"I would also noted that the Rough Guide is likely to give you much more comprehensive coverage than Rick Steves "

It is true that RS's country guides are less comprehensive, although they are a lot fatter than they used to be. Whether this is a good or bad thing for a first timer is debatable. However, the book I rcommended, "Europe Through the Back Door", is primarily about HOW to travel (less expensively) rather than WHERE to travel. Same with the Rough Guide "First Time" book. Although RS runs tours (I have taken a few, and would recommend them to someone who wants a tour, although I prefer to DIY) the book is a comprehensive guide to independent travel.

Your daughter is getting all worked up too early. You have a whole year to figure this out and possibly narrow things down.

Randomly picking AirBnB apartments is futile, unless she uses Google Street Walks to investigate the neighbourhood in any city - and your sure you will be comfortable staying there.

Staying in the suburbs will eat up a lot of your time. You will be exhausted at the end of the day.

If she's a typical teenager, she's probably going to fall in love with the decoration - and miss the fact that the apartment is a 5th floor walkup with just a hot plate, a dorm-sized refrigerator,and an uncomfortable sleeper sofa which will give you no privacy.

I'd suggest that you get her to calm down a little and think about what you want to do and how much you can afford to spend realistically.

Short term rentals in Paris are subject to last minute cancellations, if the owner finds someone who will stay longer.

I'm bringing tourist money into their country. The least the residents can do is be grateful.

Yes, that is often heard. In fact over the last two years a study was done in Amsterdam to see what the economic effect is of tourism on the city. Conclusion: the economic benefit is negligible and in fact, tourists cost the city and its inhabitants far more than the revenues they bring. So it's better if you stay away next time.

First trip to Europe and you will be spending 8 days in Rotterdam and Utrecht -crazy IMO-maybe day trip to them from Amsterdam but it will be a HUGE mistake IMO - first of all you will have return train costs probably at $25/day x 3 = $75 a day to get there and back -no returning to accommodation during the day.

Strongly reconsider - especially for your young adults sake.

I'd say 4 days in Amsterdam with day trip somewhere and move on -for a first trip there are lots more better places to spend your time.

Pardon menachem for being a Rotterdam resident with blinders on to what average first-time travelers are looking for.

So instead of spending 2 hrs and $75 on trains day tripping to Amsterdam get a nice hotel in Amsterdam- something memorable maybe-a houseboat on a lovely canal or airbnb type housing.

Pixie--when looking for airfares, have your daughter look at Google Flights, and check the "multi-city" box at the top. You can get round-trip (or near round trip) fares if you use open jaw tickets on the same airline.

Menachem, the Dutch tourism industry contributes 5.4% in total to the country's GDP and 9.6% in total to its employment.

That means 10% of Dutch people are employed thanks to tourism. Not too mention how many families are being able to support themselves financially thanks to Airbnb.


On another note, Rotterdam should not be granted a place on anyone's Europe itinerary, unless one is homesick and wants a slice of America in Europe. In that case, I would highly recommend Frankfurt and Rotterdam.

Rotterdam is a nice day trip for many reasons but for most yes is for Europe a shockingly modern city that lacks the old-world look and feel many Yanks flock to Europe to see.

Thoughts on all the above
1) try to stay near the centre especially of London. YHA really will give you a good price, AirBNB might do
2) Bringing money does not mean people should be grateful. It's an exchange. Maybe some people should be grateful for getting a room...
3) One thing is becoming more and more clear. Large fat boats of tourists, pollute and area, both in terms of shear human waste let alone numbers suddenly vomited into small jewels of towns, while financial benefits are minuscule. Please don't take cruises.

"Not too mention how many families are being able to support themselves financially thanks to Airbnb. "

Probably less of an issue in Europe, which in general has a decent safety net. Also, there was already a thriving, legal, B&B scene before AirBnB (budget places, not the frou-frou American version). Also doesn't account for the people who are running multiple rooms/apartments as a business rather than a sideline.

If I lived in an apartment block I would be furious if it turned into a hotel. No one wants a bunch of random strangers trooping through the place they call home.

Hi Pixiegal,

Make sure you go to the places that you want to go.

Yes some places are more expensive but they should not be substituted for a second choice destination because they are cheaper.

There are ways to visit expensive places on a shoestring budget. When I was 22 I spend 6 weeks in Europe and spent $2,500, including the airfare and the train pass. This trip is one of my fondest memory even after visiting Europe many times after with a completely different budget.

Is $50 canadian dollars (34 euros) per night per person or for all three?

The airfare your daughter quoted you seems really high, especially with a lot of round trip/open jaw going for $US 300-400. Maybe it is because it is from Calgary.


And to complicate your plans further... Why not including Italy?

There are many budget hotels in Paris that sleep 3 adults and cost around €150 and will have real beds.
If you need to do laundry, just Google "laveries", which are cheap and efficient.

Pardon menachem for being a Rotterdam resident with blinders on to what average first-time travelers are looking for.

The only point I am making is that travel times are so short that it might be very worthwhile to set up in a city other than Amsterdam. Especially if budget is an issue, because hotel prices in Amsterdam are insane! I work on and off in Amsterdam, I go there quite a lot, also at night, for concerts and what have you and I do what lots of Dutch people do: go by train. Easy. And the bonus is that you get another Dutch city such as Utrecht or Rotterdam thrown into the mix with its own flavour, and a whole lot more sane than is Amsterdam at the moment.

PalenQ, something suggests to me that you haven't actually been in Amsterdam for a couple of years. It has really changed in 5 years' time and has become an unrecognisable version of itself. I lived there for 10 years, I go there regularly and I know it quite well. But I also know other Dutch cities well, and I think that the price/quality balance for Amsterdam is getting more unfavourable all the time.

Trains run until about 1am in the Netherlands, and run often

Night trains between the large cities: Amsterdam, Utrecht, Den Haag and Rotterdam operate throughout the night at hourly intervals.

Menachem, the Dutch tourism industry contributes 5.4% in total to the country's GDP and 9.6% in total to its employment.

That means 10% of Dutch people are employed thanks to tourism. Not too mention how many families are being able to support themselves financially thanks to Airbnb.


On another note, Rotterdam should not be granted a place on anyone's Europe itinerary, unless one is homesick and wants a slice of America in Europe. In that case, I would highly recommend Frankfurt and Rotterdam.

Loacker, you insult my intelligence. The study I referenced was done specifically done for Amsterdam. Yes, there are revenues coming in, but local companies, or local workers see almost nothing of it. For instance, a company like booking.com, headquartered in Amsterdam is seen as generating "tourism revenue". Not exactly a direct contribution to the city's income, I think you'll agree. And you have to offset the revenue against the substantial costs that a city like Amsterdam incurs due to the pressure of visitors. So all in all, the financial contribution of tourism to a city like Amsterdam is negligible.

googletranslate this article:
Menachem, the Dutch tourism industry contributes 5.4% in total to the country's GDP and 9.6% in total to its employment.
http://www.amsterdamcentraal.nl/arch...dam-nu-echt-op

From 2014: the situation is now even more unfavourable.

You know nothing about Rotterdam, but I'll let that go. Of course, Rdam is not "America in Europe" but a specific product of Dutch Post-war reconstruction philosophy and urban planning. As such its Dutch qualities are unmistakable.

From your statements about what you spend for hotels in the States, I thought you are from the US, but someone else said something about Canadian dollars and Calgary. Where are you? Where will you be flying from?

Also, if you are from the US, is your son in the US Army? Is the daughter-in-law who is traveling with you married to your son who will be deployed to Germany? I ask because there may be benefits and considerations for US military that would be helpful, but no point going into all of them if you and your son are not from the States, or it is not his wife going with you.

It seems as if random cities with nothing you expressed an interest in are popping up with no real reason. Example: what is there in Rotterdam or Utrecht that you would actually like to do or see? Looking at random places that offer nothing you want, looking for lodging in those random places and airfare to them is kind of putting the cart before the horse.
You have lots of time to have fun planning this trip. Concentrate for now on figuring out what you want to see and do and what places really interest you! Figure out, based on what you want to do in each place, how much time you will need there. Then you can figure out the best way to do it, and if you need to narrow it down more.

One thing that seems not being considered is allowing time to see your son. Of course, you don't know for sure where he will be, except that it will be Germany. If he is US, he will probably not be near Munich. Find out as much as you can about the possibilities of his base. There are many really interesting, charming and beautiful places in Germany. I love the Netherlands, but Germany is a very scenic country, and with a son in Germany, I would seriously consider cutting some time from the Netherlands to explore Germany near wherever he is stationed. That is why you and your daughter should keep the planning more open and relaxed at this point.

Depending on where he is stationed, you might end up going in and/or out of Frankfurt. He will certainly know in time for you to buy tickets. Munich is another big city. May not even be convenient in the end. Just a couple of things (among hundreds) in Germany: The illumination of Heidelberg Castle (once in early June), the Romantic Road, a river trip to see castles.

BTW, I do like the Netherlands a lot, and have been three times, so this is not a criticism, but wonder why the Netherlands is such a draw for you that you are thinking of allowing so much time there? Unless there are super compelling reasons for it, cut time there and see some other places. What places have your Daughter-in-law or Daughter dreamed of seeing?

Take a few evenings and watch some travel videos. Fun and informative.

You mentioned bicycles earlier. You might look for one place to rent bikes for a day of meandering. We did it in Bruges and enjoyed it - for a day. Get ideas of good places from other people.

Great post by Sassafrass. If your son is in the military -- there are many deals offered to personnel and their families. So once you/we know where he is stationed we can probably give you all sorts of ideas. Someone up thread (can't remember who what with all the detours triggered by Loacker) mentioned not being wed to airbnb. Ditto that. There are great deals on airbnb -- but there are also MANY <B>MANY</B> other places to stay on a budget.

And PLEASE answer out comments re the place you found in London -- I am quite concerned it is not quite what/where you imagine.



>>PalenQ, something suggests to me that you haven't actually been in Amsterdam for a couple of years.<<

Probably more like a couple of decades >)

Thanks again, everybody. I'll try to answer some queries that I can remember. 116 replies! Blows my kids, lol.
Yes, we are from the States, in Arizona. When I say I try to find places at or below $60/night,they generally aren't huge bustling places. However, I did go to San Diego recently, 5-10 minutes from Mission Beach, with an AirBnB for $65 a night, queen bed! I realize with 3 of us it will be much more difficult, but I was hoping to find under $100 to split 3 ways.
Yes my son is US Army, and hopefully we WILL have an idea where he'll be based. It's a year deployment, but his wife isn't allowed to go, so we're taking her on vacation and HOPING to spend a little time with him, but not counting on it. I don't know what Army services we could expect without him with us, especially when wives aren't allowed to join them over there.
I thought I did answer questions about the AirBnBs listed... I don't know anything about them and they were just chosen as possibilities for price comparisons by my daughter. I've done the AirBnB thing about 5 times now and have never been disappointed, but my standards are not super high, lol. I would never book one without reading lots of reviews from former guests. I do my research.
We DEFINITELY. want to rent & use bicycles wherever they are appropriate and easily accessed & returned.

Oh PS, I just purchased Lonely Planet, Rough Guide, and Let's Go Europe from Ebay last night. Hopefully I will be much better informed shortly, haha.

Thanks for more info.

I really think $100 a night for a three person accommodation in major European cities is a bit too low.

You can definitely find budget places to stay, but that's a bit low and the trade offs will be pretty big if you try to stick to that budget in places like London.