First time to Europe (Italy) and want to do it on our own
 

This is my favorite forum to research and plan for our annual trips. I've spent hours and hours reading the trip reports, comments, bought Rick Steves' 2010 guidebook and have decided that we want to visit Italy for about two weeks in May independently rather than with a group tour! I'm always the one doing all the planning, from big to small, in our family so at first planning a trip to Europe seemed very daunting. Originally, for simplicity sake and since May is only 4 months away, we were going to use Gate1 Travel (have never used them before but have heard lots of good things), but we prefer doing things on our own time/schedule so we'll be doing Italy mostly on our own with possibly a private guide here and there.

I have a big picture of what cities we want to visit, what we'd like to see, etc. But I would love to get your help on what is the best airline to use from L.A. We'll start in Venice and will go home from Rome (Is this a good choice?).

I'm sure as our plan/itinerary takes shape, I will ask more questions of the Italy experts. Thank you so much in advance!

First, good for you for doing the work and getting the vacation you want. In two weeks you can see the big 3 in Italy plus spend some time n the countryside - you need to figure out what you want to see where to decide how to distribute your days.

Into Venice and out of rome is good - since the flights from Venice to the US are at the crack of dawn.

Don;t know which airlines fly out of LA but I would be more concerned with cost and timing as long as you are going with a major carrier. If you go to kayak.com it will give you a host of options.

The trains in Italy are great, so don't hesitate to use them. And there is no need to book in advance from the US, you can just book what you need at the train stations.

Venice - Florence (with Tuscany day trips) - Rome would be a great two week trip.

Good for you!
You have a good start---I suggest a max of 4 destinations in your time. Use kayak.com to search your airline--use the multi-city option.

Bravo for you! There is a world of good information on this forum and you are very wise to read it.

Good advice from nytraveler (as usual), unless you plan on flying business or first class then just get the cheapest airfare with the best layovers, especially coming home.

If you can't find a non stop then look for a flight that will have a stop over in Europe, like Amsterdam or London etc then go directly to LAX. This way you'll only have to clear customs in LAX which (your probably know) can be long but at least you'll not be worried about making your flight. If this isn't possible and you need to take a flight with a stop over in a US city, make sure you have plenty of times to clear customs.

I just booked a R/T from SFO to Paris with http://airfare.com/. It was considerably cheaper than what kayak.com offered. Check all the sites, including Expedia, Orbitz, etc. to find the better price. Be aware that what is posted in large type usually does not include taxes and fees. Often you need to act as if you want to purchase the ticket to get the actual price.

You're all are so fast at responding! Thank you. This trip will be to celebrate our 10-year anniversary and since it will be our first time to Europe, we're pretty psyched.

nytraveler and bobthenavigator, I will use Kayak to find airfare. LSky I love to fly business class but unfortunately that will be too expensive for us. May be for our 20th anniversary :). How much layover time do I allow, would London be the best choice? I've read that Paris is pretty chaotic. What's considered a good fare during the first two weeks of May? Will I need flights within Italy or just use the train? Do we need to fly to NY then Europe?

cathies, yes I was thinking Venice, Florence and Rome too. I would love to stay in the Tuscany area for a few days and even stay at a agriturismo(?). Or I guess we can just use Florence as a base than do day trips since we don't plan to drive in Italy.

Another option I've been looking at is to use Gate1 air/land package, let's say 2 days Venice/3 Florence or something like that just to get us there. The only thing is I've been doing so much research on quaint boutique-type hotels that I hesitate to use a tour company's typical tourist hotels. Would appreciate your advice on this. In addition, I don't really know how much of a savings to use Gate1's land/air package vs booking air/hotel on our own, besides the "quaint" factor that is.

Thank you so much! You guys are the best!

If you have a layover in London, Paris wherever, just make sure it's not in the States. You'll be checked through. Well, unless they change things between now and May. Happy 20th Anniversary!

I like to have at least 1 1/2 hours for a layover, longer doesn't bother me at all.

LSky, it will be our 10th :). If I get to plan all our trips, I'm sure we'll make it to our 20th.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...italy-trip.cfm

This is a posting I made last summer after a few days in Venice and so. Tuscany. I drool at the idea of two weeks in No. Italy! If you are intending on driving around Tuscany, be sure to search for postings on the Val d'Orcia, which has the absolute prototypically gorgeous countryside that is fun to drive through. Also, to get the best deal on airfare, be sure to try different city pairs (milan, rome, bologne, venice) Sometimes, for no good reason, a particular city pair comes up with a good deal. First get the best deal on your airfare, then plan your itinerary; Don't set an itinerary and then try to find airfares to match that, you may be limiting your options and paying for it. Bon Voyage!

How exciting, we celebrated our 10th anniversary in Europe too(with the kids along too) and loved it.

Now I live in LA but then was in SFO and it always seemed cheaper to fly into London and then take a local flight from there. Kayak worked pretty well for me too.

I'm a big proponent of the 'do it yourself' travel and with the help from all the incredible people out here I'm sure you can do it yourself.

We stayed in an agriturisimo in Tuscany(Montepulciano) for a week and did day trips to all the nearby hill towns and would really reccommend that. In Florence we stayed at a lovely uaint boutique hotel called David and it was fantastic!!

Good luck with the planning!!!

Thanks docdan for the tips on fare search! Rick Steves tours stay at Pensione Guerrato, pretty cool.

anitavuyyuu, I hadn't heard of hotel David! I checked it out on TripAdvisor, very pretty. I''m adding that to my list of preferred hotels for Florence. I've narrowed tons of hotels down to a few in each city and am having a hard time choosing.

I also use these forums as an integral part of our independent travel planning. Very succussfully planned trips in past to Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark & Sweden with the advice from these boards. Now we're planning an Italy vacation for our 20th anniversary. My first time there. We have great ideas, but now we don't know if we're going in September, as we originally thought, or perhaps mid-June. Our other option, which we Dismissed, is Holy Week. I don't want to go when it's that busy and crazy. Good luck to you. I also cross check hotels on TripAdvisor. I get such great advice here.

On your question about Gate1, I can't speak for that company or the prices compared to doing it yourself, but if it were me, I would choose purchasing my own flights and hotels over tourist-type places, even if the prices were a little bit higher. The hotels that Gate1 uses may be less centrally located, as well, than those you choose. And I think it's important to stay at a place where it's easy to walk to most of the sites you want to see, plus be in a good location for scenic walking around in the evenings.

I wouldn't bother with Gate1 for anything. You can almost certainly find a better deal on your own (check out Michael's suggestion as well as Kayak, Mobissimo, etc.). I wouldn't trust any tour company's choice of hotels, as I know they negotiate deals with big places usually out of the main circuit. I probably wouldn't be too thrilled with Rick Steve's choice of hotels (or restaurants), either, from what I've seen on his videos. You can do better by yourself, and you seem to have the incentive to do it, so keep reading here and I'm sure you'll do better than any tour operator can.

Hi Paige,

this may be a bit out of your comfort zone, but in May, a couple would have no problem finding accommodation in Italy, apart from in big cities.

so my suggestion would be to fly into Venice and stay 3-4 nights, then to pick up a car, and take a routr that took you towards either florence or Rome [wherever you want to end up] arriving there 4 days before you are flying home.

you would need to book ahead for Venice and Florence/Rome, but the rest would be up to you as you travelled.

just a thought!

"A little less centrally located" is a euphemism for way the f--- out of town. Tour companies get discounts on hotels that are in remote locations compared to the center of Rome, Florence or Venice. Oftentimes, you might as well be in an undisclosed location.

Don't stick too close to Rick Steves because (1) his choices are occasionally a bit downscale and you want nice hotels and restaurants on your trip and (2) what's the fun in doing it yourself if it's all done by Rick Steves?

Personally, we like the DK books and (of course) the FODORs books -- especially the pictorial ones that help us get a notion of what we want to see.

With two weeks, you can easily do 4 nights Venice, 4-5 Florence and 5-6 Rome. You should visit Siena -- its Duomo is excellent. I'd like to re-visit Verona, which is probably day-trippable from Venice on a fast train.

As for connections in Europe -- the London airports are more expensive to depart from to the US (for your return) because they tax the heck out of you. Paris is a mess and connections there are a crapshoot -- we had no problem connecting in '06 but when we went to Paris in '07 others on our plane got completely jammed as we had a delay getting out of the deplaning area immediately after the jetway. Good rule of thumb is to avoid Paris. Supposedly Amsterdam is far better and KLM flies from LAX.

I just ran your scenario for departure 13 May into VCE and return from FCO on 28 May.
You best deal/flights are AF over---with a stop in Paris-- and Delta on return from Rome nonstop. The price is $1252
Could be worse. Have fun !

On your question about getting around within Italy, if you plan to only visit the big cities, then train is your best bet. If you'd like to spend time in more rural areas, in the countryside, then consider renting a car for that portion of the trip.

On which city to connect through in Europe (or the US), the connection time will be predetermined; the booking engines won't give you connections that are too close. We don't live in LA, but have found that connecting through Frankfurt works best for us, based on the airlines that fly to Europe from our home city. We flew through London once, because the flights were $200/pp cheaper; it was more of a hassle, but worth if for the money we saved. I would connect through pretty much any city if it made sense money-wise and time-wise for your planned itinerary.

I like Rick Steves for his honest appraisals of what's worth seeing and what's not (I may not always agree, but at least he doesn't make everything sound perfect). But I rarely use his hotel suggestions, for the reasons others have noted. Same for restaurants. What do I use for hotels and restaurants? Hmmm. Some Fodor's, some tripadvisor, rarely any actual guidebooks. Mostly, I think, I determine where in a city I want to stay, and work backwards from there, doing various research to find good-looking, centrally-located, family-owned small hotels or inns. Restaurants, mostly the Chowhound website and a bunch of actual printed books (depending on the destination).

Enjoy your planning!

For an agriturismo, may I recommend Agriturismo Marciano in Siena. Very pretty!

Thank you everyone for your input!

I agree with the comments re:Rick Steves guidebook. I do respect his opinions on the tourist attractions, but some of the recommended hotels provide very minimal comfort in my humble opinion. Though we don't prefer lux hotels when going to Europe, realizing that it's so much more expensive than traveling to Asia, we do try to look for something that's stylish but simple and not too ornate or gaudy, reasonably priced, has good breakfast and friendly service, near all the places we want to see. I'm probably asking for too much here.:] I've been spending so much time reading hotel reviews on TripAdvisor, SlowTrav, Fodors, Frommers and such that I should start looking for airfare soon, like this weekend!

annhig, we love the convenience of having our own car but may be we'll do that on our next trip since I can already tell from all my readings that I'm going to love Europe and will return to it again and again. I read docdan's trip report and would like to spare my poor husband the stress, on his vacation no less, of driving on the Italian Autostrada.

Re:going in May, does it really matter if we leave at the beginning (I know to avoid May 1), middle or the end of the month? I've read about possible rain during this month but waiting until June will increase our trip costs even more.

Can't wait to find out this weekend how much airfare will cost us. BigRuss, I was thinking of KLM too! Thanks for the tips.

See above---$1252

Thanks bobthenavigator, I will check it out!

You may also want to consider renting apartments in the cities, even for 3-5 nights. You have considerable more room than in a hotel, plus you usually have a kitchen/washing machine/living room, giving you more room to spread out in and cooking options. Even if you just want to make a cup of coffee in the morning, the kitchen helps!

I am just finalizing our 16-day trip in Italy for May and have booked nice 2-bedroom, 2-bathroom apartments in Rome, Tuscany, Venice, and on Lake Maggiore for an average of a little less than 200 Euros per night. This is for 2 couples, so you probably would not need that much space. I used www.homelidays.com and homeaway.com to book most of the apartments. I used www.italyrents.com for the Rome apartment.

I found this fare on Kayak, please let me know what you think!
Leaving Sunday 5/15, on Air New Zealand, get in to Venice at 10:10 am. Return on British Airways 2 weeks later, getting into L.A. at 7:25 pm, very good time I would think. Fare $1168.09/pp. Aren't these airlines reputable? We've never flown them before. Your comments please! Thank you!

There's Alitali/AF for $1091/pp but I'm trying to avoid Paris airport.

I also checked www.airfare.com per Michael's advice. $1020.50 on Lufthansa, connect in Germany, to Venice at 1:25 pm.

I haven't checked KLM/Delta, but we flew through Amsterdam last September and liked the connections a lot. We were coming from SFO, so it is a similar trip. I like leaving home in the afternoon, being able to sleep (?) on the plane at a fairly normal hour without interruption for transfers. so much better than connection in the US!

charnees, I also read that it's better not to connect in the states. I wonder how true this is...? I do know that we'd like to get into Venice earlier during the day rather than late afternoon or evening since this would mean one day less on our vacation already.

We live in L.A. and over many years have flown on several airlines using different routings. By far, my favorite for final destinations in Italy is the daily non-stop Swiss Air (code-share United) to Zurich and onward to wherever. It's an evening departure, mid-afternoon arrival.

There are non-stop flights between LAX and FCO on Alitalia, but Alitalia would probably be my last choice for long-haul flights. I'd rather fly Swiss Air back to Zurich to catch Swiss' daily early afternoon non-stop to LAX, at least until I hear some really glowing first-hand reports on Alitalia's LAX service. Using Zurich means you could easily put Venice at the start or end of a Venice-Florence-Rome itinerary.

I wouldn't get hung up on the time of day of your final arrival anywhere. You'll likely be fairly wiped out and only able to utilize a few hours to do any sightseeing. I'm able to get going right away, but my husband often doesn't remember everything we've seen on arrival day.

I wouldn't bother with Gate1. Once you nail down what you'll be spending on air fare, tell us what your hotel/apartment budget is. There are good options in every budget range.

Avoid 2 connections, but you knew that.

If you have never been to Europe before I would be connecting in the states AND I would not be driving in Italy if you have never driven overseas before. The train system is so easy there along with the rest of the public transportation-that way you can sit back and enjoy the scenery/views.

Haven't checked the fares but why not fly to Atlanta,New York,Philly from LA and go nonstop to Venice and then nonstop back to those cities or Chicago from Rome to LA? London's departure tax is the highest along with Paris so when you start adding that onto a ticket it kills you.

I think that if you have been to Europe before it is nice to rent an apartment but quite frankly I cannot begin to tell you how many passengers I have had on my flights home to the states that booked apartments as first timers and it proved to be too much. Sometimes you just want to have someone at the front desk helping you with directions,questions and thoughts.

I know that I am going to be flamed for the above but I don't think that you all remember the first time that you went overseas and all that it involved.I think that most of us on Fodors are seasoned travelers and as such go in a different direction but sometimes you have to remember how overwhelming it is to arrive jet lagged in a foreign country without knowing the language on our own and start sightseeing.

I would take the Alitalia non-stop from LAX to FCO. I know a couple of people who took the flight last year and had no problems and they said the plane was actually in good shape. I am planning on taking that flight for our trip next year (coming down from PDX). It is worth it not to have to worry about connections in a foreign country (for my trip I will be traveling with a bunch of "newbies")the first time traveling in Europe.

We've connected in Chicago and had problems/delays almost every time. Maybe we're just the unlucky ones.

Likewise, I no longer book connections through Heathrow or deGaulle unless we're planning to spend some time in either country. We've just encountered too many problems and spent too much unplanned time in both airports.

"Alitalia... they said the plane was actually in good shape." I'd have to hear more about service, food, and baggage claim. We had the (round-trip) flights from hell a few years ago that still give me nightmares.

dutyfree - I think you make a good point.

for people who have never been to Europe before, being able to turn to your hotel reception or concierge can be very reassuring.

Thank you for everyone's input. I will try to look for a non-stop flight from LA to Venice, good point on not having to connect in a foreign country. We won't be driving in Italy on this first trip but will hope to do so after a couple more trips. Re:apartment rental, I think that's a great idea especially after seeing some rentals on this board and TripAdvisor. I would definitely rent an apartmenet if we have more people but since it will just be the two of us, we'll stay at a hotel, that way we won't feel so isolated. We're very sociable people but there were a few times during our previous vacations that we felt a little lonely, can you believe that? Staying at a hotel will provide us with opportunities to meet and chat with other travelers. My husband got really sick in VN one time, throwing up non-stop (he later needed an IV drip). It was comforting to know the hotel staff was there to help call a local doctor and to help him get back to our room away from the cold sea wind.

You can definately go on your own. Last year we flew Air France from LAX to Venice via Paris deGualle, spent 5 days, then took the fast train to Rome, spent 5 days, then back to LAX via Paris again. If you can do LAX than you can do deGualle. It's a huge airport, but well-signed and easy to navigate. Also it has very pretty architecture. The first leg of our trip was on Air France - very uncomfortable planes, but good service. The second was with Alitalia - older, much more comfortable planes, friendly service.

From the Venice airport, we caught the bus to the island which was cheap, fast, and easy. We took the fast train from Venice to Rome which was also very easy. Our flight out of Rome was at 9:00AM in the morning, so we got a taxi from our hotel to the airport.

I researched the hotels on TripAdvisor and sent e-mails and had no problem. I also asked lots of questions and received wonderful answers on this forum. Good luck and have a great trip!

Suru11, thanks for the positive comment on Paris deGualle. Is Alitalia a good airline to fly on if you have your choice?

The reason I'm asking is there's a deal right now that I can get on Alitalia mid-May, non-stop to Rome then to Venice. Hotels all all 4 stars, A La Comedia/Venice, Hotel Pierre/Florence, Hotel Kolbe/Rome. I checked Hotel Pierre's website and it's E795 for just a standard room! Our budget was going to be $150-250/night. All these hotels are central, great breakfasts, central location, get great reviews on TripAdvisor. Air, 9 nights for $6269 for 2. What do you think? Thank you for your help!

Alitalia had many complaints against it in the past, but it is "under new management" so to speak. I flew it in the past and never had any more to complain of than any other airline I have used to fly to Italy. If you like the price and schedule, then I say book it. Alitalia, Air France , and Delta are airline partners, so in some cases you may actually flying an Alitalia codeshare with one of these others.

It all depends on what you want. If one assumes a $1200 RT per person, it leaves $3869 for hotels, which would come out to $425 per night for the hotel rooms, quite a bit higher than what you budget was going to be. Is the packaging worth the extra cost?