This should be your first bit of travel research.

Go to the German Transportation site
https://int.bahn.de/en
Enter "Paris" as the From, and Chamonix-Mont-Blanc as the To
Put in a date & time of sometime next week & 6am (can you get up & "rolling" in time to get to the Gare de Lyon by 7:30AM) .

See what you get.

Then select the "detail" to determine how much time you have for the many train & bus connections.

I also hope you read the document I attached about the weather we experienced in early July.

Stu Dudley

Next trip plan - Chamonix to Sorrento
Use Rome2Rio
https://www.rome2rio.com/

But enter your own time estimates for the three connections. Especially for the flight departure & arrival for 7 people with checked luggage.

Here is what I came up with:

Depart Chamonix by bus at 10 am & arrive at the Geneva airport at 11:18
Check in luggage, get boarding documents, & security
Flight departs at 2:15 & arrives in Naples at 3:56
Retrieve luggage
Depart Naples airport by bus at 5:30 & arrive in Naples Piazza Garabaldi at 5:45. I have no idea where the Piazza is.
Depart Piazza Garabaldi by train at 6:55 & arrive in Sorrento at 8:05. Sooner if you are lucky.
Get to hotel, check in for 3-4 rooms(?), arrive in room for a "freshen up" and "ready to go" by 9:30pm
Have a very late dinner in Sorrento.

If you want to visit the Amalfi coast then next day - you'll need to get on a bus to do that (I'm not a fan of Sorrento).

Stu Dudley

Since you seem pretty set on a bunch of short stays, please, please, get a calendar and map out each segment against the days of the week. Closure days, when stores and tourist sites are closed, can wreck a short stay in a particular place. If at all possible, map travel days onto closure days. Usual closure days are Sunday and Monday, with some museums closing Tuesdays. Also note that train and bus schedules can be different on weekends. Finally, mark the local holidays on your calendar. A holiday may make a planned visit impossible or may provide a festival that you won't want to miss.


Now also help us help you by collecting lists of must see must do goals for each place. I suggest giving that task to the members of your group who have determined a particular place to be included in your trip. Make each list twice as long as you will have time for, to allow choices when the inevitable temporary repair closure or massive rainstorm messes up your best laid plans. Getting there may be half the fun, but planning is even more fun and is essential. And don't be afraid to split the group occasionally to accommodate differences in desires and mobility.

Edit addition: Chamonix is not the only Alpine place. There are Swiss, French, and Italian Alps. Perhaps changing your Alp may make your travel easier.

What AJP said. What are your plans for your visit to this area? You may have mentioned it but i admit I've skimmed the responses. Is it to hike and see Mont Blanc? What if weather is cruddy when you're there and you can't do or see nothing? Chamonix is great, don't get me wrong, but to travel all the way to a place that is an outlier just to have some semblance of an "alpine experience" in an already hectic plan seems a bit counter-intuitive, IMO. And, if going to the mountains is an absolute "my dream to see" by someone, consider going to an area better connected instead.

I know I'm echoing a lot of what has been said.

And I know that you want to adhere to the requests of everyone in this plan but think of it this way: the who making the request. Of everyone, there are "obvious" people who may not get to do much traveling over 5 people that still may have the opportunity. As someone who has traveled with their elderly parents, I've put their must-sees in priority over everyone else's. You do you, but I'd consider this option to simplify your itinerary if you can.

Yay! I am glad you checked back in after all of the "excitement" I think your trip will be wonderful! Use all of this good advice, but follow your heart.Do read Stu's advice and itineraries, wonderful! Do plan for time to relax, sleep in sometimes, and that someone probably will get sick. Also, work in a place to do laundry. A home rental somewhere with an in unit washing machine would be great.

I am someone who likes the flavor of different locations, I think France and Italy are a great combination.
If you don't have your flights yet and the price wouldn't much different, I would suggest flipping your trip. Italy was incredibly hot last summer, so do the hottest first, then work your way north.

Fly into Rome, spend at least 3 nights there. Train down to Naples, I think Sorrento is a good destination and the area has a lot different activities, Pompei is a must! Fly from Naples to Geneva on Easy Jet and get your Alps time in. Train to Paris, about 3+ hours. Fly out of Paris.

You then have city energy, mountain vistas, water views and beaches. Great food, culture, history, and archaeology. And most locations don't need a car and have different directions to take for those with different interests. I think in the Alps plan, a car would be helpful. 2 cars would be plenty, we had a small SUV in Italy that fit 4 adults, 4- 24 inch suitcases, and 4 backpacks. Enjoy!

"Fly from Naples to Geneva on Easy Jet and get your Alps time in""

Their plan is to wake up in Chamonix and and go to sleep in Sorrento. According the the info I found on Rome2Rio & posted in #42, that trip consumes 12 hours with a bus, plane, bus, train. And if they miss either the first bus or the plane - they are stuck - maybe sleeping in an airport or bus station (7 people). I assume Sorrento to Chamonix is somewhat the same.

. ""Train to Paris, about 3+ hours. Fly out of Paris""

Again their plan is Paris to Chamonix. Either get up when it is dark and get to the Gare de Lyon at 7:30 and take 3 trains/buses to Chamonix and arrive at 2:13, or take a later train with 4 trains/buses & arrive at 4:45.

I researched November schedules. Maybe June schedules are better.

Stu Dudley

I love this group! So many well-traveled people to offer help! :)

I was going to suggest an itinerary similar to what bvlenci suggested. Start with Paris, take the train to Geneva/bus up to Chamonix (the gite that Stu stayed in is stunning!). Then back to Geneva to fly to Venice. You could visit the old towns of Padua, Treviso or Verona, Depart from Venice.

I gotta feel with the OP trying to satisfy everyone in his/her travel group of people who do not seem to have much experience traveling to Europe. I like the suggestion of prioritizing the parents wishes if it helps make for a more sane itinerary.

OP-
I have done this entire itinerary, but in 2 different trips, so here is my advice for you.
BLUF: This is a totally do-able trip.

We flew into CDG and then went to LON for the weekend, flew from LON to Geneva, took a private van from Geneva to Chamonix. We spent 2 nights in Chamonix, took the gondola up to aiguille du midi, but basically just relaxed and enjoyed ourselves. Could have stayed 10 more nights, to be truthful. We stayed at the hotel right at the base of the gondola, and it was fantastic. We then moved on to Annecy. The train was NOT running at the time, so we had to go by bus. Oh my gossshhhhh -- it took forrreevvverrr. But that was that -- we got to Annecy. Honestly, we were very glad to only be staying 1 night there. We did the boat out onto the lake, we walked the entire town, but we were pretty done by the end of the night. The next morning, we got up extremely early, caught the train to Lyon, and continued up the Eastern spine of France via Colmar and Strasbourg, eventually heading west again to CDG and out.

I also have done Rome & Sorrento. I think you don't need that many days in Sorrento. But, if you want to go to Capri (it's a short 30-45 min catamaran -- but they are big boats, so generally a nice ride), or if you plan on laying out in the sun, or plan on using Sorrento as a base to go to Pompeii (and I would then encourage you to split the time and go to Herculaneum), then maybe. I will note, by the way, that both Pompeii and Herculaneum are easily reachable by the local train, but it is a heavily pickpocketed train, so watch your stuff while on it. As for Rome, I wouldn't honestly even bother if you only have one day. To make it worth it, I would shave a day off of Paris, and at least one off of Sorrento, and turn it into 3 days in Rome. When you are leaving, getting to FCO can be pretty annoying, but take the train and it's relatively easy -- I actually took it from a local (not Termini) station, and it was so much easier. On that note... people will tell you to steer clear of the main Rome train terminal (Termini.) I was absolutely safe there, but I would say to be VERY careful with all of your stuff -- there are loads of pickpockets.

As for getting to where you want to go... here is what I would do, to be honest:
(1) CDG to Geneva, private van service to Chamonix. --> Long day, but this gets you into Chamonix in a day. Make sure you stay somewhere easy where you can get to the main drag in town.
(2) If you are absolutely hell bent on Annecy, okay, but that is a lonnnnngggg day trip because you have to come out of the Alps basically and down, then back up. Not worth it, IMO, but might be for you, so you have to decide
(3) To get to Sorrento: From Chamonix, I would go BACK to Geneva via private van, and FLY to Naples or Rome and train from there into Sorrento. Note: Naples is a little sketchy still, so eehhh. If you do Rome, however, you are going to have to haul from the airport into Termini, then from Termini take a train to Naples, so technically end up in the same spot, just skipping the Naples airport and transfer. The Naples-- Sorrento train is the one I mentioned above that runs through Pompeii and has the heavy pickpocketing. Also, it takes, if I recall, about 45 min from Naples to Sorrento. It was a while ago for me though, so I might be wrong.
(4) From Sorrento to Rome, just going to have to reverse this, go back up to Naples, then take a train to Rome.
(5) From Rome (Termini station or a local station, depending on where you stay...) you'll train out to FCO and fly home.

Regarding luggage: You are planning to move all over the place. I would limit everyone in my party to a 40L bag they can carry (NO ROLLING BAGS) + small day bag. Otherwise, you will be wasting time trying to manage the luggage, which is entirely unnecessary, to be honest, for the length of trip you will be gone. I don't think you need 3 rental cars or anything like that (!!!!!), but I definitely would limit the baggage. I have never rented a car in Europe, and have spent a lot of time there-- done "circle tours" of 5..6... countries now. Trains are awesome AND... so are planes. Just have to do it right. Keep yourselves to 40L + small day bag, and costs stay down. I personally am a fan of REI and Tom Bihn bags, but TB is very $$ -- that said, I have a TB Synapse that has been literally around the world with me for over 100 days of travel, and it's only 23L -- it's not what you take, it's how the bag works for you. I took a 40L on a 2019 trip to Poland for 3 weeks and though it was so big I had no idea what to do with all the space...

LASTLY. DON'T LET ANYONE DISCOURAGE YOU from doing what you & your family want to do. It's YOUR TRIP. Yeah, this is a LOT of traveling, but you know what? Then everyone gets to see what they want AND... you still have time together. Travel light, and make the traveling part of the adventure-- you get to see a lot along the way. Also? Airports in Europe generally run on-time and they aren't the pain in the butt that they are in the US necessarily, and the kids will love to try EU food (esp. Geneva). They can also say they went to Switzerland!!!

Have a great trip and best of luck!! (I was going to attach photos for you, but I don't have enough posts to do that... happy to send you some if you can figure out a way to message me your email! :)

Stu, I am suggesting they flip the trip.
Rome-Naples-Geneva-Paris.
Do the warmest destination first and work north.Sleep in Rome, Sorrento, ?, Paris.
Easy Jet flight Naples to Geneva is 1:50, rent 2 cars for that area, return car to Geneva train station, Lyria nonstop train to Paris is 3:13.

The OP indicated that they won't likely rent a car. So that makes the Paris/Chamonix portion more complicated.

The Sorrento/Chamonix trip is the killer, since a car is not an option there either.

Stu Dudley

40 litre bag seems overkill, you'll be buried in bags

40 liters is about a regular 21 inch rollaboard so not overkill at all. But I definitely don't get the prohibition on wheelie bags. For some, a rollaboard is the only way is they could manage 40 liters.

yes they need wheels, especially given the age range.

I find the idea of switching around the trip to avoid the problems of Climate Change due to aircraft flight and to recommend flying frankly mind-boggling. But most of you guys know that.

It seems to me that Easy jet is not an option. According to Rome2Rio, there is not a direct flight from Geneva to Naples on the OP's June 20 travel date!!!

There is a direct flight on:
June 19 at 4 PM - which will get them to Sorrento about 9:30PM
June 21 at 9:am (too early) and 4 PM
June 22 at 11:50 - again too early

I could not get the EasyJet site to work - it always gave me an error message. Which is a red flag, in my opinion.

There is not a bus from Chamonix to Geneva that will get them there on time for an earlier flight check in (earliest is at 9:18AM but departs Chamonix at 8AM - very risky).

So the only option is the 4PM flight that arrives at 5:45. Then they will retrieve their bags and take a taxi to the piazza Garabaldi (bus service does not run that late) and take the 8:07 train from there that arrives in Sorrento at 9:17. Can they get 3 taxis at the airport in a reasonable time??

So does anyone have a non-car solution???

Stu Dudley

Chamonix is the sticking point. The complexity of getting there and getting to the next point has a high risk of messing up royally. Go elsewhere. For instance, Geneva/Lake Geneva area has access to the Jungfrau. There may even be a Geneva based Alps bus tour, perhaps combined with a lake excursion. Research!

Stu,
My itinerary only works with flipping the order of the trip. Easy Jet has flights on June 22 at 9:30 and 1:30 FROM Naples TO Geneva. Flipping would also give the Alps location a chance to warm up a little.
I totally agree that Chamonix is the sticking point, many other mentioned Alps locations would be an easier option.

Answer to post 33:
Timetable Chamnonix - Sorrento for June 24th:
Chamonix dp 7.00 by Flixbus - Milan Lampuigano ar 10.40. Metro red line to Cadorna, plus metro green line to Centrale.
Milano Centrale dp 13.00 - Trenitalia - Napoli Centrale ar 17.33, dp 18.19 - Cirvumvesuviana - Sorrento ar 18.29

12 hours of travel to get there, basically. With 7 people. I'd be exhausted the following day, assuming nothing goes wrong...

The most difficult part is getting the group of 7 (with 2 teens) to the bus area at 6:30 am. This is suppose to be a VACATION.

Coral - I agree with you. Probably best to reverse everything.

Stu Dudley

I have learned over many years of traveling that simplicity works best. Weather in the alps in June can also be problematic

When we stayed near Chamonix for a week in early July, we could not see Mt Blanc 50% of the time because of clouds. We had a straight-on shot of it from our gite. I think it even snowed a bit, and rained one day quite hard. My wife took a beautiful picture of a rainbow.

Stu Dudley

I hope the OP is taking notes!!!

The same day it was raining in the valley were we stayed, it was snowing up on the high mountain lifts. The next day was beautiful - but cold. We took the gondola up on the farthest east lift. On the final platform of the lift, all the handrails & footpaths had about 3-4 inches of snow. And a thermometer there indicated that the temps were minus 8C. I think that's 20F. My wife wore a shirt under a sweater and under a double insulated jacket. I wore something similar. Even with the winter cloths on, by wife had hypothermia and was uncontrollable shaking for several hours (too many years living in California). We have pictures of the thermometer & us in winter clothing. This was about July 13 - approx 3 weeks before the OP will be there. About 3 days after we departed, the Tour de France went by our gite. It rained hard for the entire race that day.

Many wise contributors to this thread have advised the OP & his gang of 7 to travel light. They can't, if they plan to visit the Mont Blanc area and take some of the fantastic lifts up to mountain vantage spots. Packing for Mt Blanc & the Bay of Naples/Amalfi Coast involves summer & winter clothes. Even if it turns out you don't need them.

Stu Dudley

Weather is always unpredictable in the Alps.
There is no easy way to go from Chamonix or Annecy to Sorrento..

Alternatives:
Chamonix dp 9.00 - Flixbus - Lampugnano ar 12.50 -metro - Milano C dp 15.15 - Italo - Napoli C ar 19.53, dp 20.07 - Sorrento ar 21.17
Chamonix dp 7.15 - Bus SAT - GVA ar 9.00, dp 11.40 - ITA - FCO ar 13.10, dp 14.38 - Termini - Napoli C ar 16.33, dp 17.07 - Sorrento ar 18.17
Chamonix dp 16.20 - Flixbus - Aosta ar 17.55, dp 18.40 - Trenitalia - Torino ar 20.35, dp 21.55 - overnight train with sleeping cars - Napoli C ar 8.17, dp 8.40 - sorrento ar 9.53
This overnight train is not yet sheduled for next year

All trips consuming over 14 hours hotel-to-hotel. Miss a connection - the trip may consume 2 days (hope "last minute" accommodations can be found for 7 people). What happens if the next flight or train is fully booked (plane only has 5 seats available??). What is plan B or C. I hope the OP is paying attention this.

"Man hears what he want's to hear and disregards the rest"
The Boxer
by Paul Simon

Stu Dudley

StuDudley is riht, of course!
The initial plan with a long stop over at Florence was much better.
If the OP wants to bypass Tuscany, i would spend 1 night at Turin or Milan. Tons of trains go from there to Napes all along the day.

But i still find that the best solution would be to fly from Paris to Naples, to backtrack from there by train up to Florence, Milan or Turin, to reach Chamonix a day later.and to fly home from GVA.

You guys are something else! I got waaaaaaay more than I bargained for when I wrote my initial post. Thanks to EVERYONE for their input.

First, a few messages from you that we'll definitely use/consider:

1. Pack light
2. Find places where we can do laundry
3. Move from South to North - I haven't suggested this one to my family yet, so it's not reflected in the itinerary below.

We went back to the drawing board and here's itinerary 3.0. We made a few big changes. 1. We removed the French Alps 2. Ligurian Coast instead of Amalfi Coast 3. Add Tuscany

June 15-20: Paris
June 20 travel day: Fly from Paris to Pisa or Genoa and take train/bus/? to Ligurian Coast on June 20 - not sure what city yet and haven't looked at transporation specifics. Looks like there are direct flights from Paris to Pisa, but not to Genoa. Are we wrong on that?
June 20-June 24 Ligurian coast
June 24 travel day: Rent 2 cars and travel to Tuscany - perhaps near Montepulciano
June 24-June 28 Tuscany
June 28 travel day: drive to Rome and return rental cars
June 28-July 1 Rome
July 1 fly home

This itinerary gives us 4 full days in Paris, 3 full days on the Ligurian Coast, 3 full days in Tuscany, and 2 full days in Rome. We could move the extra day in Paris to one of the other stops, but if we're stuck on being in France and Italy, we figure we might as well stay there for the extra day. Yes, 4 stops is likely more than many of you would take, but our family has 1 chance to be in Europe together, we are willing to add a travel day to get in one more location. I do feel bad for my brother who originally wanted to go to Colmar and the Alps (Lauterbrunnen Valley first, then Chamonix). First he gave up on Colmar, and later gave up on the Alps. He did say he's good with our current plan, but it feels like he's getting the short end of the stick. He might stay a few extra days in Europe and I suggested he use that time to hit the mountains. There was just no way we could go to Paris, Colmar, the Lauterbrunnen Valley, and hit Italy in 16 days, right?

We like this current itinerary because it still gives us France (Paris) for a good chunk of time and then we keep our Italy portion of the trip with shorter distances between stops. We got rid of the biggest sticking point, the French Alps as many of you have recommended.

Is our plan to rent 2 cars when we leave the Ligurian Coast to drive to Tuscany and then to drop them off in Rome a good idea or would you recommend we travel by a different mode (train/bus/private van) from Liguria to Tuscany and then to Rome?

Do you see any other problems with the current plan or is this a good solution to satisfy the France/Italy desire my family has without such long travel days? Any suggested tweaks that we haven't considered?

Let me know if you have suggestions for cities to stay on the Ligurian Coast or in Tuscany. I noted the recommendations for Sanremo, Savona, and Imperia and see they are further west. We were thinking more in the area of Portofino or Cinque Terre. One of the reasons we chose to be further east is so that we can more quickly get to Tuscany. Definitely open to your suggestions there. I do like the idea of sandy beaches so our girls can get in the water. Not sure which cities may be best for that.

Thanks again! I can't believe how amazing you've all been!

I actually like 5 nights in Paris. Gives you time to get over jet lag and gives you enough time to get a feel for the city. In terms of the Ligurian coast there are many options. Portofino is nice but extremely expensive and driving there is very stressful. Tuscany is a large area and you do not have much time to see much of it. What is it you want to see and do in Tuscany? Lastly I would not add time to Rome. You do not have time to see Rome. I would also not drive into Rome but drop your cars off somewhere like Orvieto and train into Rome. Leave Rome for another time when you can do it justice

I would also consider flying into Genoa. I think there is currently a flight a day from Orly. Take the train to somewhere like SML and stay there. You may or may not need a car for Tuscany depending on your interests.

You'll need a car if you plan to stay in Montepulciano.

You can also take the train from Chiusi-Chianciano Terme to Rome. Less than 2 hr trip. Orvieto is about 15 mins shorter trip to Rome. Chiusi is closer to Montepulciano by 30 mins - but is a little difficult to find. More than 7 years ago, car rental places in Orvieto were on & off. Make sure you can return a car there before you book a train from Orvieto. The Europcar office in Chiusi is about a 20-30 min walk downhill to the station. We drop off the bags at the station, and one of us drives to the Europcar office to return the car. Hertz might be closer - but is on & off too. Check. Consider visiting Orvieto - one of our favorites. Maybe do a "dry run" there while in Montepulciano to visit Orvieto & check out the car return/train situation. Same with Chiusi.

Don"t drive into Rome.

No need for winter clothing.

Your plan #3 is fine.

Stu Dudley

Also, if you pick up a car in SML on Monday June 24 and return it on Friday the 28th, note that rental offices are often closed on Saturday or only open in the morning. On Sunday, they are usually closed all day. Research this info if you change any dates in your itinerary. They are almost always closed for lunch too.

Stu Dudley

Sometimes people come here looking for advice on their itinerary but don't really want anybody to tell them their plan just won't work, so it's great to see someone who takes all the suggestions and adjusts their plan. If StuDudley, with all his experience, says your most recent plan is good, you can congratulate yourself!

You still end up with too little time in Rome (my favorite place), but you can always go back! 😁

I would fly into Paris, stay 5 nights, then 5 nights Rome and then 4 nights Sorrento. Back to Rome and fly home

While I think the urge is to see "everything" while you are there, it will really be too rushed.

I also think so, as far as Italy is concerned I can tell you that reaching Tuscany from the Amalfi Coast takes a long time. Consider that you should arrive in Naples or Salerno from there take a train to Florence and then get to Montepulciano with a taxi. So just visiting a country requires a lot of travel time.

Salerno - Montepulciano by train is just 4 hrs 20 min. For example:
Salerno dp 13.05 - Montepulciano ar 17.26. Change at Rome and Chiusi.

Just to be clear, it's another (nearly) 30 minutes by taxi from the Montepulciano train station to Piazza Grande in the center of the town.