English Gardens Itinerary Advice please
 

We will be in England in mid May spending a week in the countryside. We are focusing primarily on garden and houses for this week. Could you review our planned itinerary - I can't decide if we have too much on our plates.

Day of arrival- Drive to Windsor and tour the castle then go to Oxford where we will spend the night

Day 2- (Sat) drive to Stratford-upon-Avon; visit Anne Hathaway's cottage; early dinner and performance at the Royal Shakespeare Theatre

Day 3 Sun- Midlands Gardens Tour:
Hidcote Manor Garden
Broadway for lunch
Snowshill Manor
Mill Dene Gardens (if they are open that Sunday)

Day 4 Mon Drive to Salisbury- on the way visit the Vale of the White Horse; then Salisbury Cathedral & Mompesson House Any suggestions for restaurants in Salisbury?

Day 5 Tues- Wilton House; Stourhead and Stonehedge

Day 6 Wed- Drive to Royal Tunbridge Wells - Is it terribly out of the way to go to Brighton and visit the Royal Pavilion?

Day 7 Thurs- Visit Knole House, Sissinghurst & Hever Castle

We plan to get the National Trust passes. Since we are over 60 will our passports or drivers licenses suffice for proof for senior discounts?

Have we missed anything or including something that isnt worth the time?

From there we go into London for a week.

I just skimmed because I'm heading out in a couple of minuted but >>Day 7 Thurs- Visit Knole House, Sissinghurst & Hever Castle<<

Would be a VERY full/nearly impossible day. Each requires about half a day (not fully half a day each but when you factor in the travel time and lunch - yep basically half a day each.) Just the drive from Hever to Sissinghurst takes about an hour and Knole > Hever 30 - 40 minutes.

Sissinghurst fits well w/ Scotney Castle Gardens. Knole and Hever could be done on the same day.

sounds wonderful - there is a wonderful garden down the road from Hidcote (which we loved) and could be easily visited in the same day, but the name escapes me. We also loved Blenheim Palace (home of the Churchills) and Sudely Castle (Katherine Parr's final home) I can't speak to the whole itinerary but Day 5 sounds pretty full as Stonehenge is definitely worth at least half a day. hope you have a wonderful time

My reading of senior membership is that you have to be a current member for at least 5 years in the past 10 to get National Trust Senior .

janisj, just the sort of reply I was hoping for. I will adjust the two days in Royal Tunbridge Wells.

lauramsgarden, I think you are referring to Kiftsgate Court Garden. They are open in the afternoon and we were planning Hidcote for the morning. Should we rearrange the order that day to accommodate Kiftsgate?

northie, oops I wasn't asking about the National Trust Senior. Just general senior discounts.

Not sure if you have time, but it would be cheaper to buy a US Royal Oak membership rather than a UK National Trust one. You get the same benefits.

https://www.royal-oak.org

thursdaysd, the Royal Oak membership is $95 for the year which is cheaper than the National Trust touring pass for £52.00 for 7 days. Unfortunately I don't think we will be back to the UK within the year to take advantage of the Royal Oak membership. Thanks for the information though.

sounds wonderful - there is a wonderful garden down the road from Hidcote (which we loved) and could be easily visited in the same day, but the name escapes me.>>

Yes it's Kiftsgate and yes definitely worth it.

I agree that you won't be able to see Knole, Hever and Sissinghurst all in one day. Another garden that you could team with Sissinghurst is Great Dixter, a garden created by plantsman Christopher Lloyd and now maintained by a trust set up in his name. For those who are interested in garden design and the use of plants, it's a must and I'd definitely prioritise it over Scotney, nice though that is:

https://www.greatdixter.co.uk

it's only about 30 mins from Sissinghurst and less than an hour from RTW.

That's definitely where I'd go!

I agree - Great Dixter would be a really good pairing w/ Sissinghurst.

Very nice trip plan; how lovely to see all those gardens. One you might try to fit in is Virginia Water, near Eton. You may know this--I didn't and only learned it from a British friend whom we visited--but Stourhead is pronounced as in "sour." And Reading is Redding. Love those place names!

lol, underhill, that there might be a pronunciation problem didn't even occur to me.

So for the sake of completeness, Hidcote is pronounced "Hidcut" [or something like that,] not "Hidcoat".

One place I would <B>100%+</B> try to get to is RHS Wisley. It fits in nicely on day 6 (instead of Brighton) since it is very near the junction of the M3 and M25 which is the fastest way from Salisbury to RTW. One could very easily spend an entire day there but half a day en route would be a wonderful addition to your gardens theme. Have lunch there too -- the main restaurant is closed while the Welcome center is being rebuilt but there is a coffee shop and I think another cafe. More to see than at even some of the 'biggies' like Kew or Sissinghurst.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/gardens/wisley

JJ - i would agree with you about Wisley being 100% worth a visit, but I don't think that you can really compare it with Sissinghurst, or any of the National Trust properties which each has a character of their own. Wisley, OTOH has wonderful plants in abundance, but character perhaps not quite so much.

Oh -- I didn't mean it was 'better' or even charming. But it really does have a lot to see and the demonstration gardens, the glass houses, the 400+ foot herbaceous/mixed border etc, are a gardener's dream. The place is ENORMOUS.

http://www.nathancphotography.co.uk/...GlassHouse.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7384/1...6f577367_b.jpg

http://www.visitsurrey.com/imageresi...=ProductDetail

Heck -- I spent nearly an hour just out in the trials fields.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/getmedia/36eb...HS-0005659.jpg

I had been considering RHS Wisley since we joined the society to get tickets to the Chelsea Flower Show the following week. I know I am going to be so sad that I won't be able to take plants or seeds home with me but ideas will be great.

Thanks for all the great comments and ideas.

AGM, I'd forgotten that you'd joined the RHS. As well as the main RHS gardens like Wisley and Rosemoor [the closest one to us] which are free to members and a guest, they have "partner gardens" all over the country some of which may well be on your route/list - I note that Mill Dene is mentioned:

https://www.rhs.org.uk/gardens/searc...er&facets=10;1

They offer discounts at different times of the year so you may not be in luck, but it's worth a try!

ACM, this sounds like a wonderful trip. I've visited a few of these gardens, but not all of them. I'm a little envious :)

Ok So we have changed Days 6 & 7 to

Day 6 Wed- Drive to Royal Tunbridge Wells - RHS Wisley & Sissinghurst

Day 7 Thurs- Visit Knole House & Hever Castle

Would RHS Wisley be better than Great Dixter? Oh so little time so many things to see!!!

Underhill we are from MA so know about pronunciation issues. I am sure we will flub a number of them.

>>Day 6 Wed- Drive to Royal Tunbridge Wells - RHS Wisley & Sissinghurst<<

I really don't think that is possible. The drive from Salisbury to Tunbridge Wells (about 3 hours) plus several hours at Wisley will eat up the day.

Salisbury > Sissinghurst > Tunbridge Wells is about a 3.5 hour drive so again - just the one garden pretty must fills the day. But maybe you could squeeze in a short visit to Great Dixter..

:( So we will just plan on Sissinghurst on Day 6. We have to return the car to Gatwick on the 8th day and go into London. Maybe we will plan to return it later and go to Wisley that morning.

Thanks for all the advice.

>>Maybe we will plan to return it later and go to Wisley that morning. <<

That is VERY doable. The total drive from Tunbridge Wells to Wisley to Gatwick is between a 90 minute and 2 hours. So you could leave after breakfast and be at Wisley before 10AM. Wisley to LGW is a quick drive.

Do you have any suggestions for the best way from LGW to London- Earl's Court area? I figure you are on a roll! ;)

>>Do you have any suggestions for the best way from LGW to London- Earl's Court <<

Pretty easy. Train to Victoria, then the tube or a cab to Earl's Court.

Happy to help ;)

Would RHS Wisley be better than Great Dixter? Oh so little time so many things to see!!!>>

IMO no, but the best thing would be for you to see both and make your own judgement. I would almost say go to Dixter instead of Sissinghurst; Christopher Lloyd is a much bigger figure in english gardening over the last 50 years than Vita S-West and it would be difficult to overstate his influence. It would be absolutely top of my list.

However, I think I can see how you can see all 3 - so long as you are happy to put Hever on the back burner.

Day 6 - Drive from Salisbury to Wisley - 90 mins or so. then Wisley to T. Wells is another hour or less on the M25/A21

Day 7 - Sissinghurst and Great Dixter.

You could go to Hever on Day 8 - it's more or less on the way to LGW.

Hope I've helped!

>>You could go to Hever on Day 8 - it's more or less on the way to LGW. <<

I like that idea -- Better than trying to squeeze in Wisley on the drive to LGW.

an alternative to Hever that I thought of today is Chartwell - which was the home for many years to Churchill and his family, and has lovely garden, complete with black swans.

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/chartwell

the countryside round there is very beautiful too. Whether you choose Chartwell or Hever depends partly on which bit of history you're most interested in, I suppose - C16 or C20!

[it's quite close to where we used to live so I know it quite well!]

Or Penshurst Place/Gardens

In face -- me personally probably choose Chartwell or Penshurst Place (one mad day I manages Hever, Penshurst and Chartwell all on the same day starting from Gatwick)

All three are 35-45 mins from LGW

>>In fac<B>t</B> -- me personally . . .<<

"Since we are over 60 will our passports or drivers licenses suffice for proof for senior discounts?"

In most cases yes, though few of us are so well-preserved as to be ever asked for proof. I'm never asked to show anything, though my exceptionally young-looking (and almost precise coeval) wife sometimes is. A driving licence is always adequate.

But this disgraceful scam our generation pulls on the young is getting increasingly rare in Britain.

Theatres increasingly don't discriminate against those struggling to pay a mortgage, and expect us all to pay our whack (though, oddly, many cinemas still offer this absurd relic of a time everyone died the day after retiring). A growing number of gardens, sensibly, have twigged the commercial insanity of offering cheaper entry to most of their visitors.

On transport, there's no universal concession for oldies: trains will sell you a Senior Railcard for ~£30, which is terrific value if you're going to be spending over ~£90, but pointless otherwise. All UK residents over retirement age get a pass entitling us to free bus travel - but it's not available to non-residents, and politicians are quietly steeling themselves to divert this money on people who need it.

Age concessions are irrelevant in our most visited museums and art galleries because most allow universal free entry to their permanent collections.

To simplify hugely: the discriminatory practice at present continues in privately-owned stately homes (like Blenheim), Anglican cathedrals and major churches (like Westminster Abbey), royal palaces, some (though a declining proportion of) Oxbridge colleges and most temporary exhibitions at publicly funded museums and art galleries.

I give it 10 years max before it's outlawed.

"Since we are over 60 will our passports or drivers licenses suffice for proof for senior discounts?">>

you probably won't be asked for anything at all to prove your age, [or indeed anything else]. I never have been and I'm exceptionally young looking for my age [which makes their failure to ask all the more strange!]

in fact at one garden we visited recently, we were entitled to one free entry by dint of showing my RHS card, which stupidly [as DH kindly told me] I had left at home. no problem - they let me in for free anyway.

I will have to investigate the new garden suggestions.

Thanks for the commentary on senior citizen discounts. Almost makes me feel guilty for looking forward to cutting my daily commute from $22 to $11 by the dint of making it to 65.

When my father was 95 ( and a very young looking 95) he was very pleased to be asked for proof that he was old enough to buy alcohol. So sometimes they go overboard with asking for proof.

Was the Brighton Pavilion eliminated? I think that that is more of an oddity than a must see.

Stourhead is more than a pretty garden and has had international influence, worth reading about in advance.

If your intention is to arrive at Earls Court by tube, you could consider foregoing the one way car rental fee you might incur at Gatwick (and also skip the Victoria station transition) and just return the car at Heathrow and take the tube from there. I have had one way fees part of a reservation and, as long as I hadn't prepaid anything, was able to have the one way fee dropped if I returned to the original rental location.

I've never had a drop off fee between LHR/LGW though YRMV.

Re dropping at LHR, IMO that would ONLY make sense if you visited Wisley that day. If you are visiting any of Hever/Penshurst/Chartwell - then dropping it at LGW makes much more sense.

tom_mn - I don't want to disagree with you but I'd rather pay a one way fee [or stick pins in my eyes] than drive round the M25 from LGW to LHR if I didn't have to.

it's much more convenient for AGM to drop the car off at LGW and get the train, and faster too.

Since I am not sure I could change to returning at LHR it will have to be Gatwick.

annhig, please no needles in the eyes!!

The Google maps route from Salisbury to Royal Tunbridge Wells takes us along the M25. Is there another route that would be better?

>>The Google maps route from Salisbury to Royal Tunbridge Wells takes us along the M25. Is there another route that would be better?<<

If you are visiting Wisley that day you pretty much must take the M25.

And if you aren't visiting Wisley -- other routes would have you zig zagging cross country and through several congested towns. What day of the week is it? The good thing is if you do visit Wisley you can leave there in the early afternoon before the heavy commute traffic starts. (to get to the M25 you will take the M3 which can also be crowded -- but I'd still go that way)

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, it's just an option I would evaluate in the same situation, more driving but a lower cost (in fares at least). Some Victoria/tube transfers are a pain but I don't know this particular one. I noticed midday in London today (Saturday) the M25 was free flowing in this quadrant.

Taking the train then a cab is certainly a classier way to go, a small splurge that would be greatly appreciated after a long day.

Back to Stourhead: it really is an important place and one of the most significant sites in England. Most visitors assume it's just a dressed up scene but large amounts of earth were moved to create it, really a first in Europe.

I noticed midday in London today (Saturday) the M25 was free flowing in this quadrant.>>

weekends are noticeably less busy on the M25 because the weekday commuters aren't using it but during the week it can be a nightmare at any time of the day or night - it just takes one accident to bugger the whole thing up and reduce it to the world's largest car park. OTOH I have known times when we have sailed along, but unfortunately you can't tell in advance whether you'll be lucky or not.

Certainly it should be better between 11 and 4 than it is earlier and later, but try if at all possible to avoid Friday afternoon - which is POETS day [piss off early tomorrow's Saturday]

I agree with JJ that the most sensible route from Salisbury to T. Wells is on the M3/M25 and if you're going to Wisley, you don't really have any choice. Google suggests that it's about 90 mins drive on that route, so if you time your departure well [I'd leave it till after 8.30 as if you leave early, you risk hitting the heavy morning traffic on the M3/M25 round London] you should be there for about 10am, giving you several hours there before you leave for T. Wells which should take you about an hour.

[BTW no-one says the Royal anymore, not even people who live there, but you need to say the Wells bit to distinguish it from nearby Tonbridge which confusingly is pronounced just the same as Tunbridge].

We will be coming around the M25 on a Wednesday. The idea of us being there before 8:30am is laughable. The M25 sounds like the miss-named Southeast Expressway going into Boston

Annhig thanks for preventing our appearance as real rubes. We will now refer to the town as Tunbridge Wells. Will have to remember POET's day which explains why I don't hear from U.K. Coworkers on Friday. ��

lol, AGM, I was suggesting leaving no earlier than 8.30, not getting there then! Wednesday should be as good as any other day of the week.

I'm glad to have explained the otherwise inexplicable absence of UK workers from their desks on Fridays.