Gee this sounds so great, you'll have a wonderful time. It reminds me of my first big trip to Europe. It was 9 months, October to June, and we kept it to $5 pp per day, a la Frommer's original. And our flights to London and back were one way, for about $100 each way.

We hitchhiked about half the time, took trains, and picked up an old Volkswagen Beetle for about $200 in Munich, then sold it again before we left. Stayed mostly in hostels and pensions. A B&B outside of London cost a pound a night per person.

Sam: hmmm....country or city?! which ever has better food ! ! =D

Franco: i think you may have perfected the itinerary =D but are you sure that that is enough time for Languedoc?!

WWanderer: I'm trying to refrain from calling you old-timer =P may i how long ago this trip occurred??

i know it's getting old but I really want to thank everyone who's taken the time to help me with this. it's far less of a headache than I was anticipating. I guess the next step would be to figure out an itinerary for each city?

oh yes, where should i stay toulouse, albi or moissac?? what makes the most sense?

As you begin to research what you want to see in each city, you will get a better idea of how much you will be spending on sightseeing. You can keep the costs down on these by downloading various tours and copying pages out of travel books that have detailed walking/museum tours (Rick Steves for example).

We didn't take any guided tours on our trip and we did just great and had a wonderful time. I actually felt sorry for a lot of people we encountered who were on guided tours. As we would be able to stand and admire or contemplate what we were looking at, the people on the tour were being rushed to the next exhibit or destination. I know they are on a schedule but I felt bad for them.

Remember, you will be spending a lot more on attractions in the cities then you will in places like the CT or Tuscany. The more you can detail the costs of what you want to see, the more your budget will come together. 10 euros here and 8 euros there for entrances do add up, so just keep track. It will help in the long run.

I'm so happy for you. Planning is a big part of the fun. :)

Albi is great, Toulouse is great, Moissac is even greater. They want to see Albi. It's reasonable, doable, not rushed. It's their trip. And going to non-standard destinations always deserves endorsement, not objection, ok?

I would put Albi really high on my list of French towns i have been - and if you saw the recent Tour de France overhead shots of town you would see why - old-world through and through from squat Romanesque churches to the great cathedral.

If i had to chose between say one less day in a place like Barcelona and add it in Albi it would be Albi for sure IMO. And it is easy to reach by train. I took an overnight train here from Paris so that is a possibility as well.

KayDoll, I've looked into that Barcelona-Genova ferry. It's an overnight, 18 hours ferry, so you have to leave Barcelona on the 12th of April in order to be in Genova in the morning of the 13th (this year, it was always either 3 pm to 9 am, or 2 pm to 8 am). So you have time enough for the Cinque Terre, that's certain.

Time for the Languedoc... well, the entire Languedoc is a large region, and you could easily spend a week or ten days there. But just for Albi - Toulouse - Moissac (and perhaps Montauban), yes, two days is enough. I think I would base in Toulouse since I suppose public transport connections will be best from there (for reaching the region from Paris as well as for getting around there and for leaving for Barcelona) - but you have to check that, I'm not a public transport expert, on the contrary!! And Toulouse is an interesting, lively town; on the other hand, small Albi is certainly prettier (though somewhat sleepy), so if the train connections happen to be good from there, as well, you might consider staying there instead.

As for food in Tuscany, the difference is not town vs. village; it's northern vs. southern Tuscany. In northern Tuscany, you'd be hard pressed to find a bad restaurant; in southern Tuscany, food even at recommended places is mostly just ok, and there are very few extraordinary restaurants. I think the most important question (much as I love food!) is whether you want to concentrate on Florence (in this case, stay in Florence), or whether you prefer to visit a variety of smaller and small and tiny towns, and either skip Florence entirely or go there for just one day - in this case, stay in the countryside. What is definitely not recommended is staying in Florence only to do many countryside daytrips; or to stay in the countryside only to go to Florence more than once. Traffic in Florence is plenty and slow; on bad days, most of Florence is one huge congestion - so avoid going into and out of Florence often.

Ah sorry, I had this window open for a while and didn't see your post, PalenQ. I agree, Albi is a wonderful place, and so is Toulouse IMO. So of course, taking one day from Barcelona in favour of Languedoc is a good possibility, too - it all depends on what you prefer, KayDoll.

PalenQ and franco :: thanks so much for your dedication and input!! It still never ceases to amaze me how much detailed information one can recieve from fellow fodorites!! I think I will stay in Toulouse and lose a day from Barcelona just because the b/f really wants to go Carcassone and I think it will be more accessable from Toulouse. And the prices for the ferry (barcelona to genova) are little expensive for the inside cabin so I think we will suck it up and just get a passage ticket (read: no bed =(..) but for the price it cannot be beat!

With Italy, I think we will be staying in the countryside as Florence would be harder to find affordable accommodations and I would personally like to rent a car and do a day or two in the smaller towns.

----->> On another note:: went back to check the apartment I booked in Rome and from yesterday to today prices have gone up E25. So glad i booked it yesterday.ESPECIALLY FOR EASTER WEEK ! ! ! (there's no way they can jack up the price if i have already made a deposit right???? i'm so worried as my luck is NEVER that good!!)

and lastly, (sorry for yet another lengthy post) I managed to find a flat in London around Greenwich area for a little bit below the budget. Will be booking soon =D

"<i>I managed to find a flat in London around Greenwich area for a little bit below the budget</i>"

Exactly where 'around Greenwich'? Could be just fine, or could be <u>really</u> inconvenient or in an iffy neighborhood.

"<i>there's no way they can jack up the price if i have already made a deposit right????</i>"

Depends - do you have the rate in writing in an e-mail or the booking confirmation?

I always stay in Greenwich - well greater Greenwich which as janisj implies includes much more than just Greenwich town -yes and parts can be rather iffy, if not from a personal safety aspect from just being dreary - but much of it is the real London that relatively few American tourists every experience and i do enjoy that aspect. BTW take janisj's advice as she has proven to be one of Fodor's top top experts on the topic of London accommodations and especially flats.

KayDoll, if you take the ferry for reasons of price only (and not because you'd LOVE to go by ferry), you may want to check airfare when your trip comes closer (currently, air tickets can only be booked until March 2011). Vueling is the company that goes Barcelona - Pisa, and it's pretty cheap, as well.

As far as Tuscany... you say you want to visit smaller towns "for a day or two". And for the remaining three or four days? If the answer is "Florence", then by any means stay IN Florence - as I said above, you'd lose way too much time going into and out of Florence with a car, plus you'd pay a lot of money to park it. (If you manage to find a place from where Florence is easy & quickly reached by train, that's another story - maybe PalenQ can help on that matter?) I can sort of recommend a budget hotel in Florence: www.ilgigliodoro.eu, 70 to 110 Euros for a double room. Frankly, I wouldn't stay there again since it's a bit too far from the center for my taste - but of course, still way closer to it than staying wherever in the countryside: we're talking about a 15 to 20 minutes bus ride to the center (S. Marco - Spedale degli Innocenti). It's a very basic place, but clean, tastefully furnished, and very friendly landlords.

KayDoll, I might have recommended this earlier - bedinflorence. It isn't in the centre, but close and the reviews are good and it is cheap. I'll be staying with them in Sept, so will let you know how it goes if you are interested.

JanisJ: the flat is in Charlesmere Gardens. I spoke with the agent in charge of renting and he says it is a 5 minute walk to Big Ben. As we won't really be in the flat for too long excitement is not too important. Safety is. I read some of the reviews and it seems to be ok.
.....and i did receive a confirmation text and email from the owners of the Rome apartment. I'm just a little scared still at my stroke of good luck. Sorry, kind of a glass half empty type of girl =/

franco: we decided on the ferry not just for budget sake but also because we'd like the experience. Now too many exciting things from where I come so we are shooting for different Thank you for the creative suggestion =D

Florence.....I haven't researched too much about that portion of Italy yet... would staying on the outskirts of Florence be better than staying "countryside" or "city"?? I'm wondering if that would be the best of both worlds? I'd like to take daytrips to Pisa, Volterre, San Gi and a few other towns if we have the time. Is Florence a very busy city that it would take more than the day??

sam86:: please let me know how your stay turned out. I am very interested =D

If you want to really see Florence, five days is exactly what you need - no daytrips, in this case. If you want to see just parts of it, it's up to you how many and which parts - anything from 1 to 4 days will be possible, of course. The outskirts of Florence, that would rather be the worst of both worlds. ;)

ahh...i see. i will be doing a little more research in this area. will keep everyone up to date!

"<i>he says it is a 5 minute walk to Big Ben</i>"

KayDoll: Are you SURE that is what he said?? If so, he is an absolute, utter liar! Charlesmere Gardens isn't even in Greenwich, it is beyond there out in Woolwich.

Per TFL's journey planner the SHORTEST time from there to Westminster (Big Ben) would be <u>59 minutes</u> and includes a 20 minute walk to the nearest train station, a 24 minute train ride, followed by a 6 minute tube ride (plus short waits between each leg). Other times of day it would take a few minutes longer

<B>This would be an absolutely <red>horrible</red> location

KayDoll, that is absolutely a horrible location, as janisj says!

I will definitely get back to you on my Paris, Venice, Florence, Rome experiences = )

I'm no expert on London but you need to use a MAP when planning! I'd never take what it says on a website or an owner's mention as gospel truth. You need to be working off of a city map, marking the sights/sites you want to visit, and the hotels or B&B locations you're considering so you can see the relationships for yourself.

Janisj: *%@*%#%^$ I've just sent the deposit to the agent for the flat this afternoon. I just re-emailed him requesting for a refund or the deposit. It was my own fault! I should have double checked on a map. Another goof, I also should have asked him about the cancellation policy before booking. UGH!! I just got too excited. Do you think that there is a likelihood I will get my deposit back??

sam86: I hope you have a great trip ! ! ! ! !

suze: i tried to use google map but i couldn't get it to plug in my locations properly. complete shame. i'm now imagining "naughty finger shakes" from all of the fodor-elders. =(

Mistake number 1 in planning the trip: Don't get over excited when you see a cheap price!!! Hopefully this crisis will be averted. Definitely a stupid move on my part.

p.s. he said it is a 5 minute walk to the market in Greenwich. I guess I took that to mean Greenwich area. again, overexcited.

i'm just talking an old-fashioned fold-out paper map of city streets! that's all I use for initial planning & then I take it with me on the trip. I prefer that type because I just add/write locations on it with a pen.

i guess Google maps, iphones, GPS and all are good too, just I've never used them.

KayDoll~ these are all newbie mistakes caused by your enthusiasm. nothing too terrible so far i don't think. but YES in the future, slow down, don't pay money until you see the location on a map, (better yet post it on this forum and give people a chance to answer) and always check cancellation policies before sending funds.

KayDoll, don't beat yourself up. Everyone goofs up, especially on their first self-planned trip! I know I have!

Fingers crossed you get your deposit back!

How much is the deposit?

suze:: hehe i was trying to get fancy by getting all hi-tech. that just goes to show you that technogology is not always reliable and sometimes the simplest things are the best.

Sam86:: thanks for the encouragement. i hope so too.

franco:: 140 pounds so $223. it was a very nice apartment and only 420 pounds for the week.

below my budget so I thought i got lucky again and made a rash decision. lesson learned. moved on. now back to square one on the apartment search.

Such a high deposit should be partly refundable at least. Good luck.

then i'm practically a dinosaur. i always travel with a paper city map, a 3x5" spiral notebook with my notes of things to see & do I've gathered, and a pen. sometimes i have one guidebook, but more often wait and pick up tourist information after arrival and plans my days either the evening before or even just that morning.
the idea of writing actually ON the map has served me well many trips now. i add my hotel, and any restaurants or shops i want to be able to find my way back to, they usually already include all the major monuments, parks, and tourist sights. (one of my better travel ideas if I do say so myself!)

kaydoll~ hang in there... you've got a great attitude and you're doing just fine.

What map do you suggest? I've been looking at a few (RS/Fodors) but they aren't that detailed. should i get a michelin? and thanks again suze. I usually run into a lot of bad luck so I've found that you just have to keep on truckin' =D

We stayed at this apt. this summer for two weeks. Great for 2 persons. See: Nadine Studio 30 sqm Paris 9e near Montmartre/Opera E-mail : [email protected] Website : http://locationparis9.canalblog.com

I usually use free maps I get for each city upon arrival, just for free in the hotel lobby, at a tourist information kiosk, or sometime sponsored by a department store or something. Or copied out of a guidebook (you could go to the library and do this). Can't you search the internet and find some detailed city maps you could print out, at least to get started?
It really doesn't matter what exact map you use, only that you actually HAVE one in front of you -haha!

well the maps i had didn't tell me the little streets that the hotels/apartments/restaurants were on. they only had major streets so i found it harder to plan with. i've actually started using my GPS and plugging in addresses with that and basing everything from the Eiffel tour. it seems to be working fine. a client of mine actually has michelin maps from last year of specific areas that i'll be traveling to so i'll be picking that up from her tomorrow =D reduce, reuse, and recycle i guess.

i'm now actually having the b/f deal with all things location/directional wise now since he's so much better with navigating and can actually read a map. (sad, i know) =P

Off Topic:: can anyone help with my situation in this thread about my london apartment debaucle???

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ent-rental.cfm

KayDoll, I guess I'm an old-timer. This was 1970 and I was just out of college. One husband ago as well. You can do the math.

Staying in Greenwich sounds great, I'll keep that in mind for a future trip. We haven't spent time in London for a long time, and so much has changed!

All this planning would be a LOT easier if you went with budget hotels instead of trying to rent apartments. Is there a reason you don't want to do that?

Hotels you can see their websites, read reviews from past guests, they aren't likely to disappear in the night, when you're there you have a front desk staff to assist you.

I just don't get the fascination with renting apartments. Give me a solid 2-star in a good location anyday. As far as 'meals' if a kitchen is why you are going this route, I do just fine with picnic style, getting things to go, and eating them (neatly and cleaning up after myself) in a hotel.

WWanderer: hehe I didn't mean to give u a hard time =P I think it's fascinating that you traveled in the 70's as I'm sure it was so much harder too! now, to some, it's become a fad to go to europe and I've beenn told by many that it's lost a little of its charm.

suze: I thought it would be cheaper to go with an apartment for the longer stays of my trip and do hotels for the shorter ones. I just figured it would be more budget friendly. are there any hotels you recommend? so far I've only booked the one in Rome and getting ready to book the Paris apartment depending on how the location pans out with everyone. any suggestions would be very appreciated. Thanks so much!

Location of Paris apartment.
30 rue Lepic Paris 75018
near montmarte

No sorry I don't have any particular hotels to recommend. More just suggesting it as a viable option for your situation.

Were I in your shoes right now, that's the route I'd be going. I'd get out the map (as I've already mentioned to death -haha) circle the neighborhood I want to stay in, and start online research for hotels in my set price range with addresses in that area. I'd narrow it down to a dozen or so. Then I'd read reviews. And when I had a few finalists post here for comment.

There is no rule says apartments are necessarily cheaper than hotels, simply not the case. Depends WHAT hotel and WHAT apartment. I also believe in "you get what you pay for" in many situations.

Why I prefer hotels is I think they are *easier* to deal with, and you are more likely to get what you are expecting. Less surprises. Plus if there is a problem you call the front desk. In apartment it may or may not be easy to get ahold of your landlord say the plumbing or heating or something is busted or whatever.

Now IF I was staying in the same city for 2+ weeks, then I would feel differently and would probably go the aparment route.

i definitely understand where you are coming from. you'll be proud as i've just picked up some maps today =0) i'll be keeping you in my thoughts as i try to read it =/ haha

will be keeping everyone updated with the ongoing planning process. and in the end after i've planned to death if some things aren't "finished" it won't matter because WE'LL STILL BE IN EUROPE ! ! ! ! =D

Maps!?!?!?!? What a concept ;-)
Seriously, that's excellent, you're a quick learner.

I guess I don't understand the difficulty in "reading" a map. It's just a map. You look at where things are in relation to each other. Especially easy on most tourist maps where they have the major sights clearly marked with an icon (Eiffle Tower Arc de Triomphe, etc.). Perhaps a bit trickier in trying to track down a specific apartment or hotel if it's on a side street, then you just have to trust when they say 5 mins. from Luxembourg Gardens or whatever.

>>Perhaps a bit trickier in trying to track down a specific apartment or hotel if it's on a side street, then you just have to trust when they say 5 mins. from Luxembourg Gardens or whatever.<<

If you have the address and plug it into Google maps or Michelin maps online, it will tell you exactly how long and you don't have to worry about that trust issue (unless you don't trust the websites). I see paper maps as merely back-up or for use on-the-ground after the more detailed mapping research has been done online.

well thats what i mean. trying to find a specific street along another so on and so forth. i once tried navigating in NY with some friends and we ended wayy wayy outside of town. needless to say it didn't happen again. lol.

i did plug some coordinates into google map but i don't think i saved it or whatever and it cleared my entire address thing. and the other day it was saying that the address from the london apartment wouldn't register. should have recognized it as my first read flag.

anyhoo..no matter what the final result is from the London debaucle i am prepared to eat the deposit if it doesn't pan out well. it can sit on his conscience and i refuse to let it ruin my trip. onward ! !

We like apartments, so I understand your thoughts on that. There are pros and cons each way, but usually a little more room to spread out, a kitchen and a washer/dryer are great conveniences.