First trip - appreciate feedback
 

Hello,
Our family (2a,2c) is planning our first trip to Europe from mid September to early October.
After some research I think this will be best for us:
London - 4 nights
paris - 5 nights
agvinon - 2 nights
nice - 2 nights
Vienna -2 nights
grindelwald - 3 nights
lucern or Zurich - 2 nights (then fly out late back to Australia)

I initially planned to travel from Paris-Nice-Turin-Milan-Grindelwald
However the train ride from Milan to Grindelwald will take over 5 hours due to some track works at the tine we plan to travel.
So detour to Vienna and agvinon ( proximity to Paris and a provincial French town that isn’t too touristy?).
I would appreciate feedback on the revised itinerary! Also welcome any other recommendations.

Things we enjoy doing on holidays: hiking, cycling,museum,library( one kid loves books nd libraries!), theme park, shopping,eating out.
The kids are not too young and can do long days. also we don’t speak French 😂 but sure can use the google translate app.
Thank you!

""I would appreciate feedback on the revised itinerary! Also welcome any other recommendations.""

Easy. Eliminate about 2-3 destinations, and choose destinations that are closer to each other.

You have 1 1/2 days in Avignon, 1 1/2 days in Nice, 1 to 1 1/4 days in Vienna, 2 1/2 days in Grindelwald, and 1 1/2 days in Lucerne. That's about 2-3 days "to few" at each destination. If you will be in Avignon, Nice, Vienna, or Lucerne on a Sunday or Monday when most shops will be closed - you will be disappointed.

See the attached itinerary for Avignon & Nice.

Stu Dudley

Welcome to Fodors. This is very fast paced -- how old are the children?

Once you realize 2 nights will net you one full day in a place and 4 nights in London will really net you about 2 full days when you consider arrival formalities and jet lag for at least some of you after traveling all the way from OZ.

So in 'real life" what you have is:
London - 4 nights. Maybe 2 full days when everyone is operating on all cylinders.
paris - 5 nights = 4.5 days
agvinon - 2 nights = 1 full day
nice - 2 nights = 1 full day
Vienna -2 nights = 1 full day
grindelwald - 3 nights = 2 full days
lucern or Zurich - 2 nights = 1 full day

I would add at least 2 nights to London (which is TERRIFIC family destination and especially for all the [free] museums, galleries and libraries). I might add one night to Paris but that depends on what other places you cut out. And finally I'd lose at least two of your other destinations.

Honestly, I would look at say London, Paris and Amsterdam and just do them in this time, the scatter gun approach across Europe really does not work. You spend more time travelling than holidaying

Stu has linked his wonderful resource re Provence/etc -- lots of good info but don't let it overwhelm you. it is nearly 50 pages long and covers just a teensy part of your original plan.

Vienna seems an outlier in this plan. Are you thinking of taking the train to Vienna, and then to Grindelwald?

You are short-changing Vienna. I like the suggestion of London - Paris - Amsterdam. With more time in each city you would have the time for day trips. From Paris Provins could provide the French provincial town, and a great deal of the Netherlands is a day trip away from Amsterdam.

IMO it doesn't make any sense to fly from NCE toi VIE and from VIE to ZRH for a stay at Vienna of only1 day.
Skip at least Vienna. I would skip Nice too and proceed from Avignon by train to Grindelwald..
Note that train rides to well hidden Grindelwald take always a lot of time:
3 hrs from Zurich airport
6 1/4 hrs rom Paris
7 1/2 hrs from Avignon
10 hrs from Nice (even if there are no works on the railway line)
11 hrs from Vienna

20 nights, 7 destinations... and you specifically mention "hiking, cycling, museum, library (one kid loves books and libraries!), theme park, shopping, eating out." Other than eating out, the other activities require time in each place that you haven't given yourselves.

Would you fly from Nice to Vienna? How would you get from Vienna to Grindelwald??? This part of the itinerary doesn't really make sense to me.

I agree with the suggestions to reduce the number of destinations and pick places that are closer together.

Good luck about not finding Avignon too touristy. But it is a lovely place and definitely worth a visit.

I agree with the other posters. Your plan is short-changing all of these destinations that are far afield and I can't imagine there is an easy way to get from Vienna to Grindelwald which is if I recall rather small. Neither Avignon or Nice are in close proximity to Paris although there is high speed rail service out of Paris.

I also agree that you are trying to do too much. London needs an extra day or two, especially if you would like to spend maybe a day in the English countryside to see something like Stonehenge or the Cotswolds…Definitely skip Vienna. Add the rest of your time to Provence with 2 extra days in Nice and the rest of your time in someplace like St Remy with a car. Alternatively just do London, Paris and Amsterdam as suggested above. There is Paris Disneyland and Park Asterix near Paris for theme parks. London has Legoland plus Warner brothers etc. lastly you could skip the south of France and do London Paris and Switzerland.

Sorry i made a bad mistake 😂 should be Geneva not Vienna!
isince Grindelwald is a bit out of the way, I think it’s best to fly from nice to Geneva, take a rest and then train to Grindelwald.

Hello,
thanks for your feedback.
We are stopping in Dubai for two nights so hopefully won’t be too jet lagged arriving in London.
i am not intending to travel to English country side so thinking 4 nights is enough - at least for this trip.
Only other places I could skip is either Avignon, nice or Geneva…
Avignon and Geneva were added more as transit points 😉

Hello,
sorry it meant to be Geneva, not Vienna!
I was thinking of flying from Nice to Geneva. Take a shirt break then train to Grindelwald.
we fly out from Zurich so want to spend quality time in switzeland.

All that does is trade one full day in Vienna to one full day in Geneva (and easier transport). All of the other issues remain. Still too many places in too few days, not accounting for jet lag, etc.

I agree London would be awesome for our family! We could come back for more on the next trip!
This time I would like the kids to be exposed to the culture and languages other than English.
They are not too young but not too old to appreciate the English country side 😂 They enjoy the cosmopolitan more than the country side at this age.
they are 12,15 yo.
by the way, I only agreed to go to Paris Disneyland and no other theme park!

Why don't you lay out your "current" itinerary so others can comment. I have no idea as to what you have eliminated & what you have included.
Format something like this:

- Sunday Sept 8. Land in London and spend 5 nights.
- Friday Sept 13. Take the train to Paris & visit Paris & Disneyland for 5 nights
- Wed Sept 18. Take the 9:38 TGV train to Avignon that arrives at 12:17 & spend 3 nights in Avignon
Visit Avignon, Arles (by train), and find a small van tour of the Luberon hill villages.
- Sat Sept 21. Taxi to the Avignon TGV station and take the 10:20 TGV to Nice that arrives at 2:00. Spend 4 nights in Nice
Visit Nice, Villefranche, Antibes and Rothschild villa
- Wed Sept 25. Take the 10:00 flight to Geneva that arrives at 12:00 (guess by me). Spend 1 night in Geneva (not one of my favorites)
- Thurs Sept 26. Take the train from Geneva that departs at 9:59 & arrives in Grindelwald at 1:40. Two train changes. Stay in the Jungfrau region for 4 nights in Grindelwald or Murren (my choice).
- Mon Sept 30.Take the train that departs at 10:17 and arrives in Zurich at 12:58. One train change.
- Tues Oct 1 fly home.

Consider flying from Nice to Zurich instead of to Geneva. Might be better flight & train connections to Grindelwald.

Stu Dudley

OP, what are your actual plans for each city and location? That will determine how long you have for each.

For example, 5 nights in Paris is great, and gives 4 full days for sightseeing and with one day devoted to D-land (and it will eat up the entire day) that means you only have 3 days left for Paris itself - 2 if you include Versailles (not sure if that is a plan) but that gives you VERY little time to hit many of the major sites in Paris. Even 3 days might be pushing it, imho. It is still very much high season in Sept/Oct in Paris.

Same logic needs to be applied to London, depending on your family's sightseeing goals.

Why the transit stop in Geneva? Do you actually want to see the city or have something any of you want to visit? You'd might be better off plugging through to the actual destination (wherever that may be) so you do not waste any time checking in/out of lodging and all other logistics associated with a one-night stay when you could just be where you want to be, albeit if transit actually works.

How do you intend do have library time? Does the reader want to just see the books or spend time actually reading some? I practically had to be dragged from the Library of Congress and the NY Public Library, but that is me.

""Why the transit stop in Geneva? Do you actually want to see the city or have something any of you want to visit? You'd might be better off plugging through to the actual destination (wherever that may be) so you do not waste any time checking in/out of lodging and all other logistics associated with a one-night stay when you could just be where you want to be, albeit if transit actually works.""

I think the final destination from Nice is Grindelwald. If so - using Rome2Rio, the best way is through Basel and you can accomplish it in a reasonable amount of time. But it might eat up most of the day, unless the teens can get an early start.
https://www.rome2rio.com/

We visited Versailles in early Oct a few years ago - and it was mobbed!!! It really takes more than a day to visit it all. We took 2 half-days - one for the gardens & another for the interior. Reserve tickets ahead.

Stu Dudley

Several years ago we took our teen age son on a similar trip. We were gone about a month. Also did it in reverse. Flew into Zurich. Stayed 3 nights in Lucerne (visited Pilatus- there is a rope park on the way down to Kriens via gondolas), then on to the BO (we stayed in Wengen, but Grindelwald is fine). Lots of activities in the OB area for teens. We traveled on to Montreux on Lake Leman (Lake Geneva). From there you can visit Olympic Museum, Chillon Castle, Gruyeres (fantastic HR Giger Museum--man who designed the aliens for the movie Alien), Broc (chocolate factory). Also, from there you can visit Glacier 3000 (it is at 3000 meters altitude). Glacier 3000 has the the Peak Walk that is awesome. From there we went to Park via TVG. We spent 4 nights in Paris. One day was a trip to Disneyland Paris. I grew up in the shadow of the Matterhorn (Disneyland Anaheim) and Disneyland Paris was a very different adventure. Our son had a blast. Finished up in London for several days. Plenty to do in London.

I researched all the areas and gave our son a choice on several museums and activities. That helped him to become engaged in our travels. He also read up on the history of London and Paris with helped him to decide which museums or activities to choose.

Have a great trip to Europe.

You lose so much time (and money) taking a lot of transportation. Also, two nights in a location really only gives you one full day of sightseeing. I think your plan is too busy to be enjoyable. I would skip Avignon, Nice and Geneva on this trip if those aren't top priorities. You could fly non-stop from Paris on an inexpensive airline to Vienna or possibly take a night train. You could stay in Vienna 3 or 4 nights and then head to Switzerland.

Also, since you are flying from Australia (which is such a long haul) I would add another day or two to London. Those first days will be quite a blur with jet lag and acclimating to the new time zone.

Now things become doable. But it's still a lot of train travel (at least 4 hrs door to door for each leg)l:
London - Paris: 2 1/2 hrs + 1 hr check in time + 1 hr for transfers hotel - railway station
Paris - Avignon 2 3/4 hrs + 1 hr for transfers hotel - railway station
Avignon - Geneva 3 3/4 hrs + 1/2 hr for transfer hotel - railway station
Geneva - Grindelwald 3 1/2 hrs via Bern (boring itinerary) resp 5 hrs 20 min via Golden Pass Express
Grindelwald - ZRH 3 hrs via Bern (boaring itineraqry) resp 4 hrs via Brunig - Lucerne

^^^“How do you intend do have library time? Does the reader want to just see the books or spend time actually reading some? I practically had to be dragged from the Library of Congress and the NY Public Library, but that is me.”

Good question from Travel_Nerd - OP says family doesn’t speak French……

The library bits are really going to be a 'London thing'. The British Library is a must -- the Treasures Gallery alone is worth an hour or two. Plus there have special exhibits (that sometimes require advance booking). The Reading Room at the British Museum is a must-see (it was the British Library before redevelopment -- the British Library is in a modern building just up the road from Pancras). Unfortunately - tours of the round Reading Room are only offered on Tuesdays.

Thanks for your suggestions. I will definitely look into those places you mentioned.
wish our kids are into history (like I am!)
By the way which month did you travel? I am a bit concerned about the activities we can do if Grindelwald if the weather is bad.

You are right …perhaps if we skip Avignon it could be like this:
train: london-Paris (stay 5 n)
air: Paris-nice (stay 3)
air: nice - geneva ( stay 2)
train: Geneva- Grindelwald ( stay 3)
train: Grindelwald-lucerne (stay 3n)
train: lucerne-Zurich airport (fly home late @22:00)

Oh yes, I see that now. I was conflating two statements in OP’s last paragraph.

Oh I never thought of Vienna before but looking at the attractions, I am definitely considering it now.
Previously, I was thinking of doing a loop between Paris- Nice-Milan-Grindelwald but the train disruption made me plan the alternative route through Geneva instead.

Our destination is Grindelwald and Lucerne before flying out of Zurich.
The cities in between are added because:
- Avignon : half way between Paris and Nice
- Nice: I would like to take a side trip to Monaco
- Geneva: nice to Geneva by air is so cheap and Geneva to Grindelwald is more straightforward by train

I guess I could start looking at what to do in Vienna and change the itinerary like this:
paris-Vienna(air)
vienna-Zurich(air)
zurich-grindelwald
grindelwald-lucerne
lucerne-Zurich

as you can see, Geneva was added because I didn’t want to backtrack Zurich-Grindelwald-zurich…

I don't care for Avignon or Nice, though certainly there are marvelous villages and landscape within striking distance which are stunning.

You are right about the final destination is Grindelwald and Lucerne.
I thought there would be more to do in Geneva compared to Basel. I checked the airfare from nice to Geneva and it’s incredibly cheap hence more the reason to fly there.
thanks for the tip on Versailles. We will only do a day there because unfortunately our kids are not as interested in history and French gardens as much as we are.

Yep, my thoughts as well. They are more like a base for us to do day trips.

When we stayed in Murren in the Jungfrau for 4 nights many years ago, it snowed one entire day. This was in late September. We never saw the Jungfrau peaks during the entire 4 days. We took the train to the top and did the lookout thing - and all we saw was white nothing. Very disappointing. Next day we headed to Interlaken and did laundry - good thing to do on a rainy/snowy day. On 2 prior trips we saw "white nothing" once, and beautiful mountains once. Bern is our favorite large city in Switzerland. Never been to Zurich & Basel.

You still have waaaaayyyy too much travel in your itinerary, IMO. We visit Europe at least 2-3 times every year on 3-5 week stays each trip. You might be visiting two of my "most over-rated" cities in Europe - Monaco & Geneva. Closely followed by Lucern (but the surroundings are OK) .

Stu Dudley

For London, we plan to visit the landmarks, ie Big Ben, do some shopping, see a musical, go to at least one museum and the British library.
We did enjoy the NY public library, and library of congress, and felt didn’t have enough time there!
We are not definitely wanting to cover as much as we can in each city. It’s more like just getting a feel of the place to plan for a return, or not.
In the past we have travelled to the same city twice or even three times just because we like it so much. Europe is a fair distance from Oz so it’s a bit difficult to do multiple returns but with children, sight seeing isn’t as attractive as actually doing some physical activities 😁

My thoughts are just the opposite. Although Aix is our favorite large city in Provence, Avignon is a close second. We've spent 26 weeks in Provence. Four weeks just last year. And we will be in Nice for 9 nights a week from tomorrow. And then in the fabulous Nice Hinterland for 2 weeks after that.

I think that adding Vienna is kind of going against the advice we are all trying to give you which is, you have TOO MUCH travel already. Honestly less is more and this trip will end up as a route march.

Big Ben isn't any more than a couple of minute 'walk-by'. You will see it from lots of viewpoints. What about some more important landmarks?? Little things like -- maybe the Tower of London? I cannot imagine taking kids to London without including the Tower - or Hampton Court Palace -- a major kid friendly place including historical characters, the Tudor kitchens, maze, etc. The British Museum (mummies and lots of other great family 'stuff')? The Natural History and/or next door Science Museum? Buskers in Covent Garden? The Warner Brothers Studio. The Eye. London Transport Museum. All you mention are Big Ben, shopping and the Library?

It does seem you are just dragging the kids around from place to place.

I suggested Vienna because you listed it in your original post and I thought it was a "must." If it is not, I would then recommend focusing on London, Paris and Switzerland. It seems you have 20 days? A week in London would really help your family recover from the flight and enjoy more of the highlights.

KT, the OP clarified in post numbers 13-15 that listed Vienna as a mistake and meant Geneva. Also clarified that they will be landing in London from Dubai for 2 days and hopes it will assist with jetlag.

To the OP, you seem to be set on your days and destinations. Many have provided advice, which is what we understand you're looking for. I am getting the impression that you really just want to carry on as you originally planned; and, it does not seem as if any of us can change your mind. It's your trip, you do you.

Dubai to London is still an 8 hour/3 time zones flight -- so less jet lag than OZ > UK but not no jet lag for a lot of people . . .