fine dining with infant
 

We are planning a trip to england/scotland next month with our 4-month old baby.
We love great food and restaurant research
and reservations are usually a big part of
our vacation planning.
But now with a baby, I am not sure how to
identify great restaurants that also allow (quiet!) infants in the dining area!
Any recommendations?
We will be visiting London, Cotswolds, the Lake District and Edinburgh.

I really couldn't recommend any but sugguest you re-think the idea of a "quiet" infant in a very nice restaurant. First, you cannot guarantee an infant will remain quiet, can you? Second, if you are used to dining in fine restaurants, you might think about the ambience -- for me, even if children are relatively quiet in restaurants, it's not the ambience or experience I want when I dine in a fine restaurant in the evening. It reminds me of being in a nursery school.

Perhaps you used the wrong words, because to me the term "fine dining" means something specific regarding a type of restaurant. I think you could find good restaurants with good food that would allow that, of course. How exactly to you plan to ensure that your infant is quiet?

Premal, why not think about skipping the Fine Dining experience in Restaurants and put the money saved towards staying in a 4 star Hotel or better with the best gourmet room service reputation. This opption might offer you and yours peaceful elegance and freedom for your infant to be put to bed when necessary.
Please don't ask about taking the baby to the Theater. It would be difficult for many of us to respond to "infant at theater inquiries" without being judgemental and sarcastic.
Emily

You are right - fine dining as in Michelin 3*s with dress code is certainly not an option anymore. Now I am just looking for places with great food that dont mind babies..

We have been taking our little girl to nice restaurants in San Francisco since she was 10 days old.. These are places that are more on the lively/energetic side (as compared to quiet/formal) where the baby sounds dont stand out over ambient noise but they are still great dining experiences.(ofcourse, if she starts crying, we have a problem, but luckily she is a happy baby who has always been fine as long as she is well fed!).

As a local, I know they exist in San Francisco and I am sure they do in England as well. But I just dont know
how to find them remotely. Travel guides talk about fine dining and also about family friendly places. But neither quite captures this category in between.

hum...

I'm afraid in the nex 18 years you're not going to enjoy restaurant research and reservations... eh eh eh

:-P

Ricardo Correia Duarte
Porto, Portugal
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/ricardo-duarte

Premal-

I , for one, am one of those people,who when having a fine dining ( and expensive) experience,do not want to see nor hear an infant...I love baies, but in their own element....

I would hate to be in a terrific restaurant with my husband and have to hear an infant cry-for no matter how short a period of time.

Infants are allowed in most chain restaurants near me- like Friday,Applebees and the such..IF I walked into Mortons and saw an infant, I would do an about face and leave.

It's not so much that the infant is there- it's just that the inpredictability of it's crying is what is the turn-off.

We spent time in the Cotswolds and Lake District in some very very fancy restaurants, and did not run into one infant...

You may need to go to some nice pubs in the area that accept kids, rather than any super plush places...

Folks - I am not trying to take a baby to a 3* place! I realize that it can turn off others who may be there for a romantic experience etc. I would hate that also..

But I find it hard to believe that it is either Applebee's or Alain Ducasse.
There must be something in between that has great food but not a formal atmosphere.

I think that people in Britain just don't take their babies everywhere with them like many do in the States. In fact, even young children tend not to be seen much in restaurants. In the US, we eat out just to eat. In Britain, eating our is more of an event - not necessarily "romantic", but definitely more adult.

While many restaurants in the UK do limit smoking,and a few don't allow it at all, you will almost certainly be exposing your baby to a lot of cigarette smoke.

I would suggest that you go through the old threads here, for Family Restaurants in London etc.
Or do a text search on dining out with babies, there has been discussion before on this subject.
We enjoy great food too, but unfortunately babies don't and they do get fussy after a while, so you might want to try more family style eateries.
Good luck!

Time Out is a great resource for London. They have both a dining and kids guide which you can order from their website.

In the last four years we've eaten at these places, thought the food was excellent, and the atmosphere welcoming to families.

Fish! County Hall (nr. the London Eye)
Assaggi (Italian) (Kensington)
Blue Elephant (Thai) (Fulham)
Browns (British) Islington but they're in other places too
Veeraswamy (Indian) (Mayfair)
New World (Chinese) especially for dim sum

There are some other "chain" type places that didn't feel prefab and had very casual atmosphere and good food. I can recommend Strata (Italian), Yo Sushi (obvious) and Nando Chickenland (Portuguese grilled chicken).

Travelling outside of London we looked for small inns and hotels which were known for fine food and called ahead to see if they welcomed infants (not all do) and if they might have baby monitors available (tho we ended up buying one). After putting the baby to sleep we had a peaceful dining experience. This worked like a dream at the Lamb Inn in Shipton-under-Wychwood and at the Golden Pheasant in Burford.

Go to Italy instead. The Italians LOVE children. A dear friend in Rome just had a boy and we did 5-star dining non-stop with baby and buggy. You would have thought my friend was Madonna with all the attention she received. I just love the Italians.

No. Absolutely not!!! Most hotels have baby sitting services, so get yourself situated with one. I couldn't imagine walking into Gordon Ramsay and asking for a baby chair. (Although I doubt they would admit an infant. Many top restaurants do not admit children under a certain age.) There are just some places you should not take infants. And as someone above stated, why would you subject your beloved snapper to the dangers of cigarette smoke in an atmosphere where others are imbibing alcoholic beverages? I wouldn't subject my dog to that, let alone my child.

You must be an American.

Oh, TG, no need to be arch.

Actually, Mr. Irish Republican Army, I think Premal is a troll. Either that, or not too bright. If you want to know if a restaurant will allow children or not all you have to do is ring them up. Blimey.

I knew there was a moderate anti child sentiment on this forum but why be so vicious?

premal, our son was four months old when we took him to the UK to be christened, so I understand where you're coming from. I can't help you with fine dining, as any recommendations I could give you would be 16 years outdated, and we did pubs anyway, but I can suggest this as a start: go to yahoo, or google, etc. and type in "travelling with children in England." You will be amazed at all the websites that come up, some of which I am sure will be helpful to you. By the way, on that particular trip we drove from London to Edinburg, Scotland, with many side trips in between. It was a marvelous trip.

premal:

As a veteran Europe traveler with kids - from infants to teens - I think I have some perspective on this, though not all that much experience in England and none in Scotland (and I do suspect that things are different there from the dining experiences we had in mainly France and Italy - folks maybe a bit more uptight about having young kids around).

You simply WILL have to abandon the concept of "fine dining" until the child is at least 8 or so, and even then only if he/she is truly well-behaved. You simply cannot expect "fine dining" establishments to admit a 4-month-old, even a sleeping one. They do wake up, you know, and if your baby is really quiet all the time, well, I suspect you need to consult a specialist, 'cause that's not at all normal.

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with wanting to eat with your baby while traveling, and nothing wrong with beginning to "groom" the kid into being a good restaurant companion at an early age (though at 4 months, that's a bit of a stretch). It IS entirely possible, through years of exposure to restaurants and good manners and sitting still and conversing quietly and learning to try different foods, to end up with kids who even as young teenagers can be happily taken to "fine dining" establishments, where you will all enjoy a wonderful time and be very pleased with the results of your efforts over the years.

You're many years away from that moment, though, premal.....face it. When you have kids, things change. For the foreseeable future, you are going to have to locate places - and there are plenty of them wherever you travel - where the food is good but the level of noise is already such that a baby making a fuss isn't going to offend people. THAT's where you go to dine.

As I said, we've never been to Scotland, and by the time we traveled to England with our kids they were 10 and 13 and already schooled in eating nice meals in nice restaurants, but I can tell you we had plenty of meals in noisy bistros and trattorie - always with an outside table if weather permitted so we could make a hasty rip around the block with the stroller if the kids made any more noise than the restaurant patrons. In Paris we bribed an accordion player to sing our infant daughter to sleep at a brasserie on the Place Ecole Militaire so we could enjoy a good meal. We also used babysitters from time to time, when we were in a situation to be able to engage people we trusted - so we could go out for some "fine dining" on our own.

You'll find a way. Ask the locals. Ask at your hotel. And get used to picking up picnic materials and having them in your hotel room or in a park or playground. By the time he/she's 14 months old, or 4 years old, when you travel that's where you'll be spending most of your time anyway.

Good luck!

Our kids are now 11 and 13; personally, I thought it was easier to take them to a nice restaurant than when they were toddlers...we just basically abandoned the effort during that period. Did make use of the hotel sitter services several times in nice locales (Charleston, SC and Quebec come to mind) when they were in that toddler/little child age). Had a great experience at the White Barn Inn in Kennebunkport when kids were about 5 & 7; find early seating works better...take lots of quiet toys/books to distract them...and realize you can't linger like you would enjoy. When kids were 7 & 9, we took them to England and dined at Manoir aux Quat Saisons outside Oxford...admittedly, went for Sunday mid-day instead of evening dinner. But it was a FABULOUS experience. At the end of the meal, the children (not the grownups to my husband's dismay) were invited by the maitre d' to accompany him to the kitchen to concoct their own dessert!!! Had a great experience summer 2002 Ile Hausen (??) in Alsace but did allow our son to read a book during the dinner. Teens can be as tough as toddlers. Don't give up; you'll get to share your love of fine food before you realize it!

Why don't you just hire a babysitter through the concierge at your hotel? Most of them can organize that. Brits tend to dine, not eat, and little kids/babies aren't the norm in nice restaurants.

premal, I think that if you are prepared that you should be able to get into a majority of the restaurants. First and foremost, your baby should already be in a sleeping routine at 4 months, but that is going to be interrupted by the time difference between California and the UK/Scotland, which is either 9 or 10 hours. Before you attempt to get into the better restaurants, you'll need to get your baby to adjust to the time difference. It will probably be easier for you than your baby. Once your baby has adjusted, I suggest that you dine early in the evening when restaurants are less crowded, or else once your baby is fed and asleep for the evening. Be prepared and have a pacifier, bottle (if you don't breast feed) and diapers. I'm guessing that your stroller has a detachable seat to it that will allow you to put the cradle portion in a chair. If your baby does wake up and cry during your meal, be prepared to quickly leave the table to take the baby outside to quiet him/her down so that you don't get exasperated looks from the other diners. Crying doesn't bother me as long as the parents are attentive. Babies get lots of positive attention from strangers. I'd rather be in the company of parents that are attentive to a crying baby than parents that bring toddlers and older children to restaurants that let them run around.

Also, you might ask the hotel concierge or desk clerk of the hotels that you are staying at which restaurants are more baby friendly than others.

I know others have suggested baby sitting services, but others frown upon using them. You'll need to make a decision that you are comfortable with. If I had a child, especially a baby, I don't know if I would feel comfortable leaving the baby with a stranger for any amount of time.

Best of luck. Enjoy your adventure. You'll have your hands full.