Budget in mind?

Germany or Portugal

I can't believe nobody's mentioned SPAIN!!

So much variety - May/June is perfect, before it gets hot hot. World class art galleries in Madrid and Barcelona. Wonderful architecture and history in Toledo, Cordoba, Granada (I haven't been to Sevilla yet). Small undiscovered towns for those folk who have wheels and like to wander. Fabulous food.

I found good single accommo with own bathroom in Toledo and Madrid for under 40 euros (make that 50, perhaps, now). Elsewhere I did the shared facilities thing because it suited me to save the money. But I doubt you'd have a problem finding twin/double for 80-90 euros anywhere you chose to go.

So it's not expensive.

And you could even get some beach time if that appeals.

Cheers.

I think you have a lot of options. I'm a budget traveler and the only places in Europe I really felt that the cost of things was a problem were Switzerland, Scandinavia and England/Scotland/Ireland. Those were all wonderful places and I would go back, but I found myself watching my pennies much more carefully.

Portugal was probably the least expensive followed by Spain. And both were wonderful. I've done four trips to those two countries in the past couple of years and desperately want to go back. I found hotels in Toledo for 35€ (single), Salamanca for 53€, Segovia for 60€, Sevilla 65€ (double), Cordoba 60€ (double), etc. (2007). Those are just examples. All were ensuite. Food and local transportation was also very reasonable.

I disagree that Italy is expensive. Other than Roma, which I haven't been to in several years, I've been to Italy four times in the past several years and to all areas north of Rome, plus Sicily, and never felt things were expensive. Venice in May June might have high hotel prices (I've only been there in July, and they had "shoulder season" rates then, not in the Spring/Fall.) But I was just there this July and this time I stayed in Padova for 60€. If you've never been to Venice I do think staying IN Venice is special but I wanted to see the Veneto cities and Bologna so just did a day trip to Venice as I'd been there twice recently. And really, the train in from Padova can be cheap (about 3€) and fast (less than half an hour). (It can also be more expensive if you get on a eurostar, but there are trains every half hour so just wait for the next one). I totally disagree with the poster who resented paying to enter churches. First, it's not all churches, and when there is an admission fee it's to cover preserving the art and architecture, not to make money. I'm totally a cheap person and don't mind at all 4-5€ to enter a magnificent building full of art. What are your priorities, give up the second glass of wine or something if money is that tight. Trains and food in Italy are very reasonable.

Part of what can make a trip reasonably priced is accommodation. I was also in Budapest this summer and stayed at a wonderful B&B for 25€ (prices were just raised slightly). That made my whole stay in Budapest among the least expensive anywhere, and very enjoyable. (It's BudaBandB, they have a web site and I can give more info if anyone is interested). I also found Vienna less expensive than I expected.

I agree with WillTravel not to close down any possibilities.

The whole thread underscores that differences in people's values -- what they are willing to spend to make a trip worthwhile as a whole and what they are looking to cut. Were I going back to Amsterdam, I would definitely get a cheaper hotel, but I wouldn't spend less on museum fees. I can well understand somebody springing for the Padova base plus train fares to Venezia, while someone else would pay the extra 30 euros for a Venetian B&B and forego wine with dinner.

Also, perceptions of expensive may depend on how long you've been traveling or where your starting from -- and just what you consider expensive to begin with. I live in Italy and I'm surprised to read people feel Spain and Italy are not expensive destinations. Part of that may be my knowing the cost of eating at home versus the cost of eating out in both places.

<i>'m totally a cheap person and don't mind at all 4-5&euro; to enter a magnificent building full of art. </i>

I'm the person who said I resent having to pay to enter a church. Yes, I agree you pay to see the art and to keep it preserved. But, I've been traveling all over Europe for the past 18 months and here is what I have observed...

Most museums/churches outside of Italy have a discount for children or they are free. Most offer free entry or reduced for students under 26 from any country. In Paris, my children never paid ANYWHERE to see art. Also in many countries the fees are just more reasonable, the museums/churches are more well-preserved, well-lit, and well marked in multiple languages or with good audio.

I have visited Rome, Venice, Ravenna, Pompeii, etc. and I just didn't think the prices were reasonable and I don't think Italy in general does as good a job of presenting the wealth of art they have. I'm happy to pay to preserve history, but I think it can be pretty steep in this particular country.

My daughter travels a lot with her international school and her Art History teacher feels exactly as I do. She has to budget a lot more to take the students to cities in Italy versus London or Paris just because of the cost of admissions to museums and churches. Plus in Italy, those students with an EU passport get a better rate than those with an American Passport so the American kids really need a lot more spending money to enter churches/museums.

I wouldn't mind 4-5 Euros for a building full of art - but you won't find that in Italy. Maybe a small church with one or two pieces of art for 5 Euros each which can really add up with a family...

This is another reason why I prefer France to Italy... You get a lot more art for the Euro.

gruezi

zeppole, is it possible for two people to have 3 weeks of UNLIMITED train travel in Germany and Austria for less than $500 per person?

Okay, here's what I'm taking away from this conversation -
1) You can travel anywhere and try to keep cost down.
2) The most expensive places in Europe are Scandinavia and the UK, and probably Switzerland.
3) We did very well cost-wise in Provence last year, and in Northern Italy (including Venice) the year before. I research our lodgings ahead of time and find decent places at reasonable prices. So both France and Italy stay on my possibles list, I think. And I wish I knew why they include breakfast everywhere in Italy and many less places in France.
4) The most cost efficient places are probably Portugal, Spain (obvious, but I didn't think of it), and Central or Eastern Europe. I have PLENTY of time to learn some Spanish, if that's what we decide.
5) There's no use in trying to predict when the dollar will be good or bad, and you should travel anyway.
6) I'm disappointed to hear that Greece is expensive, for some reason I thought it wouldn't be. Doesn't mean it's off the list yet, though.

I'm quite enjoying pondering the possibilities, you all have been a great help.

Alice