hehe i feel like a fodors addict =D so a couple of things i am considering are dropping not going to albi from paris but instead going there from barcelona? would that make better sense? and then...renting an apartment somewhere in Tuscany and doing daytrips from there in lieu of going to french riviera. are there a lot of buses that i can access to such places as pisa, volterra and san gi?

>>>>> on a side note i'm booking the apartment for Rome from dailyflats.com and managed to get a decent price for easter week. will be near the colosseum area. VERY EXCITED since it has been franco approved =D

p.s. thank you janisj for the heathrow to bath advice. i think i will do that since my flight comes in early the 24th. and then do stonehenge/salisbury together another day.

Franco approved ---> LOL!

Distance wise yes, Albi form Barcelona makes sense. But at the moment your itinerary is very confusing because it is not geographically making sense. So:

London

Paris

Italy

Spain

(throw in Albi here)

And fly out of Madrid

Is that correct?

If Sam's interpretation is correct, perhaps you could either sacrifice Albi, or change your flight to leave from Toulouse. I like Janis' idea of flying directly from Paris to Italy and skpping the rest of France this trip. It seems awkward to tack on that jog up to the northern Languedoc region at the end just for one little town. If you must fly out of Madrid, it makes no sense at all. Truly, you have enough good stuff on your plate and it is otherwise rather nicely arranged.

Tell yourself that you'll spend one of your future anniversaries in the Languedoc/Lot/Dordogne region of France when you can do the area more justice.

Just to clarify; is your budget $5000 per person on $5000 total?

<<Budget: $5000/pp not including flights and possible rail passes(if we need it)>>

pp = Per Person

As per railpasses the one i would look at seriously is the Eurail Select Saverpass for 3 countries - France, Italy and Spain - you buy between 5 and ten days of travel to be used at your choice as you go along within a 2-month period - a so-called 'Flexipass'. Use them for your long train rides but once in a city use local transports or buy regular tickets for short treks like out to Versailles, etc. A Saverpass is for two or more names on one pass and is thus about 20% cheaper than buying two individual passes.

Keep in mind the Eurail pass if you are over 25 years old is first-class and IMO first class has HUGE benefits over 2nd class - so when comparing fares vs pass the cheapest fares are in 2nd class - 1st class after my several decades of incessant European train riding is well well worth it.

For loads of info on planning such a rail trip i always highlight these wonderful sites - www.ricksteves.com (also gives info on budget airlines in case you want to fly from one end of Europee to the other cheaply); www.seat61.com (this one excellent on train make up and types of trains); www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide for suggested itineraries, rail maps, etc. And for schedules i always use www.bahn.de - the German Railways site that has the easiest to use for me schedule info for all of Europe.

First of all, please: stop trying to talk KayDoll out of their least "standard" destination. This is NOT franco approved! ;) Albi is great, Toulouse is great, Moissac is even greater. They want to see Albi. It's reasonable, doable, not rushed. It's their trip. And going to non-standard destinations always deserves endorsement, not objection, ok?

KayDoll, combining Albi/Toulouse with Barcelona is a good idea IMO. As far as I see it, you are leaving Paris on April 5th... While janisj's idea of booking a cheap flight from Paris to Italy is certainly a good one, I don't manage to combine this idea with your Rome apartment dates (which I suppose you won't want to change, and justly so). So what I would suggest is: Paris - Toulouse/Albi/Moissac/Montauban (I leave it to you to check transport options, but a fast train to Toulouse should be easy to find from Paris), 3 days in that area. On the 8th, move on to Barcelona. On the 12th, two options for moving on: either take the ferry Barcelona - Genova (I don't know it first-hand, but a long time Fodorite has often recommended this ferry as convenient and cheap), proceed to the Cinque Terre; or take a cheap flight to Pisa (Vueling is offering such flights), and proceed to the Cinque Terre, as well, where you'll stay three days; in the morning of the 15th, go to your (still to be determined) rural Tuscan rental, for 5 days now (there's still one day left from skipping Nice); 20th to 27th, Rome; on the 27th, train to Venice; on the 1st, take a cheap flight to Sevilla or Granada (plenty of such flights available); 3 days in each town, so you arrive in Madrid on the 6th, just as in your original plan. If you want to check cheap flights, please go to www.whichbudget.com

the trip to st. cecilia is a personal choice. she is my patron saint so i'd very much like to pay homage even if it is out of the way. should i consider spending a few days in that area after paris and flying from there to italy??

unfortunately, i cannot change my flight as i booked it non refundable. (the route seemed so much better in my head) and it's what i got for the best price ($590 open jaw r/t)

soo....would this make more sense geographically and transport wise?

fly into heathrow and take transportation to
-Bath (1 night)bus from
-Bath to London (7 nights) take chunnel to
-London to Paris (7 nights) train to
-Paris to Albi/Languedoc region (3 nights) fly to

(please let me know what makes most sense in this region)

-Venice (3 days) train to
-Cinque Terre (3 days)train to
-Tuscany region (5 days)::stay in Florence with 1 daytrip to volterre???::: train to
-Rome (7 days) over easter :: fly to
-Seville (4 days) train to
-Granada (2 days)train
-Barcelona (4 days)train
-Madrid (3 days)fly home =(

don't know it that works better. i don't really want to cut anything else out though.

KayDoll, this way, you wouldn't arrive in Rome in time for your reservation. I think the order of places I outlined one post above yours would work better.

KayDoll, let's do this again with dates:

March 23 - London to Bath
March 24 - London
March 30 - Paris
April 5 - Albi
April 8 - Venice
April 11 - Cinque Terre
April 14 - Tuscany
April 19 - Rome
April 26 - Sevilla
April 30 - Granada
May 2 - Barcelona
May 6 - Madrid
May 9 - go home.

Clearly there is something wrong... = /

In terms of geography, it MIGHT be easier to go from Rome to Barcelona to Sevilla. I'm not too sure about if the transport will work out that way.

Indeed, sam: Barcelona is out of place in your schedule. I think I had solved it a few posts earlier... perhaps I should write it as neatly arranged as you did, so here goes, once again:

March 23 arrival, to Bath
24 to London
30 to Paris
April 5 to Albi/Toulouse area
8 to Barcelona
12 to Cinque Terre
15 to Tuscany
20 to Rome
27 to Venice
May 1st to Sevilla or Granada, depending on which flight you prefer
May 4 to Granada or Sevilla, respectively
May 7 to Madrid
May 11 fly home

Franco, I do like yours better = ) Especially since it fits the Rome dates, and I don't think that is possible any other way

That's what I think, too - and why I said, earlier on, good as janisj's idea of flying from Paris to Italy is, it just doesn't match the dates for the Rome apartment. But this way, Venice - southern Spain would be done by plane; and probably also Barcelona - Pisa (unless they choose to take that ferry that I mentioned above). Which should save some money as compared to trains.

True. I'd think the ferry would be nice in terms of the weather too.

Franco:: yes i agree. that route works much better. I plotted both of our schedules on railsaver.com and your itinerary makes much more sense however i switched venice and tuscany. i would like to spend a little more time in that region (that would not be too much out of the way will it?) so i think this will be the final itinerary::

plane gets in on 24 on march due to time change (forgot about that)

March 24: London (will do daytrip to Bath/Stonehenge)
March 31: Paris (daytrip to Versailles)
April 7: Albi/Toulouse area
April 10: Barcelona (will use ferry)
April 14: Cinque Terre
April 16: Venice
April 20: Rome
April 27: Tuscany (Should i stay in Florence? daytrip to Pisa,Volterre, and San Gi)
May 2: Seville
May 6: Granada
May 8: Madrid

return home May 11.

sounds better???

Definitely. The only question they'd have to check is how long the trip by ferry is (I have no idea, just read that it's nice and cheap). By plane, they'd arrive in Pisa in a heartbeat, and could spend the better part of that day in the Cinque Terre (convenient air schedule provided). OTOH, even if the ferry takes a few hours longer (and sure it does!), they have time for it IMO if they love to go by ferry, since 3 days for the Cinque Terre are plenty (astonishing scenery, true, but just five hamlets, each in its own valley and cove).

I'm personally someone who loves ferry travel. I really wanted to take the ferry London to paris for my own trip, but it was costing more than the Eurostar. But I took the ferry from Penzance to the Isles of Scilly and absolutely loved it. The views make the time taken totally worth it.

KayDoll, the Florence decision would be a matter of preference. Countryside or city?

Oh also, what interests you more - art and architecture (Florence) or the more relaxed countryside views of a smaller town? Also, price might be a consideration on your budget.

Ah, cross-posting, sorry - my post was meant in response to sam! Not combining Tuscany and the Cinque Terre is giving me pain, I must say - they're neighbouring each other!! I know it's me who talked you into spending 3 days around Albi, but what about making that just two; I also notice that I shortened your Paris stay, involuntarily, by one day; and we're losing one more day due to the plane arrival. Let's see:
March 24 London (with daytrip to Bath)
31 to Paris
April 7 to Toulouse, see Toulouse that day
8 see Albi and Moissac (that's perfectly possible)
9 to Barcelona
13 ferry to Genova, train to Cinque Terre
15 Tuscany - that way, you have precisely the same 5 days there that you have in your last example, but in a geographically more sound order (hence more time-effective, too, and you'll spend some more hours in Tuscany, that way)
20 to Rome
27 to Venice
May 1st to Sevilla
5 to Granada
7 or 8 to Madrid (depending on where you'd rather spend that extra-day)