Europe Itinerary, Help!
 

Hello, So we are two 21-22 year old's planning this trip to Europe in late July or early August. We will be staying with friends, family , hostels/hotels. Luckily we will get to stay in two resorts, one in Italy and one in Spain (which we have not chosen yet). We will be getting the eurail pass as means of transport.

So what are we interested in:
Culture filled towns/cities
Historical sites ( museums, architecture, world war 2 sites, castles, old churches romantic sites, unusual sites, etc) Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

We will fly into Frankfurt, Germany, where we will spend the night (no lodging selected yet). From Frankfurt we will travel to Amsterdam, where we plan to stay 3 nights(no lodging selected yet). From Amsterdam we will pass through Brussels to Paris . In Paris we plan to stay for at least 2 nights (no lodging selected yet). From Paris we will pass through Switzerland and Munich into Prague where we plan to stay 4 nights (no lodging selected yet) From Prague we plan to travel to Venice. Once in Italy we plan to stay 3 nights in Venice, 4 nights in Florence, pass through Sienna and spend 2 nights in Rome. From Rome we will travel to Monoco (4 nights) (we haven't decided on a specific place yet, Help!) We are from Hawaii so we want to see more than just a nice beach, more cultural, small town vibe =) Lastly we will end our trip in Spain where we will spend 4 nights in Barcelona, 3 nights Madrid, I would really like to pass through Basque Country (heritage reasons) even tho its out of the way.

So we know its an ambitious itinerary and don't want to spend all our time traveling so we plan to travel during the night as much as possible and would consider eliminating places "not as worthy".

Your Help would be greatly appreciated!
>Itinerary
>Lodging
>Attractions
>Eatery

Note: We would like to spend as little as possible in lodging and don't mind spending on delicious food !

Monaco is small and very expensive. Why are you staying there for 4 days? (Especially with just 2 nights in Paris)

Just me, but I would skip Monaco and add two nights to Paris and two to Rome, or one to Paris, one to Rome and two to another place like Seville or Bruges.

Also, I would not spend the first night in Frankfurt, but go directly on to Amsterdam or to someplace in between.

If you haven't booked tickets already, I would start in London rather than Frankfurt, and spend a couple of days there instead of Monaco.

I think we need a little more info to help you. Why are you flying into Frankfurt if you're not going to stay there? Why not fly directly into Amsterdam?

Also, don't understand about the resorts. You'll be staying in resorts in Italy and Spain but you don't know where? It's difficult to plan a trip if you don't know where you're staying. Additionally, resorts are generally located outside the city centers which makes getting around dependent on a car or public transport. If you'll be on foot whenever you're not on the train, I'd recommend that you stay in the city centers where you'll find the historical sights, museums, churches, etc.

When you say you're passing through here and there, will you be getting off train to actually visit these cities or are you merely passing by them? It's a shame if you don't plan to stop in every major city you pass if you have the time.

If you want help with lodging suggestions, you'll have to give us some idea as to what you can spend per night.

I'm with ellenem re Monaco. Ditch Monaco altogether. Stay in Paris an additional day and if you want to go south then perhaps go to Nice for 2 or 3 days. Personally I didn't find Monaco particularly intersting and there are lots of better places to enjoy such as Nice (definite small town vibe with lots of activity and it's a great city on foot).

Fill in a few more of the blanks and your Fodor friends will be glad to offer more suggestions!

Thanks for all your great responses =) so the reason we are flying into Frankfurt is because its half the price, although I would love to fly into London or Amsterdam. Also by passing through those cities I meant getting off the train for the day. The resorts in both Italy and Spain are family timeshare points, so we have to see what/where they are available and if it fits in our plans if not we would skip that and stay in hostels. The plan is for the trip to last 4-5 weeks so I'm not too sure if this is too much and what should be eliminated/changed if anything. Its going to take over 20 hours just to get to Europe with the layover and flying time and that is why I want to see as much as possible but not over do it. A friend that just got back from Europe said "Do 1-2 days in Paris and a week in Monaco" and that was why I had planned it in such a way but I am glad to get more perspectives!!! This really helps. And lodging wise, I don't care to much for anything fancy, as cheap as possible yet safe. Also, I would like to see cute small towns, what are any recommendations? I know I have mentioned several cities but anything that comes to mind that was exceptional would be great!

Also are there cities that you would recommend to rent a car in? Places that would be hard to get to with the bus transit?

Good info, thanks. Am sure that lots of Fodorites will weigh in with their recommendations based on their experience.

There is a thread on this site that could be of interest to you and provide some general traveling tips that could be useful: Things you wish you knew before traveling to Europe. Put that in the search box and check it out, there are tons of little hints.

Generally speaking, the cities that you are traveling to have public transportation that's far superior to that in the US. There are also some places where getting a car is the last thing you want to do either because of the driving habits there or that the cities are so small and crowded that driving and parking are difficult. Try to stay with public transport as much as possible (which could be your entire trip).

With the right planning, your trip is sure to be a success and lots of fun. Enjoy!

First of all, dismiss any additional advice that friend who told you about Paris and Monaco may have given. Actually, in many years on this forum, I've hardly ever learned about any worse piece of travel advice. Perhaps it's also the fault of that friend that you're planning merely two nights in Rome?? For people whose primary interests are culture and history, there are very few cities as interesting as Rome, Venice and Paris on this planet. IMHO, it's also almost bizarre to spend as much time in Amsterdam as in Venice; in three days in Amsterdam, you have time to see much more than you ever wanted to, while in three days in Venice, you're barely scratching the surface. Ditto on your four days in Prague; Prague is stunningly beautiful, yes, but it's a stunningly beautiful stage set, not a city anymore (the locals having long escaped from the tourist disneyland, with its tourist disneyland prices, that had once upon a time been the city center). Also, 4 nights Florence vs. 2 nights Rome needs some explanation, at least for me.

Agree - whoever gave you the advice about Paris and Monaco should be ignored from here on out. Monaco is interesting...maybe...for a half a day. And it sure doesn't fit your definition of a cute town. AND it's wildly expensive.

Add days to Rome and Paris.

Cut back on Amsterdam and Prague and Florence.

You don't need or want a car in any major city in Europe. On the other hand, if it really is your intention to see cute small towns, you need to rethink the whole trip, which right now appears to be based on hopping from city to city.

OK so i think I got it twisted. My friend said to spend 4 days in Nice and I somehow thought Nice was part of Monaco. Is Nice worthy of 4 nights? Cost, Culture, etc
Her recommendations were Paris, Nice, Brussels, Amsterdam, Rome, Florence.
I will definitely add more days to Paris and Rome!
Other than that is there any other alterations you would make to my itinerary??
And by small towns I mean taking day trips from the big cities I will be staying in.
Small towns near the cities I mentioned worthy of a day trip.
Also I have family in Pescara, Italy, about 2 hours from Rome. Have any of you been there?

Oh wait.. Nice is in Monaco right.. super confused now, SORRY!

No, Nice is not in Monaco. Monaco is a separate country - principality, actually - about 30 kms away from Nice.

Monaco is a very small country (principality, actually) that is smaller than New York's Central Park. It is on the coast of France quite close to Nice, totally surrounded by France.

If you are planning these lengthy travels, it might be a good idea to look at a map of where the places are in relation to one another.

Nice is certainly somewhat nicer than Monaco, but just somewhat... if Monaco deserves half a day, Nice might deserve half a day, as well; though I for one am not sure whether I'd send any of my friends to either of those places, be it for half a day or for half an hour.

LOL! ellenem, I have been looking at maps for quite sometime now and that is how i got confused, on Google maps Nice appears to be located in Monaco. =)!

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=nice,+...ed=0CCkQ8gEwAA

Check the map again...Monaco is clearly about 3 inches to the right up the coastline.

At any rate, they are two completely different places. I disagree with franco that half a day is all you need for Nice. It's quite a charming city, and from there you can take some interesting daytrips. I should think maybe 3 days there would be good.

I, too, disagree with franco, although I stay in Nice in the off season. I suspect I wouldn't like it nearly as much in the summer, but it is a good base for other sights nearby.

I just checked and see you're planning to go late July and August. Is that THIS year? Do you HAVE to go that time of year?

Seems to me that you are woefully negligent in any planning for a trip that seems to be mere weeks away. No plane tickets booked for summer travel, no idea if timeshares are available weeks away. My suggestion is that you do some serious reading, make a budget, and then see if this is going to work out. End of July, beginning of August - hot, sticky, crowded and already booked in many parts of Europe. And check the airlines to see if they can even get you there - airfares are going to be higher than you think.

Thanks for your reply thursdaysd, I have to travel within that time period because of school. Also socaltraveler unfortunately its not as easy as you might think. This is a last minute trip/gift from my father (1 month away) and I could not book my ticket, resorts, etc until the other person (not American) gets their visa (which is taking much longer than we expected). If it were up to me everything would be booked but I have wait. Luckily the timeshares should not be a problem, with or with them we will do just fine. Also we have family and friends all over Europe so we are not too concerned with the fact that hostels/hotels may be booked. Lastly I just checked airfares, luckily they are just perfect =)! Thanks for all your concerns. Now if we can get to recommendations site seeing, itinerary, etc, that would be awesome! =)

I think you need a map, some guidebooks and a train schedule. You also need to know that couchettes on trains are not covered by a rail pass - but are large add-on charges. Many overnight trains do NOT have seats - just berths. And if you try to sleep sitting up in seats you ned to take turns staying awake to make sure that your luggage and valuables don;t disappear during the night. (A friend of mine stuck on a seat in an overnight train had her camera stolen even though it was on the seat squashed between her and the armrest - on the side away from the aisle. She never noticed a thing.)

As for Monaco it is VERY expensive and basically for the uber wealthy. We have gone a couple of evenings while staying in Nice (a much bigger, more interesting and moderately priced city) to go to the casino and pretend to be James Bond. (The casino definitely has a dress code and high minimum bets.)

You shouldn;t waste any time there - Paris and Rome both have a huge number of things to see. Monaco has the Royal Palace, the casino, some incredibly expensive yachts in the harbor and branch stores of every designer, expensive jeweler and luxury car maker.

You need to do a day by day list of where you will be, how you will be traveling from one place to another, train schedules - and list of hostels.

And you are VERY late to be looking for decent hostels - versus the ones filled with thieves and drug users.

Overall you are bouncing around like ping pong balls - and should reduce the number of stops and actually see somehting and get to know the places you are most interested in. Give your self time to sit in a cafe and have a drink and watch the world go by. Otherwise you'll come home just way poorer than you left. You are spending a very significant amount of money to do this trip - don;t throw it away on running in circles.

Ok, I plead guilty of not having presented my argument clearly enough. The Cote d'Azur - and Nice is probably the most pleasant town there - is beautiful for old ladies with large white hats and lace gloves and shaved poodles, who have plenty of money to spend on elegant grand hotels and plenty of time to while away on the hotel terrace or the sea front, waiting for sunset. Or for aged dandies with red roadsters and blonde "nieces". Or for people who love to watch old ladies, shaved poodles, aged dandies, red roadsters and grand hotels, or blonde nieces.
But for twentysomethings whose main interest is culture and history, who are on a budget, and who have ONE destination to choose in France beside Paris, honestly, StCirq and thursdayd: would you really recommend Nice as that second destination? And not, say, Toulouse, Arles (or Avignon), Strasbourg, Beaune (or Dijon), Tours? Or Bayonne, given that they're interested to see the Basque Country?

nessa, perhaps you should explain why you decided to allocate time as you did, so to make us understand what you really want to do and see. For example, though some others will certainly disagree, I cannot imagine to spend three days in Amsterdam but stop just briefly en route in Brussels; and actually, on a "highlights only" trip like this (is it your first time to Europe?), and looking for small town vibe, I wouldn't probably include either of them (but rather go to Ghent and Antwerp, for example).

Well, I may be old, but I never wear hats and the only gloves I own are black. And my Nice hotel (on the pedestrian Rue de France) costs 55 euro for a single with balcony in the off season. I've found plenty to do in and around Nice - for seven nights this year and six nights in 2009 (click on my name for the TR).

Not that Strasbourg and Dijon and Bayonne and Arles aren't also good places to visit, but the OP was headed for the Riviera.

I agree you need to study the train timetables and a map. By your plan, you will see many train stations but few of the cultural, historical and romantic sights that you say are of interest to you.

Prague makes no sense, especially if you plan to go via Switzerland (whatever part you mean by that) and Munich and then after Prague to Venice. Prague is too much of an outlier unless you skip the in between bits and fly Paris to Prague to Venice.

I also question Amsterdam, but at least the train connections are slightly better.

I think you need to investigate lodging options in your budget range. You may already be too late in finding something affordable/available in some of these destinations, like Paris and Venice and maybe Barcelona and Madrid.

Consider that when you say you're staying somewhere 2 nights, that means you have only one full day plus a few hours. Rome and Paris would not be such short stops on my itinerary, but obviously this is your trip.

Consider also that you're going to need to deal with laundry a couple of times. However you do it (laundry service, thru your hotel or DIY), it still takes time which you don't have a lot of anywhere.

NEW Itinerary. OK so after serious considerations and time travel between places, I have narrowed it down to this.

Day 1) Frankfurt (go straight to Amsterdam)
Day 2-3) Amsterdam
Day 4-7) Brussels
Day 8-12) Paris
Fly from Paris to Prague
Day 14-17) Prague
Fly from Prague to Venice
Day 18-19) Venice
Day 20-24) Florence (Day trips to Sienna and Rome)
Day 25-28) Barcelona
Day 28-31) Madrid


I know this is still too much...
How would you change this itinerary?
I know Prague seems to be the outlier but I've heard amazing things about Prague.. So I'm not sure what to do

Drop either Brussels or Prague preferably both and spend a few days in Rome plus add a day to Paris.

I'd forget Brussels, or at least cut back. One full day is overkill.

Did all those things you heard about Prague include a) it's old town is WAY too small for all the people crowding in, and b) too many of those people are there to party (maybe better during the week, but google stag party and hen party prague)? I would go to Budapest instead.

Personally, I think it's a crime to go to southern Spain and not visit the Alhambra in Granada.

Are you really into art? Because if not I'd spend more time in Venice and less in Florence.

I think you may be trying to fit too many countries in to the itinerary. Prague is supposed to be very cool. We are going there ourselves this fall after spending a month in Italy. BUT
If I were you, I'd drop Prague for this trip. (You will travel to Europe again. You are young.) I would not try to do Rome as a day trip from Florence. However, if you have a free place to stay that is just outside of Rome, there may be wonderful day trips into Tuscany or Umbria you could do from there. You can get from Paris to Venice via train or flight. Then you could take the train to Rome or Florence, but I would suggest you pick one. Good day trips from Florence (which can be done by bus) would take you into Tuscany to see hill towns -- much smaller and different from the big cities you'll be spending most of your time in (except for Venice, which is a lovely one-of-a-kind gem. Traveling between cities does take up some time. I think you might find it better to focus on the must-sees you both have.

So. You do want to spend some time in Amsterdam (it is a GREAT social city for young people.) You do want to spend time in Paris. If you want to do "the big three" in Italy (Venice/Florence/Rome do concentrate on those. Especially if you have free lodging outside of Rome so that you can day trip easily into town. But you might consider dropping Florence. (unless there's a time-share you can use in Tuscany from which you could day-trip into Florence.) Spain appears in your itinerary because of possible time-share availability? Well, as a 20-something I would probably choose Barcelona and Madrid, too. ESPECIALLY if you get to stay in time-shares in those locations. (Where was the other location in Italy? I will say, Italy is much more expensive - in my experience - than France, so if you can get a paid-for place to stay anywhere in Italy that is near any of the "big three" I'd grab that. If it isn't that close to any of those cities, you might want to drop one of the expensive cities for the time-share.

Most of the people on this forum don't stay in hostels (there are a few, but not many). My daughter & two of her friends stayed in several about 5 years ago, and it was great because they really only used the hostels as a place to sleep.

This is much better. I would kill Madrid - but then I don;t like Madrid (I always think I'm in Chicago - which is great for Illinois but not so much for Spain). Add the days to Paris or go to Rome. They ruled a large part of the world for a thousand years - a whole lot better than 2 museums and a Royal Palace (that IS Madrid - except for night life)>

But - you still have all cities and not really any countryside or even smaller towns - except for Siena. You may want to consider exploring one or two that is an hour or so outside one of the towns you're visiting.

The new itinerary is still not appealing to me, but I recognize everyone has personal preferences. My preferences are Venice and/or Rome over Brussels.

How are you getting from Florence to Barcelona??

The best way from Florence to Barcelona is a train to Milan and the Elipsos night train to Barcelona, unless you find a cheap flight.

Thank for all your great replies! This is really helping so much. So it seems as if i need to cut down on the smaller places like Amsterdam and Brussels right? Are they more of a 1-2 day kind of place? Also seems as if Prague would be over kill, therefore I'm eliminating Prague. Also I have family in Pescara which I believe is about 2 hours east of Rome. Is that a good place to base myself and do day trips from there to Rome, Florence, Sienna, etc?

Attempt 3 Itinerary

Day 1) Frankfurt (go straight to Amsterdam)
Day 1-2) Amsterdam
Day 3-4) Brussels
Day 4-9) Paris
fly from Paris to Venice??? (flight $80- 1hr 40 min)
or take the train and pass through Switzerland?? (fare included in pass, beautiful scenery, 9.5 hours to Milano and 3 hours to Venice) Is it worth it?
Day 9-12 Venice (Do I need this many days in Venice?)
Day 12-18 Stay in timeshare near Rome or stay with family in Pescara and do day trips to Sienna, Rome, Tuscany and Florence?
Day 19- Make my way to Barcelona (By the looks of it, it is a VERY long train ride.. over 15 hours)(not appealing but if I do take this route I would get to see the French Riviera, worth it?) Flight is only 2 hrs- $100 dollars (No French Riviera)
Day 19 or 20-25 Barcelona and small towns (I need help with this one
Also my family is originates from Basque Country, I know its up north a little of the way, is it worth the trip?
----Fly out of Madrid


Thanks for all your help Fodorites!

Day 25-30 (?)

You can't day-trip by train to Rome, Florence or Siena from Pescara. You can drive Pescara-Rome in two hours, but I don't think you can rent a car at your age so you'd have to borrow a family car if that's possible. And presumably drive back to Pescara in the dark.

When comparing fly v. train journey times, you need to add the time required to get to/from airports (whereas train stations are in the centers of towns) and the time needed for check-in and security screening at airports (which, for better or worse, are non-existent in train stations).

When you say the timeshare is 'near' Rome, what do you mean? How close? Which direction? How would you get to the center of Rome?

Hey Jean, I think we have decided to stay with family in Pescara instead of the timeshare. That way can see if there are any timeshares available in Paris instead. So you would recommend making all my travel by train correct? even Italy to Spain? Thanks!

You cannot day trip from Pescara to Florence and Siena. There are mountains to cross and therefore limited routes. The train ride from Pescara to Florence is 5 hours one way. The train ride from Pescara to Siena is 7 hours one way.

You have to decide which is more important: seeing Florence and Siena while staying in a nearby location, or staying with relatives in Pescara and visiting interesting places closer to Pescara.

Oh, hmm.. OK that is definitely too far. So day trips from Pescara to Rome are ok (not too far) but to Sienna and Florence a bit too far. Would you recommend Staying a couple days in Florence and doing day trips to Sienna and surrounding towns? Or staying in Venice and doing the day trips from there? I'm not sure where I should be based at. Also are surrounding towns in Pescara worth visiting?
How long should I stay in Pescara? Considering the distance, etc

The train from Rome to Milan takes three hours. Then the sensible thing to do is to take the direct (and comfortable) Elipsos night train (no idea how that one works with your pass). But that train runs inland. If you wanted to go along the coast in daylight you'd have a much more complicated trip.

Go to seat61.com for info on trains in Europe and bahn.de for schedules.

It is 4 hours each way by train between Pescara and Rome. The first train Pescara-Rome is around 6:15 am and arrives at Roma Tiburtina at about 10:00 am. The latest train appears to leave Rome at about 6:30 pm and arrives Pescara at about 10:33 pm. So, let's review. You'll spend 8 hours on the train and about 8 hours exploring in Rome.

If you can borrow a car, make sure you know precisely where you're going to park in Rome and how you're going to get there. FYI, if you drive, be aware it will be dark shortly after 8:30 pm in early August.

It's more than 2 hours each way by train between Venice and Florence. The earliest departure to Florence is at 7:10 am and arrives at 9:30 am. The latest return is at 9:30 pm, arrives Venice at about 11:30 pm. A day trip to Florence from Venice means 4+ hours on the train and about 11.5 hours exploring. Getting to Siena from Florence is another 1-1.5 hours on a bus or train (each direction) plus connecting time. If you take the train, you would still have to get from the Siena train station to the city center.

Ok, so this is the update..
The timeshare that is available is in Padova, Italy (about 60k from venice). Its a really nice resort , although we are debating whether we should stay in a hostel in Venice just to be in the mix and not have to travel into Venice everyday, etc.
Any suggestions?