First time to Europe, your help will be greatly appreciated!
 

Hello!

My wife & I is planning a trip to Europe for the first time for our honeymoon starting mid September. Our travel plan is as follows:

Day 1 : Arrive in London @ 7:30pm
Day 2 : London
Day 3 : London
Day 4 : London (Local tour to Stonehenge & Bath)
Day 5 : London
Day 6 : By flight, arrive Amsterdam @ 10:30am
Day 7 : Amsterdam
Day 8 : Amsterdam (Day trip to Haarlem)
Day 9 : Amsterdam
Day 10 : Afternoon Train to Brussels
Day 11 : Brussels
Day 12 : Afternoon train to Paris
Day 13 : Disneyland Paris (Disneyland Park)
Day 14 : Disneyland Paris (Walt Disney Studios Park)
Day 15 : Paris (or maybe disneyland again)
Day 16 : Paris
Day 17 : Paris, plan to take overnight train to Venice @ night, but i've not fully understood the booking website yet. If not workable maybe will book a flight on 18th day morning.
Day 18 : Venice
Day 19 : Venice
Day 20 : Venice
Day 21 : Afternoon train to Florence
Day 22 : Florence
Day 23 : Afternoon train to Pisa, arrive Rome in evening
Day 24 : Rome
Day 25 : Rome
Day 26 : Rome
Day 27 : Rome
Day 28 : Barcelona
Day 29 : Barcelona
Day 30 : Barcelona
Day 31 : Barcelona, night flight to London, sleep in hotel near airport
Day 32 : 11:30am flight back home

Actually I have 1 extra day to slot in between, thinking of slotting it into either Brussels or Amsterdam.

I know Barcelona is wayyy out of the way but I will kill myself if I don't visit Spain in the course of my trip.

So please kindly let me know what you think about my plan... I really appreciate any suggestions, comments or criticisms.

Thanks!!

How many children do you have with you on the trip and what are their ages?

Bluemocha - I gather you like cities?

Seems like you have it all planned already. Personally I would skip Barcelona....it is too far. Allocate those days to Paris and Venice. It will be more relaxing than trying to complete your bucket list of places to see. Go back and do Spain on a different trip!. Congrats on your wedding, honeymoon!

are you flying between Rome and Barcelona as it seems you are but don't say? If so i would recommend a look at the France-Italy Eurailpass but if not it may not be the ticket for you.

But if you were going say Amsterdam to Bruges then Bruges to Paris and not doing Brussels (many consider Bruges far better for the average tourist than Brussels, a huge city that disappoints many) then i would again look a a 3-country Eurail Select Pass good in Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg as one country for this pass purposes) as it can be used to go from Amsterdam to Bruges and Bruges to Paris with everything 100% covered except a 3 euro mandatory seat reservation fee Bruges (via Lille) to Paris.

But if you go Brussels to Paris direct then to take the Thalys trains that only serve this route then even with a pass you'd have to pay $35 or so on top of using the pass. Ditto for Amsterdam to Brussels if you take the Thalys- though on that route you could hop regular IC trains that are a tad slower only with the pass.

But most folks would say go to Bruges rather than Brussels if you have to chose - and Bruges is a relatively small town -unlike all the other places you are visiting so a chance to savour a smaller, quieter place that IMO is the dreamiest town all in all in Europe north of the Alps.

But even if doing the Thalys Brussels to Paris then i would still strongly look at the Eurail 3-Country Select Saverpass (Saver pass means two or more names on one pass - about 20% cheaper p.p. than buying two solo passes) - note that the Eurail Select Pass, if over 25 years old, comes only in first class and IME of decades of European rail travel first class is infinitely more relaxes than 2nd class - so when deciding on a pass keep in mind it affords first class travel - say if you are comparing to 2nd class regular tickets. Apples and Oranges really.

Anyway for loads of great info on planning a European rail trip and learning about trains i always highlight these fab sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com - for schedules for all European trains i find the German Rail web site the easiest to use - www.bahn.de and it does have schedules for all of Europe.

Yes, why all big cities?

Bluemocha,

You won't kill yourself if you don't go to Spain ON THIS PARTICULAR trip. I assure you you will be hooked and will be mentally planning your next trip to Europe (may 2 weeks in Spain?) before your honeymoon is over.

I suggest you divide you Barcelona time between London, Paris (worthy of 10 days alone even without Disney), and Rome.

Also, do you already have plane tickets? There is no good reason to fly home from London. It makes much more sense to fly into London, tour Europe, and then fly home from Rome.

I love the major cities of Europe. I think it sounds like a fantastic trip. Personally I wouldn't change a thing! (and I rarely say that on this forum)

Unless you have children, I would skip Disneyland. Once you see Paris, you will want to spend more time there.

We just returned from Barcelona. Best to go there without your wife. There is a lot to look at.

Is this Sept 2010 or 2011? I'll take it is 2011....(better be!)?

You have 8 big cities in 32 days; doable, but maybe not enjoyable...specially if you are dragging children along :-O
So let's dissect this:

1. It is your first time in Europe and boy, you are going for Europe overload! I would pick max of 5 cities and day trip from there. Suggest London, Amsterdam, Paris, Rome, and Barcelona.

2. Fly into London/depart from Barcelona.

3. The flow ought to be more like London to Amsterdam to Paris to Rome to Barcelona.

4. Rent an apartment on each city.

5. Did I read this right?.....first time in Paris and all you plan to do is go to Euro Disney for 4 out of 5 days? I'll be blunt: this is borderline bizarre. Please get a guidebook of Paris pronto!

6. Make Day 20 Florence versus Venice.

7. On the extra day in Florence go by train to Pisa (RT).

8. Day trip to Brussels from Paris (if you must...).

9. Cut one day from Rome and one day from Barcelona if you MUST make it to Venice. If so, do it after Florence and before Rome.

10. Consider a MEDITERRANEAN CRUISE and this is why....too many cities and logistics. A cruise is a good way to get your feet wet in Europe but still not get overwhelmed by the choices and logistics. You unpack once. Is it the best way to see Europe? Not a chance. It is one of the best ways for a first timer dragging family in tow to be introduced to Europe? Absolutely.

I would also skip Barcelona on such a trip and maybe fit in some other cities in a logical geographic line along your route.

Wow, thanks everyone for your comments!

Paul1950: Sorry for not making things clear, we're both in our late 20's and have not had any kids yet :)

Coldupthere: Yes, you're absolutely right! The both of us love to just walk around cities, markets and just absorb the local culture & experience the local's way of life.

So we are the type of people who enjoy looking at buildings, going to the market, looking at street performers and just relaxing in cafes' more than visiting castles, mountains, windmills, etc...

Pauljagman: I know exactly what you mean :) and I've considered briefly to cancel our trip to Barcelona.

But we have many Spanish friends and every one of them are very warm & nice people! They've fed us with stories of beautiful Spain & their warm people many many times so we just have to see Spain for ourselves :)

PalenQ:

Thank you so much for your very detailed explanation!! Wow that is really very very good information, I've not considered Bruges before so I will definitely look into this :)

To save a bit of time, we may take a morning flight from Rome to Barcelona.

May I also ask if I have the Europass, will it be workable for overnight train from Paris to Venice? I tried to make dummy bookings through their website but it only says first or second class and didn't mention anything about sleepers. I'm worried I may end up having to sit for the whole night.

Once again, thanks everyone for your comments!!! :))

I am amazed that you are going to Paris for what seems to be just Disneyland. Supposedly THE city for romance. O_o

A flight form Rome to Barcelona makes MUCH more sense if you are determined to include it.

Also, check to see how much it would cost to fly back to the States from Barcelona. This could save an extra day.

BTW, we have spent considerable time in Spain and Barcelona and even though Barcelona is one of our favorite cities it is only partially refelcts Spain. They are Catalans first and speak a language that is based in Provencale even though everyone speaks Spanish and many speak English.

It is truly worth a detour, there is sense of style and joie de vivre that is uniquely Catalan.

Agree w/Sam. IMO, the Disneyland visit is the only thing I see wrong with this itinerary. Granted, you may be huge Disney fans, but you will get enough of that kind of thing after you have kids. It seems a most unromantic thing to do in Paris on your honeymoon.

Also, Paris-Venice overnight train is much better IMO than a flight. What site are you looking at?

"So we are the type of people who enjoy looking at buildings, going to the market, looking at street performers and just relaxing in cafes' more than visiting castles, mountains, windmills, etc... "

In that case you might want to do a day trip to Chartres from paris (rather than one of the Disneyland days) or to the countryside in Tuscany.

I like it. I would keep Barcelona. You may be Disney fans, but could you possibly skip it and spend more time in Paris? Or maybe spend a little time in the French countryside? Maybe a drive through Tuscany?

Sheez, a Disney visit is NOT "wrong", it's a matter of personal preference and taste. This person obviously has an interest or they would not have included 2-3 days there.

who are we to say a drive in the countryside or more time in Paris is a "better" thing to do? What's BEST is what YOU want to do no your vacation.

<i>"What's BEST is what YOU want to do on your vacation."</i>

Amen.

Hello again :)

Bobthenavigator & bardo1: I'm from Malaysia so it's a tad difficult & expensive for me to make frequent trips to Europe.. But I can see where you're going with your comments :)

But... like what I explained in my earlier post, I owe it to my Spanish friends to make a trip there :) I'm worried next time it may be more difficult for me to leave on long trips if I have kids soon :)

Unfortunately I've bought my tickets, I managed to get promo tickets so I've saved 50% on the air ticket prices by booking return instead of open jaw..

Suze : Thanks so much :) I'm glad to hear that at least I'm on the right track with my planning :)

Colduphere : Hahaha... damn, i should have posted this msg before I got married!!

Viajero2 : it's 2010 ! Yess.. i'm a last minute person, so hotels are expensive & i'm starting to regret a little...

I'm trying to hunt for B&B's and Apartments and hope to save a bit, but many are fully booked (my fault!)

Wow seems that many people are telling me that I don't have enough time for Paris... Maybe I can put the extra day I have in Paris (total 7 days in Paris with 2 or 3 days in Disneyland)..

Thanks for your suggestion for the cruise, I'll have a look @ the website :)

Oh wow...you mean this September! Start booking hotels. Mid-September is high season in Italy and busy in Paris and London too.

Thanks again for your input :) Hard to keep up with the replies hahahaha....

@Sam & Sap: Thanks again for your comments, my bad! we didn't have the privilege to enjoy places like this when we was young so the child in us just went crazy! haha.. But if everyone says so I you must be right, we'll just keep 2 days in Disney :)

I checked the train details on voyages-sncf.com, are all tickets on Artesia sleepers?

Aduchamp1 / travelgirl2: thanks :) I really look forward to meeting the Spanish people :)

Suze : Thanks for your comment & defence :)

Thanks again everyone, next time if any of you plan a visit to any Asian countries, please let me know & I'll try my best to help :)

bluemocha - this is what the overnight train will be like - http://www.seat61.com/sleepers.htm

Also, there is nothing wrong with Disney if you want to go. But, Paris is truly wonderful and you may regret not sending more time there. It is possible to go to Disney in the US as well, and other places - there's one in Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. But there is only one Paris.

That said, it is YOUR honeymoon! If you want to go to Disney three days, do so and have fun!

That was spending more time!

I think it sounds fine. You are giving yourselves enough time to see cities and allowing for travel time too.

If you want to spend time at Disney then do it! You are only young once and why not have some fun there.

Have a wonderful trip.

3 days might be a bit much for Disneyland but maybe you got a good deal on a hotel out there and want to commute into Paris.

How important is Brussels to you? You could well skip it altogether and be fine. It might be one of those places that you wouldn’t be one of those things you’d kick yourself later for not seeing, unless you are a huge fan of the architecture or Magritte.

Barcelona is a wonderful city and even though it’s a bit out of the way, you’ll be happy you went there. Plan a trip to Montserrat while you’re in Barcelona.

May I also ask if I have the Europass, will it be workable for overnight train from Paris to Venice? I tried to make dummy bookings through their website but it only says first or second class and didn't mention anything about sleepers. I'm worried I may end up having to sit for the whole night.>

No there are no regular seats on these Artesia Night trains - you must pay a supplement above the railpass, which pays for the train fare but not sleeping accommodation and this varies depending on what type of accommodations you desire- there are 6- and 4-person couchettes (4-person demands you have a first-class railpass) and there are also private doubles and singles - the couchettes run i believe about $35 p.p. above pass and T-2 or double probably $50-60 but not sure. If you have any such train/pass questions and wish to speak to an expert i suggest calling the helpful folks at Budget Europe Travel (one of the sites i recommended above) and aks for Byron - i have bought passes from him for years and he knows everything and will patiently answer any questions whether you are buying anything or not. Now the overnight train 7pm rule means that if the overnight train leaves after 7pm, as is the case here - your unlimited travel day is the next day - you travel gratis 7pm to midnight - your pass will be valid the whole next day in case you want to rail to someplace near Venice - unlikely but possible. A flexipass this is - you buy between 5 and 1- days to be used anytime within a 2-month period - you decide on the days as you go along.

And yes Bruges could be the most romantic city you would visit of them all IME!

I like Disneyland, too! It's just that between that & more time in Paris, Paris wins hands down. (I did say my comment was "IMO") I'm sure you'll have a great time no matter what you choose. Congrats on the upcoming nuptials. It looks like quite a nice plan for a memorable honeymoon.

I have not been to Eurodisney; if that appeals, by all means go, but I wouldn't do more than one day considering all Paris has to offer.

Other than that, I agree with other posters that the one thing I would probably skip out of your itinerary would be Brussels. I was there once and can't think of anything particularly compelling there (particularly compared to the other cities you're planning on. I did find Bruges charming and if I was going to one place in Belgium it would be Bruges.

If you want to see Barcelona and don't feel you're likely to get another chance, by all means go. I haven't been yet, but would very much like to go some day.

You could consider taking the Eurostar train from London to Brussels and on to Amsterdam. That might take about the same time as flying if you add time to get to and from the airports, and getting to the airport early. But Eurostar fares go up closer to the date.

I too think you're giving Paris too little time.

Call me Goofy but I prefer Barcelona over Paris. I would drop Paris. And Goofy.

hi bluemocha,

looks like a good plan but I tend to agree with viajero that it's a bit heavy on the cities. I do suggest that somehow you find yourselves some time to get our of town and into the countryside for some r & r, or you are going to find that these places all merge into one, and you won't care if you're in Florence or Madrid!

Personally I would keep Barcelona, as it is quite different from some of your other destinations, but lose Brussels, and cut down on amsterdam [or jetison it altogether] then spend the time on Lake Garda, say, between Venice and florence, just lazing and walking round - they have a brilliant system of boats which can get you all round the lake.

congrats and have a great trip,

regards, ann

same as the Disney choice argument, not everyone loves the "countryside". some people prefer to travel to the major cities, the cultural hubs of Europe. nothing wrong with that.

hahaha woww i'm getting so many flames on my Disney plan! Thanks a lot guys !! :)

And thanks a lot for your well wishes :)

I really didn't realise what Paris could offer until i get all your comments :) :)

THANKS !!!! :)

Sam & PalenQ : Thanks again for your endless supply of valuable information :)

Suze : Yeah, we kinda love cities a lot.. we were born in the 80's so we're a bit spoilt :P

Well, if any of you guys intend to make any trips to Asia, please be sure to drop me a message :) I'll return the favour as best as I can :) :)

@bluemocha
As soon as the word 'Disneyland Paris' appears on this board, almost everybody will tell you not to go.... It presses some sort of button i gueass :-)

But I am a huge Disney-fan myself and would not skip a trip to a Disney-park anywhere in the wordl, if there was a park in the countr I am visiting.

So please not let the more negative comments here stop you from visiting Disneyland Paris!

Esepcially the Disneyland-style-park is beautiful. Walt Disney Studios is sort of the 'DCA' of Paris. A less beautiful park (but still enjoyable) next to one of the most beautiful them parks in the world.

My guess is that a solid 2 days (with hopper passes) might be enough for a first visit. You could choose a hotel on-site to save time. I personally like the New York hotel the best.

One last tip: since last week the Toy Story Playland opened at WDS. Mixed reviews regarding the actual attractions in this (mini)land, but still bringing some atmosphere to WDS.

Enjoy!

I don't know if "flamed" is the right word. Since you asked for opinions people love to express theirs. It's why we post on this board, it's why people love the internet.

If you want to go to Disneyland, go and enjoy. Disneylands make money because people love them.

"I really didn't realise what Paris could offer until i get all your comments"

This is exactly why you got the opinions, so you do realise = )

Happy to help!

Having been to EuroDisney twice and loving it and its European aspects I say ignore the nay-sayers and go for it - i love theme parks as much as famous art museums - to each his/her own for what they want.

suze - the OP asked us to let them know what we thought of their plan. Your post regarding my suggestions was unnecessarily harsh, in my opinion. I never said they were 'wrong'. Only gave my opinion, as asked. As did the other posters to this thread.