palione, here's one definition/explanation. (Sort of!)A troll doesn't have to be "upsetting", though, as this article states. Can just be attention-seeking. Often they have distinctive names, not unlike the names of spammers. I'm no expert on this, but I've participated in enough forums that my antennae go up probably too often! (Forgive me if this url is too long, I don't know how to abbreviate 'em.)
http://hometown.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

Most of us will put up with a lot of crap from our ILs just to keep the peace. Trust me- this one I know for sure!

My FIL is a horrible tipper. I mean, seriously 5% when you have worked that server to the bone??? Rude, IMO. We were always treated by the ILs and tried to sneak extra money on the table. FIL would pick it up and drop it in my purse, saying "You need this more than they do". That is not the point, nor was it true. *grrrr*

It all stopped when my hubby grabbed up the check at dinner one night. My FIL said, "I forbid you to pay that". DH looked him straight in the face and laughed, saying "Forbid? forbid? Dad, I am an adult. You can't forbid me from doing anything". He then "allowed" his dad to leave the tip with the caveat that he must leave at least 15%. :) Who needed dessert after that sweet ending?

Anyway, I said all that to say... you are adults. Only you and your DH can stop them from treating you that way. Lay out the new ground rules and if they don't like it, they can get glad in the same pants in which they got mad.

Now the clothing issue... I have no advice on that! lol!

LucieV-thanks for the links about trolls. I had figured out what was meant but the article was very informative. He wrote another one about "flame wars and flamebait" that were good too.

Who knew?! I know there are pot stirrers out there but I didn't realize for many people it is the ONLY reason they post-sad!

Reading all the response got me to thinking that maybe the in-laws want "the children" have small portions and not pay for anything because if they saw "the children" ordering full portions and eating adult sized amounts of food and then watched them pull out real money to pay for it, then --- OHMIGOSH -- they'd be face-to-face with the reality that "the children" aren't really children at all!

MaddieAstrid, the inlaws are not worried about your weight. They think "your eyes are bigger than your stomach" and you should learn not to waste food. They won't let you pay for anything because you're not old enough to handle money yet. They don't spend a lot of food because they are teaching you the value of money. You clamor to vacation in the U.S., but the grown-ups know you should see the world as part of your education.

You're lucky, I guess, they don't cut up your food for you and make you "open wide" or tell you have to finish all your veggies before you can have dessert.

Maddie, you say you need "a new strategy" besides "wine" and then talk about making points with your husband....wow. The reality is -- nothing will change and in a few weeks you will be repeating those lovely dinners all through the French Alps. Some here complimented you on your sweet disposition, but my point is...who is the 5th diner, your son or daughter? What stunning lessons are they learning -- Gramma and Grampa refuse to conduct an adult relationship with Daddy, who in turn refuses to man up when they continually insult his poor apparently helpless wife, who by default subjects Child to...this weirdness. I agree with saps and cigalechanta -- it's not an in-law problem, it's a marriage problem. Good luck with it.

You say your in-laws are paying for everything. They are not.

You are paying with your pride and self-respect for every bite of food ordered (or not, as the case may be). That is worth - or ought to be worth - a whole lot more than whatever your in-laws paid for airfare, accomodation, etc.

While you cannot stop them from splitting food with each other, and you have no right to dictate their dress style even if they were not "paying" for you, you need to stand firm on this one and calmly state your rule: If the five of you are to share a table, you do not share food, either the ordering or the consumption of same. If they protest that this is ungenerous, you can agree this might be so, but you do not share food, and you are sorry you didnt let them know before. Keep repeating your rule calmly. In the final analysis, it is the waiter you have to get onside, not your inlaws.

Good luck!

P.S. Regarding the issue of trolls, this is the Internet, we can't know what is true and what false about the personal situations of people posting. But problems with controlling in-laws are universal enough, that there is truth in the general situation, whatever the case for the specific circumstances.

The following is not meant to be unkind, this is a serious suggestion. Take a course or seminar in assertiveness training. It is possible to be both assertive and kind at the same time. This will help you not only in this situation but in all aspects of life. Good luck.

I just read through a number of your previous posts and now have a few insights that might help:

Since you go to Europe 4 to 5 times a year (just this month with your girlfriend and you were just there in May as well) perhaps you should just worry about the eating on those fun trips -- like going to all the fun nightclubs in your sexy outfits (no mention of husband in tow), and not worry about the food on the ones every two years with your inlaws? Most of us would kill to go to France four times a year and be willing to buck up for one of those trips.

Since you admit that you often over indulge in haute cuisine in France, maybe a little diet for a week with them is good for you after all?

Since you mention lots of trips to Europe with your girlfriend and even your niece, but only rarely hint at a possible additional "male companionship", I suspect this husband is new. Is that part of the problem -- have the inlaws not yet accepted you -- or is you husband uncomfortable standing up to his parents? Are these trips the only ones he accompanies you on?

Since you are a vegetarian who sticks by your convictions, it really should be fairly easy to stand up and say you want your own full meal. Are they all vegetarians too? Are you really talking about splitting a vegetarian entree five ways. Incidentally you've declared that you "often refuse to order an entree in nice restaurants" so it really doesn't sound like having to share one should be so bad.


The bottom line? It's kind of hard to feel sorry for you with all your wonderful trips having to endure this one thing every two years -- especially if you're simply not willing to stand up and tell them how it needs to be!

May I ask one more question Maddie?
Where are your in-laws originally from?

Oh my!

I will only add that DD is 28 and truly between a size 0 and 2. Everyone is always try to feed her. No one in their right mind could think that someone this small eats too much.

I'm surprised at the number of people who think Maddie is a troll. You all must have been blessed with wonderful inlaws. I have heard inlaw stories that would make your hair stand on end, and unfortunately I find Maddie's story quite believable.

Your DH really needs to step in and stand up for you guys, since they're his parents. They are being manipulative. When they can't control you, they try to make you feel guilty and uncomfortable by not eating. I agree with the person who said you should call their bluff by continuing to pay for meals and order what you want. If they don't cave in and eat, maybe they'll tell you what's really causing them to behave like that.

My inlaws are frugal and they also think that DH and I spend too much money, but their financial background is totally different from ours, so we don't listen to them, and they know it. That doesn't stop them from scolding DH from time to time, but we make sure we aren't indebted to them for anything, so they have no way to control us.

Anyway, best of luck with your situation.

If it were me I think I'd wait till they'd gone to bed and then go out again for my "real" dinner. :D

Why think "troll"? And why does it matter? Whether real or fictional, the situation is certainly plausible - I've met people just like it. So it deserves discussion as if it were real, whether it is or not. Be politely and pleasantly assertive, and if the ILs decide to sulk by not eating, Poutine is right - they won't keep it up forever. You (or preferably your husband) have to resolve it somehow.

Wow. "Man up" and "sack up" in one thread. I build my vocabulary every time I stop by ! ;-)

Very interesting topic.

One of the things I have learned in life is that everyone has one or two little less than appealing traits or preferences.

I have yet to find a way to really change any of them in anyone other than myself. And only then if I decide it's a not so great thing and want to change it.

I try to appreciate the good things in the people I love (or am related to by marriage). And ignore or let the little aggravations slide. It is not always easy.

That is not the same as adopting their
preferences or actions.

If these are basically good people who are trying to do something nice for you (by their definition of nice), let it slide.

If these little demands on what you eat are their way of hinting you are fat and they don't like it, that's different.

If you are the size you say (and I'm not saying you are not) or any size that is okay with you, do the same thing anyone does when someone says something that is incorrect and harmless. Realise they are wrong and forget it.

Do you believe they mean well and are cheap with poor manners? If so, find a way to not starve and let it go.

No one (especially me) says you have to like these little annoying traits.

Having inlaws that want to be nice to you and try to do nice things is a blessing. Don't let them abuse and harrass you. Don't be offended too easily by things that are done with kind intentions, either.

Do you know which one of these things is happening?

By the way, no one really has a right to care what you order, if the food you order gets paid for. Maybe the staff think you are not familiar with the food and only want to taste things or are light eaters. It's one table for one meal. The staff will get over it.

ePickle- let me just say- prejudiced on many levels, ignorant, and obsessive compulsive all describe my FIL. My MIL is LOUD and talks constantly about absolutely nothing and she repeats every sentence over and over. She also repeats what everyone else says so no one can get out an entire thought. I quit trying to have conversations with them years ago.

DH called his parents to mention we'd be in the area thinking we'd have dinner. They ended up "popping by" uninvited all three days.

I LOOOOOVE DH and wanted to spend the weekend gazing into his eyes and holding hands but it was not to be. I just let him hang out with them and I disappeared on and off. I watched three college football games in a row on Saturday which seemed a waste of a day at the beach. DH suggested I have a spa day but my heart wasn't into it.

Question: How old are the in-laws?
I often travel to Europe with my mother who is elderly. If I were to split a meal with someone my age, I would be embarrassed. But I think restaurants don't mind if an elderly person shares with someone. My mother will order a cup/bowl of soup and then will eat about 1/4 of what I ordered. They understand elderly people eat smaller portions. Often they will bring an extra plate when serving my meal without us even having to ask.

Sounds like large generation gap. An elderly man's pride will insist on paying for the bill. They realize they can not eat an entire meal. And last, if your in-laws were alive in the 30-40's a big Waste Not generation ordering several meals and not eating everything and paying for the wasted meals is EMBARRASSING for them.
It sounds like your DH understands this generation gap and accepts his parents for who they are. Perhaps you are an embarrassment for them, a result of the spoiled waste everything generation.
Accept it, live with it, do it to please them. Later in the evening say good night and then you and DH go for a stroll and have a bite to eat if you want. If not, then don't go on the trip.

It may be too late for this trip, but could be a suggestion for future trips. In the Swiss Alps and Italian Alps it is common for hotels to offer half board (often excellent). It usually includes a 3, 4 or 5 course dinner and is an excellent value (and plenty of food). You might look for this kind of arrangement wherever you may be.

Thank you for the info on "troll" LucieV for the explanation.

Fidel, if the OP is trolling, then any slandering is meaningless, since the family members described may well not even exist, or at least not exist as described.

Since such dilemmas (dilemmae?) start getting hopelessly philosophical - (If a person gets slandered and nobody hears about them, do they make a sound?) - the only way to treat these things is as a matter of general principle. It also nicely sidesteps any manipulation that might (or might not) have been intended, and gets down to business.

I agree 100% with Ira. Simple solution, both you and your husband should finally grow up and stay home!!!

I never accused MaddieAstrid of trolling by the way, but I do think the post above gives a very different picture from her many other posts in which she clearly goes to Europe four or five times a year, plays at trendy nightclubs, stays in wonderful hotels, and gorges on haute cuisine. All those other trips seem to be by herself or with girlfriends. Something tells me traveling with her husband may be the real problem with these "nightmarish" semi-annual trips -- and not just with the inlaws.

"When we insist on paying, they simply order nothing, either out of protest or imagined politeness"....wow, that really is immature behavior for adults...I wonder how many meals they could not order anything, but give it a go...I agree with those who say, do what you want and make it clear, preferably before you leave. good luck !

Trolls don't necessarily lie, and their telltale move is to is avoid responding. OP picked this family to marry into, and now whines and whines about it, not realizing they are peas in a pod.

Like, neopolitan, I too read some of MaddieAstrid's previous posts. Since she states she is a vegetarian, I picture the five of them sitting around her salad and divvying up the olives. If they aren't in multiples of five, does someone get extra fennel?
A real puzzle!

Soup, of course, is another matter. Do they get 5 soupbowls and spoons or are the quantities so small that dinner plates and teaspoons are adequate?

You've been had, folks.

I don’t know why I feel the need to defend myself, probably the same insecurities that cause my restaurant embarrassment.

I do not believe I have painted my in-laws in such a horrible light nor my husband as a “spineless wimp.” Furthermore, I am sure my in-laws have many legitimate complaints about me. However, they do have food issues. They believe everyone, especially Americans, eats too much. My mother-in-law constantly attempts to “pinch an inch” on my waistline and my husband who is practically free from body fat and his brother (the 5th person in our party...don’t ask how we split the 2 hotel rooms) get the same treatment. I do not take it personally (nor do I pay attention to my own mother’s cries that I will somehow succumb to starvation if I don’t consume everything she puts on the table). Aside from this one area, they are good people and treat us respectfully. They just want to spend some time with their sons, and apparently their daughter-in-law -- they moved the dates of the trip to accommodate my schedule despite my strong insistence that they go without me.

I have no training in psychoanalysis, but I suspect they equate food consumption with a lack of self-discipline. This “glitch” (as my husband and I describe it) combined with their natural cheapness creates a very uncomfortable restaurant atmosphere for me. I do NOT care about the food, it isn’t one of life’s great pleasures for me anyway. What I don’t like is feeling rude and unwelcome in restaurants. The fondue, set menu, farmers market, picnic, etc., suggestions were quite helpful and exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

As for my travel persona, I like traveling with my girlfriends, my husband, my mother and even my brother. They all bring something different to the table. I have no children, a decent job, several great friends and easy access to 3 airports. I would be no more likely to drag my husband through the Paris nightclub scene than I would my best friend through the Amazon armed with a machete, my brother down Rodeo Drive or my mother through the Havana Marathon. All these people have shared with me different passions, and even my in-laws, who “forced” me to trek up the Matterhorn a couple years ago, have given me some treasured experiences that I would have never been inclined to have on my own.

MaddieAstrid, thank you for that excellent post above. glad you were able to pick up a couple ideas that might get you out of at least a few of the restaurant situations.

While reading this, i kept thinking of the street fairs I'd been to in Switzerland when we walked around, each eating a sausage (hot dog) or a plate of raclette (the melted cheese deal). each person would definitely have to have their own!

Maddie, I don't believe you have anything to explain. Anytime someone brings something to a group forum, be it on the internet or with a group of friends, they are risking criticism and condemnation. They also find approval and understanding. It seems you've found both.
Thanks for opening up this discussion. Take what you will from it and leave the rest.
Have a great time with your in-laws & as someone mentioned; what a great blessing to have in-laws who want to spend time with you.
Now that both my MIL & FIL have passed on, I'm glad for the time, no matter how uncomfortable it was at times. Now my husband's happy memories of them include me too. (I hate to be left out;;) )

C'mon, she is complaining about a free trip to Europe at no cost to her...IF you don't want to go, don't go...if you do want to go & do what you want, pay your own way. This all seems fairly simple too me, & after reading all these posts she still, obviously, doesn't get it. I wasn't the first person on here who told her to 'grow up' BTW. You bring these types of items on a board, well, you should be prepared for the responses. Is she looking for sympathy ? Probably. She is the only one that can change the behaviours & dynamics of this situation, or it will obviously continue, ad nauseum. So either do something about it, or live with it.

Good grief! What on earth is the big deal here? You sit down at the table, you look at the menu, you say 'no thank you, I don't feel like sharing', you order what you want, you eat as much of it as you want, you pay for it or you let them pay for it.

It's just not that complicated. I'm with SAnParis.

Sorry, I too agree with SAnParis. Order what you want and eat it and pay for it. If you really don't like the whole situation, then just don't go. And your husband does need to take some responsibility and put his foot down.

So now the line is that the inlaw situation is not really that bad and this forum is laced with big meanies.

OP notes that inlaws no doubt have many complaints about her; it sounds like alternately complaining/puffing up is a way of life. It must be a barrel of fun huddled around the bowl of soup and saltine with five spoons (thanks for that image). By the way, the restaurants in my city would not serve one entree to five people "at a prime table", etc. -- will someone please explain to me if this is regularly done in French restaurants? If it were my business I would post a picture of this group by the cash register. And what about the tip?

Well, to lighten this up, at least your ILs are consistent - they are cheap and don't like to eat much. Mine are the opposite - they are very cheap, but like to eat A LOT! Free food or "all you can eat" is the best thing in their lives.

One time we were visiting them and we had all driven some place an hour or so away. On the way home, we stopped for gas and the gas station/convenience store was having some sort of promtion where they were serving free hot dogs. That was fabulous - we all had to go in for free hot dogs. (I almost never eat hot dogs, but I knew that that had become dinner.)

So, the next day, FIL bundles all the kids up in his truck for the 30 minute drive to the gas station for more FREE HOT DOGS!!!! They feel so CLEVER when they get free food.

SIL told us that the last restaurant they were at with MIL and FIL had a "bottomless" bowl of salad. Everyone had all they wanted from the first bowl. FIL finished that one and then ordered a refill and ate it all himself - free food!!!!!

Sounds like you'd be just as embarrassed if you traveled with my in-laws, but at least you wouldn't go hungry!

Maddie,
you said in one of your post you don't care about food as long as you can have a drink...so whats give? Suddently you care about food? Because you can't drink in front of natzis? Get a grip! It is a most useless topic in this forum.
There is NOTHING usefull to read and nothing to advice except GROW UP or SHUT UP!

Most of us would react the same way. I can say anything I want about my family but no one else should even try.

MaddieAstrid, you asked in your initial post for a new strategy. So far, I have read; 1) don't go if it bothers you so much, 2) go and pay for your own food, 3) go and pay for all the food. There doesn't seem to be much left to say except for the fourth choice; continue with the status quo.

And how is it that your in-laws "forced" you to trek up the Matterhorn?

Seriously---I'm curious.

I'm curious about the Matterhorn comment also.
I think it is a little more than a trek!! In fact, I think major climbing skills are involved.

I think some of us are being a little too literal here. I didn't see
MaddieAstrid insiting the made it to the peak.
Sometimes people say things like "I toured Italy, but that doesn't mean they covered every inch of it!

And I'm also a big user of those quotation marks like MaddieAstrid used on "forced". I don't think she meant they handcuffed her and tied her to a mule and pulled her. I've been "forced" to eat at a lot of restaurants I didn't really want to go to -- but there were no whips, chains, or restraints involved.

Regarding the Matterhorn trek, I assume Maddie is talking about the 2 hour hike to the Hornli Hutte, which is the staging area for the summit climb.

One cannot climb to the peak without being roped, with crampons and a guide. It is for experienced climbers only and cannot be done on a whim.

My point exactly. How can one be "forced" to "trek" up a peak that requires a guide, ropes, and technical climbing skills? And what's wrong with taking her statement literally? She says she was forced to trek up the Matterhorn, not near the Matterhorn, or partway up, or anything other than UP the Matterhorn. And she treasured the experience.

I'm just curious as to how that treasured experience, something that can only be accomplished with technical climbing skills, was forced upon her by her in-laws.