First Trip to Europe- NEED HELP OR IDEAS ON HOW TO PLAN
 

I need help planning my first trip to Europe in Spring for March or April 2012.

I am looking to visit Italy ( target choice pick: 1-Rome, 2-Vatican City, 3-Florence);
Greece (target choice pick: 1-Athens, 2- Greek Island (but which one is best for first timers); Spain (target choice pick: 1-Barcelona, 2- suggestion for a first timer; France (Target choice pick: 1- Paris).

How should I go about doing a package? Should I get with a travel agent or book it myself. I am hopig to get hotels and train rides to and from the cities I'm interest or would flying be a better choice? I'm hoping for a three week trip and if so what would be the best way to make sure I can get a chance to see most of the city as I am sure I'll miss some spots and of course would need to return for a second trip. Any ideas or suggestion would be helpful!!!

We travelled with our family to Greece in 2009; and I found that booking rooms in Athens was relatively simple online. However, I didn't have the first clue on where to book our islands trips. I contacted Fantasy Travel in Athens, and they were spectacular. They made everything really easy and booked us on a flight to Mykonos, our rooms there, then our ferry to santorini, rooms there and then our flight back to athens.

Do you want to visit all 4 of these countries! You're covering a great deal of area in 3 weeks. First thing I'd do is cut 1/2 of the destinations and focus more on a couple of geographies. This will allow you to see a little more than just the large cities.

My advice to a first-time traveler is to get a guidebook or two covering several of the countries/cities you want to visit. Offhand, I think you are planning on visiting too many places.

Personally, I like to visit one country at a time, though there are trips when I visit several countries. Those are always repeat visits where I've been before and want to see a specific sight that I missed in the past.

You need to look at maps and/or consult Michelin.com to see about distances between the different cities/countries. Many first-timers forget that they lose a day at the beginning of the trip and another at the end as they fly from the States to Europe and back and that a day or at least a half-day is lost on each day you change destinations--packing, checking out, traveling, checking in, etc.

You won't be able to see "most" of any city. I think the best you can do is to see some of any given city. In many of the cities where you'd want to see a particular gallery or museum--the Uffizi in Florence, for instance, or the Vatican Museum in Rome--you'll spend some time waiting in line to get into the place.

I think your idea of returning for a second trip is a good one, but if you're anything like most of the posters on this board, you'll return for a third, then a fourth, then a fifth...etc.

Many of the regular posters on this board are people who get a lot of enjoyment out of planning their own trips, but since this is your first time overseas, a travel agent may suit you.

I'm sure other posters will give you further opinions and information.

Costco.com has a package that includes Rome, Paris and Barcelona http://www.costcotravel.com/#13_euro...PARROM20102601

You can customize these packages to include as many nights in each place as you want. You'd probably have to add Greece on your own, though.

Do not book anything in advance at this point, especially not a package or a tour. Wait until it is clearer whether Greece and perhaps Italy will have euros as their currency or some other currency.

Here is a start. Pick the basics first---WHEN, HOW LONG, HOW MUCH$$:
http://www.slowtrav.com/europe/bob_planning.htm

zeppole - do you really think Italy is in danger of being in the same situation as Greece? I have seen numerous people (on this board and elsewhere) suggest that planning a trip to Greece in the next year may be a bad idea due to the current situation. But although it's in the news here about Italy's political and financial troubles, I didn't think it was nearly as bad as to consider not booking a trip there.

That aside, tiav, what you are proposing is not really reasonable due to the skewed ratio of travel time to time at destinations. The train rides even between Barcelona and Paris or Paris and Rome are very long meaning you'd want to fly between them. And of course Greece is even further. You pretty much will loose an entire day when you travel between those countries so I would limit it to three at most. Really two would be better. And each of those countries has very different regions. So getting some guide books and skimming them, perhaps watching some travel videos (the Rick Steves series is good) or looking at photos will help you decide.

Some possibilities would be: Barcelona (6 days) - fly to Paris (5 days)- fly to Italy and do Rome, Florence and Tuscany (10 days). Or you could fly into Paris -train to Provence/Cote D'Azure - train to Italian Riveria - train to Florence - train to Rome. Whatever you do, book open jaw tickets so you don't have to back track.

You can definitely plan this on your own if you're interested. Start with Rick Steve's guide to europe. (I'd do the book over the video. Will give you all of the nuts and bolts you need.)

One of the (many) things I love about him is that he is opinionated, which will help you prioritize. Your priorities will probably be different than his, and so you'll allocate your time differently than he suggests, but it'll give you a place to get started.

Rick also has great maps which show how much time it takes to get from place to place and pros/cons of airfare. That will help you figure out whether you're willing to spend so much of your vacation in transit vs. experiencing a place a little deeper.

Good luck!

I think the situation in Italy is more serious than Greece, but I don't know how much that would influence my travel plans. If anything, I might think twice about going to Rome. Without intending to, we were close to various demonstrations there last month, and it affected our plans a couple of days.

But I wouldn't want to be there if/when the euro implodes, and I think that is the potential problem in pre-paid bookings that zeppole is implying.

marking for later comment

It is a good idea to get moving on things now, but I will say that what you really need to do is make a list of things you want to see/do. Then look at your time. Each time you move between cities you will lose at least 1/2 day- check-out, terminal, transit, check-in. In addition, each move probably will increase the costs due to transportation costs.

Now there are things you can do that will salvage both time and money, biggest being trying to do night trains with either a couchette or compartment. That way you travel and sleep at the same time. You save on a hotel room, but you may or may not be very comfortable. I am about 60, over 6' tall and while I don't hate couchettes and sleep ok in them, they aren't the Ritz. Younger and smaller you'll probably do fine.

So, by looking at your initial desires, in a 21 day trip you have 7 locations. That gives you 2.5 days per, assuming you are not counting your first and last travel days. Take those out and you are down to 2 days per location. See how that collapses the possibilities? Can you really experience Rome or Paris in less than 3 days each? Yes, you can do a National Lampoon Vacation, but you really don't get to understand the locations.

Hopefully this will give you a more focused look on your plans. Then we can help more.

dave

I would choose two countries at most for this trip. Save the other two for that second trip. Then go to the library and check out some guidebooks for each country. I agree that for first-timers Rick Steves is a good choice.

I suspect Europe is going to attempt to shore up the euro within the next few weeks. Whether it will work is another question.

To get airline tickets, go on line. When you start to search for tickets, be sure you check the multi-city or ,multiple destinations box at the beginning. That allows you to fly into one place and home from another.

One problem with travel agents is that they don't have listings for the many small hotels and B&Bs you can find in Europe, so what they come up with will be very expensive. So using the Internet for accommodations can be very useful.

After you have looked at some guide books, come back here and ask specific questions about the places you decide to go. Good luck!

isabel

My advice was (and is) not to plunk down euros in advance until it is clear that the euro is gong to be the currency where you are going in the time frame you are going. I suggest reading the Financial Times or The Economist for best predictions. Much of the New York Times coverage is good too, in its columnists and business section.

As for strikes, transportation and service cutbacks, museum closures, street demonstrations, possible riots and other austerity-induced disruptions, the next two months will yield a better picture, for not only Greece and Italy, but other destinations in Europe and the UK as well.

European trains are fantastic and easy to use - a self-done rail trip provides travel at your pace and schedule and not so tour bus - bus tours are notorious for early reveilles as they try to pack so much into the itinerary to entice folks - but are a few hours in say Florence enough for you?

anyway here are some sites for planning a train trip in those countries - superb sites IMO - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check out the latter's free and superb IMO online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of rail-oriented possible itineraries in those areas.

Greek trains suck so buses are often better there - you may want to end up in Greece (lots of overnight ferries from Italy if not flying) and then do an open jaw air ticket flying back from Athens and landing in say Spain and working your way overland by train. That much train travel dictates investigating railpasses, which are also valid on overnight ferries between Italy and Greece, or at least many of them.

A first trip to Europe is a mind blowing experience. With 3 weeks I'd do no more than 2 countries. Trying to do too much on a first visit to Europe will be a very frustrating experience. Of course you could do a pre packaged tour so that everything is decided for you, but to me that's not the way to experience Europe. Hopping from one city to another with a tour becomes a big blur after a few days. Doing it on your own is much more fun, and is a great adventure. For a first timer, France and Italy would be a good choice. One thing I would recommend is allowing for some 'down' time in the countryside. I've found that unwinding in a beautiful setting like Tuscany or rural France can be the most enjoyable part of your trip - it's where you really get to experience the people and essence of the country. I would pick 3 cities (Rome, Venice, Paris?), plan on about 2-5 nights in each, and then research other memorable places to stay - a chateau in the Loire Valley, a farmhouse in Tuscany, a b&b in Cinque Terre, etc. You can use trains to get from city to city, and you might want to consider renting a car for a few days to explore the countryside so that you can visit wineries, monastaries,castles, etc. You can do it all on your own, it's not really that difficult. First get a good map and several guidebooks for each country you want to visit, then do lots and lots of reading and web research.

I am looking to visit Italy ( target choice pick: 1-Rome, 2-Vatican City, 3-Florence);
Greece (target choice pick: 1-Athens, 2- Greek Island (but which one is best for first timers); Spain (target choice pick: 1-Barcelona, 2- suggestion for a first timer; France (Target choice pick: 1- Paris).>

I would generally agree with zootsi but the OP's wish list does not really involve much of spain - just Barcelona not far from France and only Athens and a Greek isle

they could fly into say Barcelona, take the train to Madrid with a day trip or two to Toledo or Segovia or Avila as possibles - take the overnight train to Paris - then an overnight train to Florence from Paris (saving travel time in day and hotel costs) - perhaps do a Tuscany hill town day trip like Siena and then to Rome and Vatican City, in the center of Rome and then either fly to Greece or go to Ancona by train and take the overnight ferry to Greece - most of these ferries stop in Corfu - the quintessential 'Greek isle' OP wants to include - then ferry onto Patras and mainland for bus or train to Athens. Fly home from Athens. In 3 weeks I think that is not too fast paced

I think you should drop one country, either Greece or Spain. The remaining three can be a line, sort of (France-Italy-then Greece or Spain at the end). I think for Greece, if you really want to go there, you should do both islands and Athens at least, so that would be best for a different trip. Unless you are just going there for some vacation and then there are several islands that could be good (eg, Santorini). That's just too much to combine with the others IMO, and would eat up too much time, even if flying. If you are going to the islands, you might want a ferry/short cruise to get the whole idea of the Aegean sea, etc.

YOu could do Barcelona-Paris-some place in Italy by flying between them (eg, Easyjet I know does Barcelona-Paris). Trains would take too long if you want those major cities. I'm sure there is some cheap flight Paris to Rome or Venice or Florence. YOu could allocate one week per country, why not. Maybe more for Italy and do Barcelona 4 days, Paris 6 days, then Italy the rest as you could visit a couple cities there.

YOu won't find any package that will combine what you want, it is too peculiar (and I don't mean odd, just not a common thing that would sell).

I presume the problem with prepaid bookings would not be the actual currency (paid is paid, regardless of which currency it was paid in), but that if a country changes over from euro to drachma, for example, it could affect prices a lot. So maybe you'd get something cheaper in that example (Greece).

We were talking to our financial advisor today and he suggested that if Italy and Greece revert to their old currencies, they will want to devalue them, to have a financial advantage. That would be good news for the rest of us.

If Greece and mainly Italy should revert to their old currency, this would be a disaster for all Eurozone countries, and misery for the Italians and Greeks.
I am sure this is NOT something you wish that will happen, just to save a few Euros on your accommodation.
This would definitely not be good news for me, being Greek !!!!

And if the countries with weak economies dropped out of the eurozone, the value of the € would skyrocket. That wouldn't be good news for travellers to countries that remain in the eurozone, either.
:-)

clausar,I did not say I was wishing this, I was saying it is a likely outcome which would benefit us if we travel there. And it is true that the Euro's value against the dollar could go up, too, in this instance, among travel to the rest of the region more expensive.

charnees,

Italy and Greece leaving the Euro would have a catastrophic impact on French banks, causing them to need to leave the Euro, at which point, there is no Euro -- and at the point there is no Euro, there is only a financial panic followed by a global depression of the worst possible sort (which may happen even if the euro stays propped up for a while).

So while it is true that while the plane is going down and disintegrating mid-air you end up with more leg room in economy class, it's actually not much of a benefit.

I would avoid Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal because of the economic situations in these countries. Why not go to
Paris and maybe take the train to Amsterdam and Brugge for a few days? Another suggestion is Paris coupled with a hotel in
Nice. You could easily take day trips to other interesting towns along the coast. You could also choose Paris, Alsace and
a little of SW Germany. In other words, why choose a country
where strikes etc are probable.

Pat

Pat-I've spent 5 weeks this year in Spain and never had an issue with strikes. That said I don't think any country is immune to strikes, even France (Air France comes to mind). Strikes are more common in Europe but they are often planned far in advance and those of us on the travel boards can keep track of any potential problems so we're not caught unprepared.

I'm curious about why you would avoid a whole country due to the economic situation...what is it that you are afraid of? Should we be avoiding the US because of its current issues? I understand not prepaying in advance but not the avoidance of a whole country.

If Greece and the other PIIGS break out of the Euro you may as well add Germany, France, UK and the rest of Europe to the list - not to mention what would happen to banks in North America that have lent money to any of the European countries' banks (which is a lot). This isnt limited to the PIIGS at this point...we are all going to be in for some tough times if this thing comes apart in a disorganised fashion...

I also feel you are trying to cover to much ground for three weeks.

I would suggest making a good friend of a travel agent, at least for your air fare. Remember you don't have to buy from them but if they do their work well and find you a flight at a good price then buy it. You can also get a lot of advice from them. Still check on line for better prices and if forum for recommendations on hotels. I would also plan the trip myself.

There were strikes in the UK this week, not Italy. European newspapers are predicting strikes for Belgium.

People are just recycling these old scripts and cliches about Europe (which is one reason why the economic situation isn't being solved. It's really Plato's cave.)

April would be better. Early May even better, but no later than early May.

You've gotten some really good advice here: you'll not be able to see everything. Most of us have been going back to Europe again and again and haven't seen more than a "thimbleful" of everything Europe has to offer. So, think about your own pleasure, what appeals to you and then find those cities/countries that most match your own desires. Two countries is optimal, three is max.

If the train ride is about 8 to 10 hours, then an overnight train makes sense, both in time and money. Longer than that and it can become very tiring, so you'll need more recovery time on arrival. Best thing to do is to fly the longer distances. Look into skyscanner.net to find budget airfares.

Plato's cave may have dropped behind some of our readers so all they saw was the shadow of your point Zeppole.

"but other destinations in Europe and the UK as well" .... Uk is in Europe, physically, geographically and politically.

Anyway, the options look like
1) fiscal union in the north (finland, Netherlands, germany and a few baltic countries) based on a hard euro,
2) France stuffed into the hard euro but not belonging
3) the rest Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain into a linked soft euro like the old ERM leading to either joining the hard euro or going back to their old currency

I think you can book holidays just limit how much of your cash leaves your bank account.

Well, zeppole, you'll have to forgive me, but, for my serious reading, I had set aside "The Republic" in favor of first "The Prince" and then Thucydides last year and therefore haven't read "The Republic" again for many years.

Besides which, when I started writing my post, your post hadn't appeared yet. Nevertheless, that's not an excuse.

Yours is a good example of what is happening in Europe right now - the "shadows" - but I'm not certain it's "cliches" since there has never been an European unity such as the EU, so everything is "new" and not a "cliche". But then there's so much about Europe that I don't understand, maybe you can help me understand why all this is "old".

Oh right, bb. I forgot. I should quit listening to Angela Merkel (and so should everybody else). Apparently you already have!

easytraveler,

I have no idea what your post is trying to say. Mine was responding to wanttogo, who seriously suggested going to strike-threatened Belgium instead of Italy as a way of avoiding strikes. That's evidence of how old stereotypes and corny cliches about various European countries (Belgium is orderly, Italy is disorderly) that have created policies that don't engage present realities, and therefore don't help anybody.

I have to agree with Zeppole on this. Other than a full-blown civil war, I always look at places as "what the heck, isn't any worse than Florida". Oh, and I've been in a couple of civil wars, but still managed to enjoy the people and locations. Nicaragua and Panama. Was in Santo Domingo during the taxi riots, but also in Miami during the Liberty City riots. Hmmm...Come to think of it, maybe they were following me way back when.

:-)

dave

People - this is a travel advice forum, not an economic discussion forum. Talk about getting off topic!

yes of course off topic but advice to reconsider going to areas that promise to be rife with strikes and if the euro falls in Greece some momentary currency problems perhaps - if going carry a good stock of hard currency like dollars or euros in case ATMs and banks are strike or there is a momentary changeover back to the Drachma, God forbid.

I think it is very much on topic. Some of these posters live in Europe and their advice is very much appreciated by those of us planning trips to Europe in the coming months.

I can't read anymore these posts about Greece going back to the Drachma, have been reading warnings to people who were asking for advice here the whole summer long, about a bankruptcy of Greece etc, NOTHING happened.
More than 16 Mi. travellers will visited Greece in 2011, which is an increase of 10% compared to 2010.
Living in Europe doesn't give more knowledge about what is happening in Greece right now, i am living in Greece and read every day controversial opinions from analysts from all over the world. We have no idea which theory to take seriously, of the hundreds we read or hear in the media ....
I bet most of people in this forum have no clue what Greeks ( or Portuguese or soon Italians) are going through right now, because they don't live in this country.

Best think would be to calm down, and NOT to seek advice from this forum here, where no one is an expert to give you a competent answer on economical issues. This is and should stay a travel forum.

Hi Tiav,

Will also be there for several weeks in April go a lot.

Always pick 2 or 3 countries and self-guide by regional train

cheap fun. www.seat61.com rarely fly long legs skyscanner.net

ricksteves.com good euroewbie info tours

when I was new I enjoyed an overview tour with Globus

affordabletours.com less hassle safer nice guides.

Financial/civil unrest may occur so insuremytrip.com

to be safe... Happy Travels PM if I may help further.

www.eurocheapo.com great budget site info if u self-guide...

zeppole: just forget it. I was in a hurry and trying to write something with my weird sense of humor, since bilboburgler's post came just after mine.

On going back and reading my post, it does sound strange, so let's just drop it, shall we? It'll take too long and be quite pointless to explain what I was trying to say. Probably will muddle things further.