four days in tuscany .. skip pisa?
 

Hi all,
Just finishing up the plans for our italy trip in July and all we have left is figuring out the tuscany portion.
We will be in florence for a week (we have a wedding there) and will leave on the sunday july 8th. I have a room booked in siena at palazzo ravizza for the 10th and 12th but not sure what to do about the 8th and 9th.
Is this an ok idea.. train to pisa on the 8th, stay over night. Get up and rent a car and drive to san gimignano (tour it and volterra) spend the night, get up and drive to siena (one day there and then one day likely doing a wine tour around montalcino) then continue our drive down to sorrento on the 12th.
Am I missing anything. I know right away most of you will say we should stay in one place so i guess the other option would be to train from florence to siena right away and stay there all four nights?
oh decisions.

with a week in Florence, won't you have time to do a day trip from there? get the train and you'll be there in about an hour, give or take 10 mins, depending on which train you get.

otherwise your plan is fine, bearing in mind that you will have had a nice long stay in Florence.

BTW, don't miss Fiesole, while you are in Florence. a great 1/2 day excursion.

I agree---day trip to Pisa from Florence and stay in Siena for 4 nites---having a car for 3 of those days.

z - have you been at PalenQs paint stripper?

griffy, I have no idea whether you are "deeply interested" in beautiful architecture or the renaissance, but please don't be put off going to Pisa, even if you don't fall into either of the above categories. There is a lot of tat around the campo dei miracoli, but it isn't called that [the field of miracles] for nothing - the buildings transcend the surrounding rubbish and with a wander round the rest of Pisa are well worth a 3/4 day trip.

don't be put off by others silly comments.

Zeppole - I just have to ask - why in the world would it bother you if someone takes a photo "holding up" the tower in Pisa. At least they are traveling and not sitting at home and bad mouthing another country.

You have many good suggestions but they lose their importance when you make such comments.

Griffey - go to Pisa and take all the photos you want, silly or otherwise.

I would include Lucca, actually I would stay in Lucca insted of Pisa. We spent four days there and enjoyed it..Then to VOlterra, San Gimi, Siena.

I am somewhat interested in architecture,(so maybe I fall into z's first category) and also interested in photography )so maybe that puts me into the second category) but the day my sister, brother-in-law and I spent in Pisa was wonderful, even thought it was bucketing rain part of the day and drizzling the rest.

When we got off the train, it was pouring, so we took a taxi to the cathedral area. On the way we asked the driver for a good restaurant off the tourist track. He wrote out an adddress. After we had explored the cathedral, baptistry, tower and nearby museum, we took another taxi. The driver took us down a zigzag of streets and then said it was as far as he could go and pointed us down a warren of alleys and promised us a good lunch.

Found the restaurant. It was full of local people. The wait staff was friendly and helpful with our ordering. This was also the placewhere my sister set off the emergency alarm in the ladies' room. While searching for the light switch in the dark, she pulled a string which was the "Help me!" alarm that set off all sorts of sirens, flashing lights and running staff.

After lunch, which was delicious, we lost ourselves in more little streets and finally arrived at the river and the walk back to the station. It was an enchanting afternoon,maybe not everryone's cup of tea, but one we thoroughly enjoyed. If that puts us in the a--h---- category, so be it.

I am glad to have seen one of the iconic tourist sites of Italy and don't regret a minute that we spent there.

we did something similar, irishface, though not with the help of any taxis. I really liked Pisa, much to my surprise, and it's not just the Tower and tourists.

Griffy,
Go if you feel you want to. We went and were quite disappointed by the throngs of sellers surrounding the Tower. I had some idealistic expectation that we would be the ONLY ones at the tower I guess. It is lovely though and there is nothing like it in the world. There are many here who loved their stay in Pisa. Just prepare yourself mentally for it before you go and just push on through. We loved Lucca, Volterra and San Gimignano, especially in the evening and early morning before those pesky tourists arrived.

I stopped in Pisa on my way to Liguria. Was there very early in the AM, left bags at Left Luggage and walked to the Leaning Tower. I loved the stroll and it was so early in the AM that I was practically alone at the Tower. I loved it but I can imagine it becomes a mob scene later in the day.

There's a lot more to the Piazze dei Miracoli site than the tower!! I would go to Pisa in a heartbeat if only to see the huge frescoes in the Campo Santo that show the coming of the plague and the battle of the demons and the angels over the souls of the dead. It's only a short train ride from Florence so you could easily do it as a day trip. Enjoy every moment of it!

I like HappyTrvlr's advice. I would also stay at Lucca, in a nice agriturismo, and use it as base to drive to the wonderful towns in Tuscany.
I liked other towns better than Pisa: Siena, Lucca, San Gimignano... however, it depends on your interests.

a good way to see the tower and the other buildings on the "campo dei miracoli" [ie field of miracles] is to stay overnight, when all the hawkers and vast majority of other tourists will have gone home. the buildings are all lit up, and it's very pretty.

if that appeals, an overnight stay is a good idea.

zepp, you are too intelligent to be a such a name caller. Just want to let you know that I'm going to complain about the above comment so you'll know who it is.

Griffy, my late husband and I thoroughly enjoyed Pisa. We stayed there for 2 nights and then again for 5 as a very agreeable base for train and bus travel.

If you can get a tour of the Duomo, you find out scads of wonderful things about the power that was Pisa and the artistry in the church. We needed to make an appointment to climb the tower and enjoyed it as well. The views and considering how Galileo made it to the top with 2 canonballs!

We stayed at the Royal Victoria Hotel and I've recommended often. Shabby? Yes. Old world charm and wonderful staff? By the bucketsfull!

Enjoy.

We don't really like Pisa but I think that is because we drove in circles and we tend to get a little irritated when DH is driving and I'm navigating. I would take the train from Florence for the day.

I personally think that Siena is a far better Tuscan base, but a car can be a problem if you are staying "in" Siena. There are wonderful agriturismo's around Siena and then you can be there for your whole 5 days in Tuscany stay. You will then have access to Siena and all of the small wonderful towns. Montelcino is only and hour south of Siena and of course there are amazing restaurants and wineries in the area. Volterra is only an hour away.... just head out a different direction each day.

We stayed at the Royal Victoria Hotel and I've recommended often. Shabby? Yes. Old world charm and wonderful staff? By the bucketsfull!>>

TDudette - DH and i stayed there when we did a driving tour of northern Italy an eon or so ago, and loved it - the bathroom was bigger than our bedroom at home, and the room itself was HUGE. we stayed there again a few years ago on the last night of a trip we did with our kids and it was dire - tiny rooms [the originals looked as if they had been divided in 3] tinier bathrooms, and no charm at all.

Never go back!

Sorry to hear that, annhig. The original family was operating it when we were there--hope that hasn't changed with the bad world-conomy. Anyone else have recent reveiws?

We stayed at the Villa La Principessa just outside Lucca, ( GREAT food, lovely old world accommodations, beautiful garden/grounds ) then drove to Pisa.

I think seeing the Tower in person rather than in a history book and viewing the gorgeous vistas from the top, make it worth a visit. Try to get there soon after it opens,especially if you go in the summer months, since parking and lines can be nightmarish.

That being said, I'm not sure which category I fall into. We definitely took pictures "holding up" the Tower, but I also got a kick out of zeppole's comments.

We will really only have one day to day trip out of florence b/c the tuesday will be a write off from travelling, wed we will tour around florence, thursday we are day tripping out to castello di verazzano (sp?) for a full day wine tour and then i will be busy with 'bridesmaid' duties the friday and saturday. Departing on sunday.
I dont really think I fall into either of those two categories, however I think I would regret not making the day trip to see pisa and lucca.
Thank you for all your comments and advice!

Please report back and have an excellent time!

Pisa has other attractions besides the Tower of Pisa (which is in an area that is obnoxiously mobbed with tourists). On the other hand, to Americans, the Tower is an icon and the kind of thing you would probably regret missing on a trip nearby. Seems worth at least a day trip (easy from Florence).

My husband and I recently spent six days in Florence visiting our son who was studying there. We had both visited Italy dozens of times previously, but neither of us had been to the Tower.

We ended up doing the Lucca/Pisa day trip - rented a car, left Florence at about 12:30 pm (when our son and his friend woke up), stopped in Lucca for lunch, shopping and a cool bike ride along the city walls. Lovely town - Would happily return and rent a house near there.

Then spent an hour or so in Pisa, photogenic just before sunset and not too crowded. We returned to Florence in time for dinner. A terrific day trip...Lucca was a delight and Pisa was no more touristy than Florence. BTW, the tower is not just an icon to Americans. The other tourists at that hour were exclusively Europeans and Asians.

Here's one Tower who rather enjoyed seeing the Tower many decades ago(before it's tilt was repaired).

Pay heed to Zeppo and never again visit anyplace that has more than one tourist present...and enjoy your vacations in your backyard. By the way, the Marx Brothers were named <b>Groucho</b> , Chico, Harpo and a straight man named Zeppo. Guess which of the names better fits this thread's "removee"

No disrespect meant at all, tower. You always give excellent advice, which has been most helpful for many of my trips. But Zeppole is a woman, and I am getting really tired of the Fodor's editors removing anything that has a bit of flavor or humor to it. So many of my favorite contributors have left or been banned. Is that really what we want here?

Weadles, I can't find any humor is categorizing people as AH'es if they are tourists. zepp's and others' more esoteric information is wonderful but not at the expense of the rest of us who <i><u>do</i> </u> want to visit the popular places.

I've asked her nicely to rephrase and she hasn't. As I mentioned above, I'm the one who complained.

My apologies, TDudette. I suppose she did go too far, and as described, I probably fall into her 'AH'es as tourists' categories. But I still think she offers lots of good, solid, "off-the-beaten-track" information, and it would be a shame if she disappeared totally from the dialogue.

now of course, my "paintstripper"quip is meaningless.

tower - i liked the unrepaired tower too. BTW, the 4th Marx bro, Zeppo, was a real Marx brother who became an engineer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppo_Marx

Weadles...I'm sure you'll agree for the most part that it's usually not WHAT Z says..but how she says it, i.e. her choice of words). Self-deprecation is an art, spiteful humor at the expense of someone not deserving it is something entirely different and quite unacceptable.

Keep on truckin' and travel 'til you unravel. That's the best any of us can do and hope for.
stu

Hey, wait a minute.

This is the first I've looked back at this thread and I see that my comment was removed.

It wasn't an attack on tourists who go to Pisa. I go to Pisa all the time to study the tower. It is one of my favorite religious structures in Italy.

My salty characterization of people who act like ------------- (supply your own flavorful word) was justified by their behavior.

There was nothing "spiteful" about my remark. It was probably removed for near obscenity. I'm surprised people have never noticed much of the behavior tourists engage in that ruins trips for other tourists. I don't agree (obviously) that it shouldn't be condemned for what it is. I also don't agree that people here who repeatedly offer really terrible and out of date advice should be indulged.

There are still travelers who don't fly on frequent flyer miles and points, who have to save from their salaries to travel, and who have a serious thoughtful purpose in coming so far from home to see great works of art.

Who are these other people to get in their way or, when they ask questions, give them instructions that is likely to end up costing them money and cheating them out of what they could have if they were given good advice?

I wish some of you who think you are so virtuous (?) would get on the case of people who are actually diminishing travel for other people. All you care about, it seems, is seeing my screen name and flailing at me.

Not that I care, but don't you care at all about these poor innocents who come to Fodor's asking quetions and never get anything but formula answers from __________s? (Use your imagination, those who have one.)

mbloggs is right in that there is more to the Piazza dei Miracoli than just the tower. If you ever have taken an Art History survey course, the last entry in Gothic art is generally the pulpit by Nicola Pisano in the Baptistry. It is considered one of the works that heralds the changes that will take place in Renaissance art. The pulpit by his son in the Duomo is equally notable. If you are interested in art, the Duomo group represent a high point.

So many people go to Pisa just to see the tower and come away with a bad impression. I was in that group on my first trip to Italy (my excuse for not seeing everything - it was hot and my kids were ready to move on).

If you just want to see the tower, though, enjoy--I do understand the need. It is so iconic.

tower,

I want to add that if you are reading my posts as attacks on tourists, you are misreading them. What I have been attacking is the sentimentality of tourism, the attitude of reveling in the destruction of places because it makes for a better tourist memory.

The tourism that says "I like my gladiator snapshot, so what's the beef?"

The tourism that can't see the tragedy that one of Europe's unarguably greatest artworks -- the Campo dei Miracoli -- suffering a cruel geological tragedy that caused an architectural wonder to sink on one side. There isn't an artist who ever breathed whose heart doesn't break to see that leaning, who can't imagine the horror of the artist who poured his art and soul into creating that work to last for all time. The artist created a miracle. The tourist sees a sentimental opportunity. A chance to memorialize his or her own ego by making the tower and its lean the point -- or worse, the joke.

At Pisa, the revelers is the worst kind of tourism are so plentiful, how can any person of sensitivity rather than sentimentality not see the obscenity and not want to use words fit to describe it?

<<<< There isn't an artist who ever breathed whose heart doesn't break to see that leaning, who can't imagine the horror of the artist who poured his art and soul into creating that work to last for all time. >>>>

Well, I spare a thought for the architect who realised, in time, that accepting the lowest bid for the construction of the Pisa tower foundations was not the best decision. Doubtless the tender evaluation docs would make interesting reading.

Ditto for the authorities in Venice, accepting the lowest bid for the supply of cement for the Campanile in the Piazza.

Ditto for the authorities in Rome who allowed the Coliseum to be treated as a quarry for a thousand years.

And it’s not known as “The Leaning Tower of Pisa” for nothing.

Looks like Griffy has decided to leave us to our bickering.

zeppole, please read my comments. This is a site for tourists. "AH" is not appropriate. Period. If you feel attacked, you are incorrect. It is your choice of words. I take full responsibility for objecting to them.

Zep, it's YOU who are constantly the uppity, know-it-all AH on all the threads here. Most of the nicest people on Fodors have seen you for what you are - an obsessed, assholic, better-than-you utter jerkaholic. We don't care at this point that you live in Italy and know better than we do because of it, because your totally know-it-all attitude and put-down practices and pernicious attitude and incendiary attitude make whatever information you might have secondary...actually irrelevant... to whatever information you might provide. You're a nutcase. Passive-aggressive, utterly humorless, with a dagger-like damnation for anyone wanting to do anything you deem even slightly "touristy." If you had your head on straight you'd realize a lot of people here want to tread the paths of many tourists behind them. They might actually get a lot out of that. You don't necessarily "find your inner Tuscan" by roaming around spa towns in lower Tuscany. Maybe you follow the trodden path and enjoy it because you're new to it. And will thrive on it! Your supposedly "superior" approach is not going to work for the vast majority of travelers, and berating travelers before they even take off on vacation is, well, kind of dumb and won't win you any awards.

Let's also add that the passive/aggressive issue is a problem. You always say that readers shouldn't listen to anything we say, but they should listen to YOU. Why would that be? Because YOU are so informed and we're not. Yuh. Go for it. You think rational people go on the internet and encounter a nutcase like you and think they can believe what's true? Hardly.

If you had any sense at all, which you obviously don't (actually, I think you think you're clever...think again, you're just nasty), instead of placing yourself as an adversary to normal, friendly, outward-seeking, Fodors-helping folks who have been to Italy and who clearly are wanting to help out others to do so, you'd back off on the insults and slams against well-meaning folks who want to help others have good trips to Italy or wherever (your recent posts on Paris are hilarious...as if you were some sort of expert there...NOT!)

There. And why aren't all Zepp's completely obnoxious posts deleted - oh, let me guess who hit the triangle.

And btw, zep, you have no freaking idea whom you have encountered in tower, and I'll leave it at that.

Can't you just zap this bitch? Loads of other websites have. Since you're busy zapping completely innocuous posts in The Lounge, why can't you just get rid of this obnoxious, lethal harridan?

Wow! Can I hit " like" . You go StCirq

Thanks, rfbk0 - happy Monday:)

StCirq:

Hmmmm...("lethal harridan"...gotta remember that one). Looks like you'll never be invited for dinner with Zep and family. Don't fret...she probably fills her Murano-glass fruit bowl with hand-grenades.
stu

I suppose that I’m possibly a typical tourist.

Visited the Pisa tower because it has a list to starboard, skipped the Last Supper, was amused at the saintly relics in a numerous churches, not that well informed about art (Peggy’s place in Venice did not do it for me), would have taken a gondola ride but for the cost, go searching for the odd and bizarre rather than the significant. Visited Italy the first time without barely reading a guide book or entering a gallery, was generally ill, or un-informed. Thought that the most important thing to see in the Vatican was the Sistine ceiling. Checked out Juliet’s balcony in Verona, looked for the Montague and Capulet villas (not found).

Tourists like me have existed forever. I can imaging that 11th Century pilgrims in Venice lazed around, ignored the significant sites and sights, made nuisances of themselves, got ripped off by hoteliers and tour organisers. Bitched about the lack of overhead space on ships, asked questions like “What’s to do in Venice, our next destination is the Holy Land”. And local residents would have poured scorn on them, someone would have said “Don’t miss the Temple of the Rock in Jerusalem”, while others said “Golgotha, schmolgotha, it’s just a boneyard – give it a miss”, others said “I would not go to Jerusalem if you paid me, but Jerez in Portugal is a good trip. Anyone advising Jerusalem clearly does not go there very often”.

It has always been such – so it’s not much point complaining now. However, even pilgrims would have appreciated friendly, well-meant advice - nor sarcasm.They may even have offered a prayer to St Zephyrinus (Pope, AD199 - 217)in the hope of getting such advice.

Stu, the bowl is filled with whatever the harridan feels is necessary to fuel her next volley. It doesn't matter. She's off the charts. She's nuts. You know it, I know it, all sensible people know it. Nuts. I'm halfway through your book..fabulous!