well, it is almost always against the government and very rarely to support it. Also, major demonstrations regarding foreign affairs have become quite rare in recent years, although mini-demonstrations about something or other happen just about every day.

Okay, well anyway, tomorrow, September 7th, there is one of our traditional general strikes in France. Why are the French always on strike? Well, actually they are not, and here are the world strike statistics from NationMaster showing the 5-year average of days not worked per 1000 employees.

# 1 Denmark: 296
# 2 Iceland: 244
# 3 Canada: 217
# 4 Spain: 189
# 5 Norway: 135
# 6 Korea, South: 95
# 7 Ireland: 90
# 8 Australia: 86
# 9 Italy: 76
# 10 France: 67
# 11 United States: 60
# 12 Finland: 55
# 13 Greece: 29
# 14 Turkey: 28
# 15 Hungary: 25
= 16 United Kingdom: 22
= 16 Belgium: 22
= 16 Mexico: 22

So, actually France is very much like the United States. But French strikes have a flair that make you notice them. :)

Anyway, along with strikes come demonstrations, and I think they are a lot of fun. In fact, on Saturday, I participated in the protest march against the xenophobic government policies and more specifically the expulsion of perfectly legal gypsies from France.

As is my wont, I made a photo report about it and here it is. Tomorrow's march will be bigger and longer (République to Nation via Bastille) but it will also be in the rain. Those of you who are in Paris, feel free to check it out. There is absolutely nothing to be afraid of.

http://tinyurl.com/29l5pgx

The U.S. is a lot bigger than France, so that's not a large number of days off for strikes in a country this size and with 50 states. Happy Travels!

Guenmai, "per 1000 employees" is the same as "per capita." Were you often out sick during math class? Happy Travels!

Thanks, Kerouac, for the comment. I knew that it was coming. What I was referring to is that it would seem that a country as big as this would have more problems to strike about and there would be more strikes, strikes more often, and many more days off for them, due to the size and complexity of the country. Happy Travels!

Well, if France doesn't curb their spending they'll be bankrupt! In North American the retirement age for gov. pensions is 65 so the French want to change it from 60 to 62 big deal have them work till 65 like the rest of us... As for the Roma's I agree that if they don't find a job in 3 months, ship them back, why should the French pay for their welfare cheques!

What welfare cheques? Please tell me more about these!

<i>What I was referring to is that it would seem that a country as big as this would have more problems to strike about and there would be more strikes, strikes more often, and many more days off for them, due to the size and complexity of the country. </i>

I am also quite intrigued by this comment. Do you think that the United States is poorly organized? Should it be a hotbed of social conflict? Are you disappointed that every other country on the list has a lower population than the United States? USA #1 no matter what? Wow.

I love to see the demonstrations! And during the metro strike we rode for free on the trains that were still operating. Looking forward to you pictures, kerouac

Ha, tomorrow I'm working as usual, even if I have to go by Vélib (one of the best tools ever invented for getting around on a strike day!).

Kerouac: What a twisted interpretation of what I was pointing out. But, it doesn't surprise me. I wasn't the one sick during my classes. Happy Travels!

<i>it would seem that a country as big as this would have more problems to strike about and there would be more strikes, strikes more often, and many more days off for them, due to the size and complexity of the country</i>

Growing up in the United States, I learned in school how 'united' it was and that everybody was taught the same thing from sea to shining sea. Have things changed so much? I do agree that there should be more strikes, when you think of the employment and social policies.

Union membership has been on a steady decline in the USA.
According to the U S Dept of Labor, now only about 7 Percent of all private sector workers belong to a union.
However, the public sector still has about 34% of workers unionized. In the U.S. these public sector workers seldom strike.
Lack of stikes......Lack of union members

I'm aware that you grew up in the U.S. as you've pointed it out several times. And I'm sure you're aware that for decades I have lived in Danmark, for example, during many months of the year. I have personally experienced friends constantly unhappy about this or that there and wanting to strike about something. When one is striking so much, then how serious do the strikes become taken? And in countries that have such "picture perfect" systems to those in comparison to countries who do not, then what's all the discontent about? Happy Travels!

The bottom line here regardless of country is that we are all human and humans, like water, seem to like to take the path of least resistance. keep giving someone something for free and soon it becomes an acceptable way of living. The human spirit is strong but it must be challenged for that spirit to use it's full potential. just imagine if America had been settled by people with the mindset of today. Entreprenurial spirit has shaped the world so rise up carpe diem!
By the way I am in paris today and staying a stone's throw away from the Bastille so rain or not I intend to grab a cafe creme and watch the proceedings

Anyway, in terms of transportation, only the RER B is closed at the moment. All of the other lines are running from 30 to 100%. That will change later in the day, because there is a law to provide minimum service at rush hour, but once rush hour is finished, some of the lines will almost certainly close down -- especially when the time of march approaches. Even people who support the movement don't really enjoy losing a day's pay, so many will work AND protest.

Just curious, and I'm not in for any arguments, not in the mood, but how does one work and protest?

Years ago, when those of us in my field were out on strike, protests, demonstrations, etc... there were over 20,000 people out and we had a strike for weeks and without pay, but in order to make ourselves real clear, and have many of our demands met. And we had people who weren't even in our field join the strike lines, in support.

Then last year, we had a few one day walk outs, combined with some protests/demonstrations and without pay or working while doing most of it unless a protest fell on a day that one wasn't assigned to work.

And a couple of years ago, there was the writer's strike that went on for 100 days and thousands were affected right down to the catering services, maintenance services, carpenters, and all others connected with the studios. I knew many affected by it. I passed the strikers nearly daily. And the restaurants in the area were also affected with low turn out.

Also there was the writers' strike, in the late 80s, that went on for 5 months.

So, when we were on strike,out protesting, etc..., we didn't go to work. We arrived to the strike line "every" morning around 7:30AM and stayed on it for hours and until the thousands of people moved to the protests designated areas and the protests then went on for hours; still no work or pay.

So, there is plenty of activism here and last year as I drove past a Hilton Hotel here, nearly daily, I noticed a workers' strike that went on for weeks on end. Happy Travels!

In France, you are supposed to declare to your employer 48 hours ahead of time if you will be participating in a strike. Your salary is docked accordingly.

Looks like the next demonstration is going to be scheduled for September 18, a Saturday, so that private sector people will have an easier time to participate. It will be just a march, not a strike.

>In the U.S. these public sector workers seldom strike.<

IIRC, public employees are allowed to engage in collective bargaining, but are not permitted to strike.

((I))

I think in France the 3 sectors which may never strike are military, police, and firefighters. Medical personnel can be requisitioned, as can public broadcasting employees -- probably some others that have slipped my mind as well.

My Korean workers used to just put on a head band and refuse to talk to me if they were on strike (unless it was specifically about work) you knew they were on strike they just did not endanger their jobs

Just before I left for Paris in July I had been reading "The Sweet Life in Paris' by David Lebovitz. One chapter is devoted to the strikes and titled "Greve Grief".
Some of what he says was really funny, like when he first experienced strikers around his apartment in Bastille, he nearly dove under a table as his apartment started to quiver from the dull thud of thousands of feet heading his way!

Strikes are part of the cultural fabric of Paris and even have a season he says - In early fall, then returning later in May the strikes and les mouvement sociaux begin to erupt on a regular basis.
He mentions a few: The first major all-out 'greve' in November 2007 and Sarko's first major challenge after being elected. To add to the chaos, the students struck at the same time. And so did the teachers and customs officials.
And postal workers and hospital workers and civil servants and tax inspectors. And newspaper and television employees. Many banks shut their doors too, since getting to work was pas possible - Most of Paris was just shut down.

Another was when 10,000 les fumiers took to the streets in protest but there was a decree smoking in restaurants should be banned and it was.

Another hopeful group of strikers were the pesky motor scooter riders protesting against a crackdown on parking and driving on the sidewalks.

Oddly, he says, there was also a fireman's strike where les pompiers de Paris lit dramatic fires as part of their protest.
The police had to come and do battle with the fireman and calm things down.

David says the French shrug off the strikers with pursed lips and a look of resignation, as if to say. "We are French. That's what we do".

Yay, we're #3. I would not have guessed based on what I see around me, I assume there must be a lot of smaller ones aorund the country. Our last two big ones in my city were the garbage collectors. They go out in summer months. Guess what happens? :)

Kerouac, what's the sense in France about retirement ages and benefits? While I admire the concept, have to wonder about the long terms costs of early retirement. Is it a public sector versus private sector issue?

The retirement issue is obviously a hot one here. And a very complicated one.

France used to have 65 as retirement age, and Mitterrand put it down to 60. So now the government wants to put it back up to at least 62 over the next few years. Specific issues are people who have physically strenuous jobs, who think they should have special preference,(some are more strenuous than others)and people who have already worked a very long time, having started when they were about 15.

While most people are aware that the system has to change, a great number believe that it should be business who pays more, rather than workers.

I should probably shop there before getting in too deep and making too many comments about the rest of Europe, where the retirement age is already higher, and going higher still.

Of course, there is that other little detail called "the financial crisis."

When the government says, "We have to do this or there will be a 200 million euro deficit in the retirement funds in 5 years," people don't forget that when the banks were in trouble due to their own foolishness, something like 200 <b>billion</b> euros were suddenly found in France to bail them out and just one year later, they were giving out 200 <b>million</b> euros in bonuses to the traders again for their wonderful speculation.

So why is 200 million a negligeable amount for banks but a national catastrophe for honest working people?

Kerouac -- do they have 401k savings programs like the US or do they solely rely on government retirement funds? If not, I would be striking, too, although every knows here with losing 30% in our 401k over the past 2 years, we will all be working until we're 80!

Also, does this mean when travelling to France, is Sunday a better arrival date to avoid the strikes? We were there in July when there was the one day strike by the airline workers, but luckily was not impacted.

The retirement funds are all managed through the government. One of the best things about it is that even if you change jobs 25 or more times during your life, you are still building your retirement benefits from the same fund. There are supplementary funds for executives and such, but they are still government controlled.

When Sarkozy first was elected, one of his ideas was to get people to do a 401k deal instead of the traditional funds, but the idea was quickly abandoned after observing his favorite American "model."

There is no specific day to avoid strikes. I think I heard on the evening news that the next strike is set for 23 September.

"One of the best things about it is that even if you change jobs 25 or more times during your life, you are still building your retirement benefits from the same fund."

Not quite. If you quit your job as a civil servant to enter the private sector, you have to "buy" the difference in retirement benefits or lose what you have saved.

Civil servants have different "caisses de retraite" (Préfon and the like). Their retirement pension is based on the last 6 months of activity (where their salary is at the highest) whereas it is calculted on the average of the 25 "best" years of private sector employees.

It is not surprising that more and more people (those who can afford it) resort to saving programs.

People do not retire equally in the land of Liberté, Egalité and Fraternité.

Yes, but transfers are possible. And frankly, people rarely leave the public sector for the private sector. They all know the exact advantages and disadvantages when they enter the workforce (lower salaries for most of your career, but better benefits and an earlier and better retirement -- it's one of the things that Sarkozy is trying to eliminate).

People who can afford to save will always save extra, no surprise there. But many people do not have that option.

People do not retire equally anywhere, but France is one of the better places.

Reminds me of the old English saying - "The French are revolting" !

A difficult pun to explain to non native anglophone speakers.

Peter

"The retirement funds are all managed through the government. One of the best things about it is that even if you change jobs 25 or more times during your life, you are still building your retirement benefits from the same fund."

What a great benefit! I told my husband it will take a CPA to figure out where all our different retirement accounts are and heaven help us if we both die before we retire. No one will know where all the 401k money is.

I keep laughing when I think about last Spring when everyone was dumping on the Greeks for their protests against losing benefits, raising retirement age, etc etc ... "Greek Riots!!" was all that (guess who?) Foxnews and BBC could scream for days... and there were snide remarks about, the rest of Europe doesn't act this way.

Well, guess what? The shoe is pinching in other nations. Watch out for SPain, Italy, Ireland --whose turn is next.

So, actually France is very much like the United States. But French strikes have a flair that make you notice them.>

Complete Bull Crap - when was the last time the U.S. had a national strike where no matter where you were going you could not be sure of public transports not being on strike.

Kerouac you are so so out of touch with America it is pathetic - there is no parallel - French strikes cause great disruptions on public transports - rarely seen in America and i can never think of one.

In this case you are simply whistling Dixie or perhaps just so naive about what happens in your native America.

Triste, really such a clueless post comparing strikes in America with those in France.

Blather = pure blather IMO

PalenQ, I was only referring to the number of working days lost in each country. I know very well how American strikes work with those pathetic little signs and three people picketing out front.

Three people picketing out front. I needed my laugh for the day or the week. So, I guess that in the over 20,000 that were out on strike in my field, there were only three holding pathetic little signs and picketing out front?

And thanks, Tod, for your comments, especially regarding strikes having "seasons" in France. That puts things into perspective. Happy travels!

" but transfers are possible".
Sure, but at a cost. This was my point. After 5 years in the military, my son had to pay an hefty amount to get a transfer (the difference between government vs private sector rate of "cotisation caisse de retraite") or simply lose 5 years of savings. I can't blame Sarkozy for trying to elimnate such discrepancies.

"And frankly, people rarely leave the public sector for the private sector."
Both my husband and my son did, for different reasons. It is not that unusual.

I would like to make a comment about strikes in South Africa compared to strikes in France, and this is a question really as I would love the answer:

We are at this very moment going through strikes on several levels. Firstly the teachers - the end of the year examinations are almost nil and void as the pupils have have no schooling for weeks on end. I can remember this happening just about every year but this time it's the worst loss of school hours ever.

Secondly, the nurses went on strike at hospitals all over the country and they did it in the most brutal fashion - in one instance leaving 25 newborn babies to simply die as they left the building. Where were the mothers? Sometimes they are sent home if the baby is in an incubator for a time, otherwise if the infant has other problems the mothers go to the hospital on a daily basis if they are able to.

Would these awful scenarios happen in France during a long strike?

Guenmai is correct, what is galling about strikes in France is that nobody is there holding signs and marching. The vast majority of strikers simply don't show up and go on vacation. I was in Paris during the strikes of the railway workers a few years ago. Each day you had to go to the RER station and see if there were trains or not. I couldn't get to work for a whole week! During all this time, I didn't see a single worker holding signs, or even posters explaining the reasons for the protest.

Tod, there have been school semesters as good as lost in France every now and then, from primary school to university. I would say that school reforms in France, no matter which faction is in power, are the most difficult to implement.

As for hospitals, even though workers can go on strike, enough employees are always requisitioned for the most important needs. In others words, the nurses will be there for shots and bandages, but you won't see anybody pushing the library cart from room to room.

Just to put this into perspective.

Sure there were cancellations, but notified in advance. My wife took the TGV Nimes - Paris on Tuesday. I dropped her off. The platform was about normal, and the train (originating in Perpignan) about half full.

This was the direct train - now 2hrs 50 mins.

The big union demonstrations in Nimes were cancelled due to bad weather !

Never believe French media.

Peter

Or any other media, for that matter.