Finessing 5 days in London
 

We -- DH, two teenage boys and I -- are going to London for a week in late March, and staying in an apartment in Westminster. Before arriving in London we will be Edinburgh for 2 days. The week in London includes 2 day trips -- Bath (a must-see according to many on this board, and Paris -- for a lark). The tickets for the day trips are bought already and now I am panicking at all there is to see in London in the short time we have there. We will be getting the one-week Travel cards so that should help.

So here is what I was thinking -- much based on recommendations by many on this board and things we think would be fun. Is it too much?

Sunday noon: Arrive at hotel; afternoon: tube from Victoria to V and A, with a wander around Imperial College (my late father was a student there in the lats 50s) Dinner in South Ken.

Monday -- Buckingham Palace (outside only); Westminster Abbey (London walk tour?)/Big Ben/Houses of Parliament views. Pub lunch. Churchill Imperial War Museum. Wander about Trafalgar Square with a quick peek at the National Gallery and St Martin in the Fields. Dinner at Covent Garden/Soho. Maybe a play?

Tuesday: Bath (early morning train; return late evening)

Wednesday: Hampton Court (half day) or Windsor Castle. Afternoon tea at Fortnum and Mason. See the Parliament at work. or visit Brirish Library. Pub dinner

Thursday: Paris (VERY early train :)

Friday: Tower of London, Borough Market for lunch and a wander, Globe Theater tour. Tube it to British Museum (open until 8 pm). Dinner with friends in Bloomsbury

Saturday: Portobello Market, A wander in the City and St Paul's. Harrods and Knightsbridge shopping. Dinner at Scott's or J. Sheekey

Sunday morning: Return to Chicago :(

Of course with two DS, plans can go awry and there is so much to see in London! Want to make sure we see enough without running ourselves ragged, which I think we will. Any advice on having a well-paced trip welcome :) Thanks

"<i>I am panicking at all there is to see in London in the short time we have there.</i>"

Don't panic -you can't see everything so just go w/ what you can manage.

I might re-think your Saturday a bit though. You are quite literally crossing London 3+ times.

Are the boys interested in Portobello Rd? It would be a very early AM jaunt, and maybe a relaxing morning might be better after all the dashing about for the previous week.

And on a Saturday Harrods will likely be very crowded. St Pauls, The National Gallery/National Portrait Gallery, St Martin in the Fields, Covent Garden and J Sheekey would be a good grouping of sites w/ only St Pauls at some distance. All the others are walking distance from each other.

"<i>Churchill Imperial War Museum.</i>"

Note -- the Churchill Museum/Cabinet War rooms and the Imperial War Museum are different things. I assume you meant the Churchill one since it is near the Abbey - and is great. But so is the Imperial War Museum

Thanks Janis -- you are right, one has to go to London several times to experience everything. Re. Portobello -- I may go there by myself and let the boys sleep in. And yes, I did mean the Churchill War Museum. Think the boys would love it.

What would you recommend -- Windsor vs Hampton Court?

I agree that on Saturday we are criss-crossing London (one way to extract full value from the Travelcard!)but I would rather see my "must sees" first and then do Harrods if there is time on Saturday. DH and I have been to the store before and not sure the boys care.

Windsor is more a fortress-castle - which your sons may enjoy more. Hampton court was a pleasure Palace - built much later - but has much more to see/do., Don;t think you can cover Hampton Court in half a day.

As for Harrod's- a big department store - and unless you are planning on specific shopping I wouldn;t bother.

I'd look at a map to determine the logistics of a lot of this. If you do decide to keep Harrod's in the itinerary (the food market is really cool) then do it on the day you go to the V&A as it is right nearby.

If this is your first time in London, I'd swap some of Monday for Sunday. I would think first-timers would want to see Big Ben, Parliament, Westminster Abbey, Trafalgar Square and Buckingham Palace...all of which you could walk to/through on your first afternoon. Maybe book ahed tickets on the London Eye? That itinerary right there is the big bang of London right off the bat. I wouldn't want day one to be a hop on the tube and then inside a museum, no matter how good the V&A is (and it IS fantastic!)

"See the Parliament at work. "

http://www.parliament.uk/visiting/attend/debates/

"A wait of one or two hours is common"

You won't be able to see PMQs nor will you be able to do a tour therefore the only option open to you is to watch a debate

Did you know that you can go to a play at the Globe Theatre? That might be a better option than the tour, but it depends on whether you are interested in Shakespeare enough.

Thanks all...we arrive Sunday afternoon and the Abbey is closed. Also, there are no plays at the Globe the week we are there :( so that option is out as well.

Agree about buying tickets for the Eye in advance. Can you do that if you are planning to get 2:1 tix? Thanks again.

Don't buy the Eye Tickets in advance as you really don't want to ride in the rain.

reddy that's a shame about no plays at the Globe.

Cathie: I agree. On the bright side it means I have to visit London again. We are missing out on the Cotswolds too so two good reasons!

"<i>here are no plays at the Globe the week we are there</i>"

The Globe is open air -- Even if there were shows, you wouldn't want to attend a play in March.

Also, definitely don't pre-book the Eye. You can phone, book on line, or stop by the ticket office in the morning once you know what the weather is. Late afternoon/dusk is a great time to ride the Eye --IF the weather cooperates.

Fair point, we were there in June when we saw the play and it was quite warm.

You may want to rethink visiting The City on a Sat - everything will be closed up tight with the exception of the area right by St Pauls. One Exchnage is a new shopping complex on Cheapside and that is open but nearly everything around Bank etc is closed as they cater to the city workers. So no pubs, no stores, few restaurants will be open and it is a bit dead.

Hi

I always, always find my trip plans are "biting off more than I can chew" - despite 30++ trips to Europe. But I continue to plan that way anyway because I like having lots of options. Once I am on the ground things change, sometimes drastically. Right now in reading this I think you took something right out of my playbook. It's not a bad thing - I do it all the time. Just be prepared to winnow things out because moving from one place to another will take time.

It's too bad you already bought the Paris day trip tickets b/c I would have urged you to reconsider. That's a long day and if you've never been there before you will wish you had waited for a longer trip. I would consider using that day to merely wander. Don't waste time on waiting in line for the Louvre/Orsay, for instance - one stint of that could mean that museum will eat up your morning because once inside you will spend a few hours. I say this as someone who just made a blitz through several museums on a long wkd there, so I'm not discouraging museums, I'm merely saying be efficient with your limited time. Or, do some research on exhibits in March and choose one SMALL museum such as, for example, the Musee Maillol. For that matter, if you just selected Musee Rodin that would be a good choice. There are plenty of small museums that won't have epic lines. The Museums and Monuments pass wouldn't be a good value b/c you are only there one day, unfortunately.

In reading your days, you really only have Monday planned for London, then you are taking off for three days in a row. Are you sure you want to do this? There is SO MUCH in London, Windsor/Hampton Court can wait. Sunday is only a half day, so I understand not wanting to fill it - ease into the week. Would you consider the Hop On Hop Off bus? You'll get a quick overview of the city and can either stay on the entire trip or do what you like. If it's the first time I'd probably consider doing one full loop and then on the second go to disembark at the place that interests you. Just a thought.

Wednesday is too full if you do plan to do a day trip as well. That might be a good time to consider dropping the day trip you planned, and take a few things you have sprinkled in the other days to Wednesday. Plan to keep them geographically logical.

I'd move your City/St Paul's to Friday. It would be in line with your South Bank plans.

Keep in mind the weather might change your plans somewhat. If it's cold and rainy you might wish to spend more time inside museums. Put another way - when it IS fine, use that time to be outside as much as you can. If I were going in March, with limited time, I'd use the not-rainy days to be outside - as much as I could, and save the museums for the possibly rainy days even if it means moving them to later in the week. I realize with day trips planned that compresses your time somewhat. Make hay while the sun shines! Here's hoping for good weather for you.

Thanks flygirl. I agree about moving the City visit to Friday and taking it slow. We can do Hampton Court Saturday if we feel we have covered major sights by then.

The Paris trip is cramming things in but the kids wanted to go to experience the Chunnel and I found great Eurostar tickets so hard to pass up. We will just see how things go and not fret too much I guess if we cannot get to everything. The must dos for the boys are W abbey, the Tower and the British and Churchill War Museums. I think we can do that in the time we have and still wander. I have been to London several times and the boys and I to Paris many years ago. And we plan to return again some day! Thanks for your input on the hop on and off bus. Is that included in the Travelcard?

"<i>hanks for your input on the hop on and off bus. Is that included in the Travelcard?</i>"

No, the H-o-H-o buses are commercial tours and relatively quite expensive. I often recommend them for folks w/ longer in London. But you really are too rushed IMO to squeeze in a H-o-H-o tour. Just to do one full loop w/o getting off to go inside any of the sites would basically eat up 1/2 a day.

They are something to consider for a first/jet lagged day. You can be in the open air and see things w/o having to walk for miles. But w/ so little free time in London, I don't think I'd take one.

Have you already bought a "Travelcard"? I think a 7-day-card is less.

<"no plays at the Globe the week we are there">

But these 'public education performances' in March should be enlightening and fun - and there are free tickets available -

http://www.shakespeares-globe.org/gl...ngshakespeare/

http://www.shakespeares-globe.org/gl...es/ourtheatre/

http://www.shakespeares-globe.org/gl...sconservatory/

And there's this concert at St Clement Danes on 22 March, for all of five quid -

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/publicEvents/e...t1930vSCD.aspx

(IMO there's a lot to be said for forgetting big name international acts and even exhibitions which you can catch when they rock up to your part of the world anyway and considering instead 'unique' local events - lectures, concerts, workshops - sponsored by the great public institutions, invariably at interesting venues and often for free or a token charge.)

http://www.theoriginaltour.com/tour_.../page_109.html

Regular price
Adult (16+ years): £25.00 Child (5-15 years): £12.00

Winter Price
Adult (16+ yrs): £22.50 Child (5-15 yrs): £10.00

Sounds like it would be around 100 bucks for your family to have a 24 hour HOHO pass.

I would discourage the HOHO buses. The best seats on the top are difficult to get, especially a family together. Its difficult to hear the commentary and they get stuck up in traffic. There are much better ways to use your time and money.

If you want to take the bus they are easy to figure out. Each route is posted at each stop and you can search for routes online at www.tfl.gov.uk if you want to take a bus one morning to a particular site. Plus they are included in your transit pass if you have one.

Regular buses in relation to main attractions:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...-route-map.pdf

Thanks Patrick - my 2nd paragraph above I am referring to the regular double decker buses, not the HOHO!

The single day in Paris is a tough one. There will be some time wasted getting from Gare du Nord to the center and back. We've done it, but we had been to Paris twice before for a total of 12 days, so we only wanted to walk around and see a couple of things (and enjoy the French countryside on the trip).

Here's what I suggest (not necessarily in that order):

(a) Notre Dame

(b) River Cruise

(c) A self-guided walk in the center around Ile de la Cite and either bank nearby. There are many in print - Frommer's Fodors, Steves, et. al. Check out the books at the library and pick the one you think will be the most fun.

(d) The Louvre may actually be possible in March, since crowds will be much smaller -- but only if you enter via the Metro station entrance (Palais Royal-Musee du Louvre on Lines 1 & 7) - much, much shorter lines there -- rather than at the Pyramid. (I can't say the same for sure about d'Orsay that time of year)

I THINK that is do-able.

Remember, there is a 1-hour time difference between London and Paris, so chunnel trip is actually takes 3h20m or so off the clock - plus you will need extra time to get to Gare du Nord 45 min in advance for your return.

SS

With regard to Parliament, find out if there will be an evening session and go then, rather than during the daytime. Line will be shorter, and you won't waste time when other attractions are open that way. With limited time, you want to look as see when certain attractions are open in the evening on which nights and keep those in mind as it will allow you to get the most sight seeing in the minimum of time.

Flygirl makes a good point about seeing a small museum, if the Louvre is crowded.

Two that we like are:

(1) Carnavalet Museum - a lot of history of Paris

(2) Museum Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris - 2th c. art.

The two major art museums (Louvre/Orsay) are actually not so "Parisian" - i.e., they are pretty much the same as any of the world's major museums (though they obviously have absolutely amazing collections). You can limit yourself to the Louvre's highlights - Mona Lisa, Winged Victory, Venus de Milo, etc., and one or two rooms of your favorite genre -- in an hour or so.

My wife reminded me that walking around Paris is the most "Parisian" thing you can do in one day-- after Notre Dame and the cruise (which will give a good view of the Eiffel Tower and several other major sights).

The cruise we like is Vedettes de Pont Neuf (http://www.vedettesdupontneuf.com) which departs from the west tip of Ile de la Cite (below the Pont Neuf) and (as far as I know) is the only one that allows online advanced discount reservations that do not commit you to a specific day and time.

SS

Thanks all for you feedback. Lots of fodder to think about. As result I have altered some plans. We will spend 4.5 days in London proper without the distractions of Windsor or Hampton palace. We will visit Parliament late in the evening once other sights close. I think that should give us time to sightsee and wander.

Decided to give the HOHO a miss. We will walk and tube/bus using the travel card. We love to walk and London is the place for it!

Farrermog - thanks for the Bard info but unfortunately none of the dates match our visit. I am beginning to feel like a star crossed playgoer! also agree about not seeing a big production. We are going to see either War Horse or 39 Steps Monday night.

Ssander - thanks for the tips on Paris. Like you we have been there before but the kids wanted to experience the Chunnel hence the adventure. Frommers has a one-day Paris itinerary

http://www.frommers.com/destinations...062020766.html

It mainly a wander by the Seine with an early visit to the Louvre for an hour or two. I think we will do the Mona Lisa and Venus di Milo look up, the walk and end the day with a ride up the Eiffel Tower. Should be fun...how often can you say you went to Paris for a quick lunch :)

Also in London we will see the City on Wednesday, letting go of Windsor. Thanks for that tip jamikins.


Thanks again. I love to plan it with a nice long wish list and shed as needed. I am sure I will need your advice again before we depart in March.

reddy2go2...

Wow - We saw The 39 Steps on our last trip to London (2008) and it was fabulous. It was October, crowds were small, and we just walked up to the box office half-hour before curtain and got 1st row upper deck great seats - it's a very small theater. (...and since we were over 60, we got the tickets for a little more than half-price.)

We always do a play while in London. Generally we avoid the American-style musicals in large theaters and opt for the more British plays in smaller venues.

The 39 Steps is a classic in that regard - great British humor. I recommend you see the original film (Netflix has it and possibly your local library) before you go. Some knowledge of Hitchcock's other well-known films will add to the enjoyment of the parody material, as well.

At the Louvre, don't miss the great Vermeers (and Steens and de Hoch's) in the 17th C. Dutch rooms.

FYI: We're doing a London (5 days)-Paris (5 days) trip in May. Got our air and chunnel tix already.

I highly recommend using buses (as well as the tube) in London.

Consider a 7-day zone 1-2 off-peak TravelCard, which costs £27.60 (~$45). If you plan on using public transport a lot, it's a good deal - get an Oyster Card and load the 7-day pass onto it. Individual off-peak (after 9:30 am) rides are £1.90 with the Oyster card - so there's a 14/15-ride break-even point (less than 3 rides per day), not to mention the convenience of not having to think about whether you have enough "money" on your Oyster card. Just touch the card to the sensor as you enter the tube or get on a bus. You don't even have to remove it from your wallet.

SS

Personally I think the boys would appreciate the Imperial War Museum more than the Churchill WarRooms. We go there on every trip to Londn and my "boy" is 73! They also do a nice lunch in the cafe and reasonably priced

You may want to book war horse tickets fairly far in advance if you have a large party. I tried booking for 5 the week of Mar 7 last night and they only had the priciest tickets left in a group of 3 or 5!

Sorry, meant to add that was for the whole week too!

Sorry, meant to add that was for the whole week too!

I've done the daytrip from London. It wasn't as horrible as some might think. Essentially we followed this route:

Arrive Gare du Nord
-- Taxi to Louvre, saw highlights (Literally: Venus de Milo, Winged Victory, Mona Lisa, Dying Slaves, realizing that the hallway Mona Lisa is off of is a stellar collection and the rooms behind it are the French collection so you can dabble there)
-- Walked along the Seine, grabbed lunch at a sidewalk cafe
-- Walked to St. Chapelle and Notre Dame, visited both
-- Took taxi halfway up Champs Elysees and walked to Arc de Triomphe
-- Taxi back to Gare du Nord, dinner on the train back

This was in March, so the crowds were much lighter than in-season. It didn't feel terribly rushed but it was a very full day and we were busted at the end of it. We opted for the taxi rather than try to figure out the Metro (which is sort of silly now that we know what we know!) Essentially all this day trip did was fuel my next three trips...all to Paris!

ssander: Thanks or endorsing the 39 steps. I am looking forward to it.. looks like War Horse is coming to the US so we may opt for the Steps. Also, we are getting the paper one-week Travelcard for zones 1 and 2 as that will allow us to get the 2:1 deals. Oyster does not, as I have learned. And yes, we will see Vermeer.

amyb: Glad to hear that the Paris one-day in March is possible. We have planned exactly what you have outlined, perhaps using the tube. It was very quick and comfortable the last time we were there. We are coming back by the 9 pm train -- so we can have breakfast, lunch and dinner in Paris. The best food in the world bar none. That was the highlight of our last trip there, and will continue to be whenever we visit.

avalon: Thanks for the vote for the Imperial War Museum.. hard to choose, as I have heard the Churchill War Rooms are wonderful as well. I am going to play it by ear.

Someone...flanneruk? jamikins? had a thread about their favorite pubs in London. I need to check that out!

Most of all, I need to pray for good weather!

bookmarking

We enjoyed both the Churchill War Rooms and the Imperial War Museum. Each has their special qualities. We spent a little over two hours at the Churchill War Rooms--I loved the Churchill museum within the war rooms. We spent more than a half a day at the Imperial War Museum. We saw a couple of special exhibits--The Ministry of Food and the Trenches along with their permanent exhibits. It really is well done. Either one would be good and if you can do both even better.

We too can't wait to go back one day. Son got sick so couldn't go to Oxford and the Cotswolds--two of many reasons to return!

Meant to say either museum choice would be good. Doesn't read right the way it is but I think you will know what I meant.

ready2go2....

Great that you are getting the paper travelcard to take advantage of the 2-for-1 coupons...I forgot to suggest that. We saved over $100 on each of our last three trips to London.

My understanding is that you have to buy it at a train station (with the Nat. Rail Logo on the card) in order to use it with the coupons. Cards bought at tube stops don't qualify.

Perhaps someone else can verify this.

[In the past we flew into Gatwick, so we had the train tickets and were able to load the TravelCard onto our Oysters. Our upcoming flight is to LHR - so we'll have to buy paper TravelCards this time....sigh...I wish USAir still flew from PHL to Gatwick.]

SS

Enjoy your trip ssander! 5 days each in London and Paris sounds great.