England/Scotland/Wales Planning-Summr 2014
 

We are planning a trip next summer and would like to visit England, Scotland, and Wales. The only place we have really spend any significant time was London 10 years ago (when my son was 10). We will be on land for about 14 days and will be traveling exclusively via public transportation.

We like cultural and historical sites (castles, interesting museums, monuments) and picturesque countryside and scenery. We like to visit smaller towns and we like food. I am embarrassed to say that I am not much of a hiker but we do enjoy brief walks (1-2 miles) if there are interesting sights to enjoy along the way.

Since my son is in school, we can only travel in the summer. Is there any preferred summer month to travel?

Any itinerary/travel help and tips would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

the classic loop - London - York - Edinburgh - Lake District - North Wales - Bath - London may be a nice trip - easily done all by rail. For lots of great info on British trains check out these IMO superb sites - www.seat61.com - the Bible for British trains now; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. also consider a BritRail Pass that lets you hop on any train anytime - just show up - and you son and any kid under 16 gets a free pass to match yours - never paying a dime for any daytime train.

There are also night trains between London and Edinburgh but I think York is a diefinite must if going up the East Coast Rail route.

Thanks PanenQ. This will give me a great place to start. I will look at those sites. Thanks again.

another possibility, jj, assuming you are going to have round-trip flight tickets into and out of London, is to leave london immediately you arrive, and travel to your furthest most destination [eg Edinburgh] then work your way back. flying open jaw into Edinburgh and out of london would be even better.

W/ just 14 days you really don't have a lot of time for a big loop itinerary like PQ describes. Consider annhig's idea. If it was me (and i had to do round trip in/out of London) I'd land at LHR, fly immediately to Inverness. Recover from the jet lag/travel in Inverness one day and then head out on a semi-linear route: Inverness, possibly Skye, Edinburgh, Hadrians Wall, either York and the east side or the Lakes/Wales/west side, Bath, London.

The best time in summer would be basically June through early/mid July. Mid July through August is when most UK/European schools are out and when most families take vacations, and when things get much more crowded. ESPECIALLY Edinburgh which is totally filled to the gills all of August w/ all the festivals and Tattoo.

If it was me- I mean if it were me, I did not advise doing the whole loop but picking and choosing something out of a circular trip that is possible by public transportation like OP asked - I would probably first ax North Wales or Wales in general and do a London - York - Edinburgh - Lake District - Bath - London trip and may leave out the Lake District and so a day trip from Edinburgh like to St Andrews, a sweet seaside town in addition to being the home of golf or Stirling or both or take one of those mini-bus tours into the Scottish Highlands for a day (lots available once there check the Edoinburgh Tourist Office on top of Waverly station (http://www.visitscotland.com/en-us/i...centre-p234441).

We did that tour in 2007 but rented a car to travel outside London rather than taking the train. I did a report at http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...g-vacation.cfm that goes through the places we stayed and sites we saw. Driving gave us flexibility to go exactly where we wanted to go but I can certainly see the merit of just riding the train. This site has a wealth of information and I think every town and city has its own website describing its attractions. The key is planning, as you are doing, picking out your stopping points and establishing your itinerary of what to see in each spot according to your interests. The British countryside is beautiful. We went in late May and early June -- I would suggest going as early in the summer as your son's school calendar allows. I would say that you should do the loop going up the East side of Britain to Edinburgh then down the other through the Lake District and Wales and Bath to London -- you will be busy but it will be worth it.

I would say that you should do the loop going up the East side of Britain to Edinburgh then down the other through the Lake District and Wales and Bath to London -- you will be busy but it will be worth it.>

Yes for a first-time visit this is the classic tour and can be done by public transportation as OP wishes or by car - car giving you more freedom hit places like Hadrian's Wall or bits of Wales that are harder to easily do by public transit.

But yes that is IMO a great loop for first timers - the East Coast and West Coast being very different in its attractions.

<i> For lots of great info on British trains check out these IMO superb sites - www.seat61.com - the Bible for British trains now</i>

That tears it - either PalQ is the man in seat 61 or he's getting a cut.

There is a website for all British intercity rail, www.nationalrail.co.uk.

There's no way to do PalQ's loop en toto in 14 days unless you want to spend a whole lot of it on the train. Northern Wales has better castles, but the transport links are inferior (slow trains) to what's available in the southern part of the country (fast trains from Cardiff and Swansea to Paddington).

If you want to see countryside, you should consider renting a car in Scotland and/or Wales.

This statement <i> we like food</i> needs context. Most people like food, just as they like air and water. Anything you're specifically looking for?

you could easily get a train to Chester and then rent a car there for exploring North Wales then the welsh marches where there are loads of castles, then return the car in Bristol, which is a great [and so far as tourists are concerned] unknown city with great train connections to Bath [30 mins] and London [about 90 mins]. Great restaurants there too.

If thinking of renting a car for a few days and also going by train check out the BritRail Drive Pass - giving you X number days of train travel and X number days of car rentals to be used anytime over a 2-month period - take the train to Chester for example like annhig suggests - drive around and return car to any other main train station to go on by train.

If you want to go to Wales you should IMO go for a few days and not just do a pass thru - Llandudno is a great base for North Wales and its panoply of awesome sites - castles of your dreams - a seaside resort with, in theory, water warm enough to swim in in summer and the stupendous steam train up Mt Snowdon.

Bodiam and Caernaerferon (sp?) are the castles of your dreams - right in Llandudno - which has a surfeit of inexpensive B&Bs and hotels if on a budget - there is also the Great Orme and the Great Orme tramway - your kid may like - it climbs a mountain of sorts overlooking the sea - you sea mountain goats up there and views all the way to Blackpool, glorious Blackpool which could make a sweet stop by rail going south from Scotland for your kid - Blackpool Pleasure Beach being the top paid admission thingy I have read outside of London - it's a theme park on the beach with the Pepsi Max, once the world's largest roller coaster - I took my son there at that age and he loved it and tacky Blackpool (according to most) as well.

But for a few days in Wales Lladudno is great - trains and buses take you everywhere.

>>Bodiam and Caernaerferon (sp?) are the castles of your dreams - right in Llandudno<<

???

Caernarfon Castle is in . . . <i>Caernarfon</i>, not Llandudno. They are 30 miles apart.

And Bodiam Castle is in . . . Kent, southeast England.

Could you by <i>any</i> chance been talking about Conwy Castle, which is about 5 miles from Llandudno.

And perhaps Beaumaris Castle in place of Bodiam? Beaumaris is located in Beaumaris, Anglesley not far from Conwy.

Oh - yes - PQ could have meant Beaumaris. At least they both start w/ 'B' ;)

Been years since I was there. But Beaumaris is also about 30 miles from Llandudno.

There are no direct flights between Heathrow and Inverness now. However, both Flybe and Easyjet have direct flights from Gatwick.

I want to give an endorsement for Conwy! Wonderful castle and medieval city walls for walking. Great B&Bs, local cask ales and food (especially cheeses, meats, and everything else they have available when you are there), and a great base to explore the other iron ring castles (Beaumaris and Caernarfon). Oh,now I want to go back!

A Blwyddyn Newydd Dda!

Could you by any chance been talking about Conwy Castle, which is about 5 miles from Llandudno.>

Beaumaris was what I meant by Bodiam and I even forgot about conwy - the castle town - a walled town on the mainland just opposite Llandudno and yes Caernarfon is yes an easy day trip by bus from Llududno - I agree Conwy itself is a sweet old town with castle and walls that anyone would love.

I from Llandudno - weirdly pronounced to me anyway with a clicking c sound at its start - took a train to Bangor then a bus to Caernarfon and then a bus to Mt Snowdon - all a very easy day trip from Conwy/Lladudno.

Janis thanks for the correction about Beaumaris - Bodium Castle of course being the gem in lovely Kent in the London area. Beaumaris is lovingly set right on the sea.

>>Bodium Castle of course being the gem in lovely Kent in the London area. <<

Bodiam Castle (note spelling) is actually in East Sussex, and it's a bit of a stretch to describe this as in the "London" area - it's almost 60 miles distant.

Well I meant it could be a day trip from London - Kent, Sussex for the average foreign traveler it's all the Garden of England and could care less technically if it's in East (or West) Sussex or Kent but I do appreciate your penchant for didacticism - as Brits would no doubt say "well done"!

>>weirdly pronounced to me anyway with a clicking c sound at its start <<

You must not have spent much time in Wales -- that clicking sound (not how I'd necessarily describe it but understand what you mean) -- EVERY Welsh place name or word that has that double LL has the same exact sound . . .

Too much choice, so here's some more....

If you're looking at a day trips from London, consider Arundel - small historic town dominated by a picture-perfect castle, alongside a beautiful river and set amongst the rolling green hills of the South Downs. It's about an hour and a half from London Victoria by train.

From there you could go to Chichester which is approx 20 minutes by train. It's a Georgian city with a cathedral and has plenty to keep you occupied for a few hours. Don't miss the "hidden" Bishop's Gardens and a walk around the city walls.

Whatever you choose to do, beware trying to cram too much in - we've all done it. Remember, it is supposed to be a holiday. And DO enjoy!

You must not have spent much time in Wales ->

I have spend a lot of time in Wales and do realize that that sound is endemic to the Welsh language - Llandudno was the first town I went to ever and yes way it was pronounced then took me by surprise - and yes the LL sound sounding like a clicking k or c still is weird to me. Not weird to you of course but to most Americans it would be.

http://www.westsussex.info/chichester-cross.shtml

the famous Chichester Cross is very famous too.

I did Arundel and Chichester as a day trip from London and like iberiophile also Chichester too - easily done by train.

W/ just 14 days you really don't have a lot of time for a big loop itinerary like PQ describes.>

that is janis' opinion reflecting her style of travel where she things if you can't say spent several days in a p;ace it ain't worth going to at all and that is fine for her and others who think the same.

I do not and in 14 days you certainly can do that loop I first presented - London - York 2 days
York to Edinburgh 4 days
Edinburgh to either Lake District or North Wales - 4 days
Then onto Bath - 2 days

leaves two more days - IMO that is not too rushed and you could spend another 2 days somewhere en route.

so you really do have the time to do the loop I describe - lots of time IMO but there is a different feeling that even that is too rushed and what is good for one is great - but believe me you DO have time to do that loop in a non-rushed fasion and IMO the first time traveler to Britain outside of London wants to see several famous places and not dwell in just a few places in depth.

It is up to you to decide but do not swallow the statement that you do not really have time to do that loop - you certainly do in a non-rushed fashion. And even time spend on the train can be nice - seeing the British countryside go by - the East Coast line from Newcastle to Edinburgh was voted by one British mag recently the most scenic rail line in the U K - though I do not agree with that it is very scenic as it skirts the coast much of the way - flying to Scotland one way means you miss seeing the scenery on either the East Coast or West Coast mainlines and each is different and shows you a different part of the UK. Or you can fly and see nothing.

>>that is janis' opinion reflecting her style of travel where she things if you can't say spent several days in a p;ace it ain't worth going to at all and that is fine for her and others who think the same.<<

How ridiculous. You have never traveled w/ me and have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about.

W/ just 14 days you really don't have a lot of time for a big loop itinerary like PQ describes.>

well my apologies for unfairly characterizing your travel style which yes I do not know but I based it on your comment that the loop I outlined was not possible - why does the OP not really have time to do that loop (described in detail in my post above yours) - why don't they have time to do that to me rather relaxed loop - where and why should they spend more time? Again to me I think it is a very reasonable loop - and the classic one I would recommend for a first-time traveler.

Why is it not possible in the time frame I propose and I am not saying that it can't be tweaked, etc.

And Bodiam Castle is in . . . Kent, southeast England.>

Gordon R - even the most expert IMO of all Fodorites on British travel can make the same mistake!

so shoot me - it is about 1/2 a mile from the county line . . . at least I knew it wasn't in Wales . . .

touche janis!

Cheers

And for those looking for the absolute castle of their dreams check out these images of Beaumarais (in Wales not Kent or East or South or North or West Sussex!)

https://www.google.com/search?q=beau...=1600&bih=1074

I have been gone from this post for a while because my son wasn't going to be able to travel with me. Well, he just informed me that he is able to travel after all but we will have fewer days on ground. I am thinking about taking a multi day escorted tour and a one day tour since our time is limited and we are not driving. This is what I have:
Day 1: Arrive in Glasgow early morn. Glasgow sightseeing on our own(or just walking around since we will be jetlagged.
Day 2-5: Go on escorted tour by Cie tours. 4 days.
http://www.cietours.com/us/escorted_...f_scotland_5d/
Day 6: Edinburgh on our own
Day 7: 1 day Rabbies or Timberbush tour.
Day 8: Train to Wales
Day 9-11: Wales
Day 12: Fly back to USA

My questions:
1. Thoughts on this trip?
2. Thoughts on the escorted tour by Cie Tours?
3. What would be a good Timberbush or Rabbies Tour?
4. How difficult will it be getting around Wales via public transportation? My son wants to visit Cardiff and the images of Beaumarais Castle that PalenQ pointed out are fantastic that we really want to go there. What might be other highlights in Wales that we can get to via public transit?

Thanks in advance for your help.

I'm not a fan of most tours, CIE included. I do like both Rabbies and Timberbush. The difference along with the corresponding advantages is that they are small group tours of 12/15 people compared to the larger CIE tours of some 30/40 people. Personally I'd do a 3/4 day tour with Rabbies or Timberbush and add another day in Edinburgh.

Cardiff has several castles that can be reached via public transportation... Cardiff Castle, Caerphilly Castle and Castle Coch. Beaumaris Castle is located on the Isle of Anglesey at the very opposite end of Wales. Also consider a visit to the National Museum Cardiff. There is enough to see/do in the Cardiff area to keep you busy for several days. While Beaumaris Castle is nice, I think Caerphilly along with Cardiff and Coch offer a better experience. Personally, I think Caerphilly Castle is more interesting than Beaumaris Castle

I agree 100% w/ historytraveler. Do one 3 or 4 day tour w/ Rabbies or Timberbudh and maybe another one day tour w/ either of them.

I'd hate HATE <B>HATE</B> a large group tour in Scotland - mostly because 1) the large coaches don't/can't go to the smaller scenic places, and 2) those big tours are often mostly old codgers and your son may feel out of place. On the small groups w/ Rabbies/Timberbush you see a wider range of ages -- from young back packers to 'old codgers'.

Thanks historytraveler and janisj. What you say makes sense. I do like the wider range of ages since I am a 55 year old mom (hopefully not quite at the 'old codgers' range yet) traveling with my 20 year old son. Appreciate the help.

Next question. Which Timberbush or Rabbies tours would you recommend (5 or 6 days) to get a good 'taste' of Scotland? I know we both love sight sighting, castles, small towns (local interaction and limited shopping. I am not much of a hiker but do enjoy leisurely 1-1.5 mile walks and I know my son would like to do at least one whiskey tour.

Once again, any help is greatly appreciated. everyone on this forum is always so knowledgeable.

Also, we would really like to go to the Military Tattoo. I know we could probably get better seats being part of a tour. Does anyone know of a good day tour that does that? I didn't see it on Rabbies or Timberbush websites.
Thanks.

>>I know we could probably get better seats being part of a tour.<<

Absolutely no reason to book a tour for the Tattoo. Just book your tickets as soon as your dates are certain.

Thanks janisj. I didn't realize how close the castle was to the city - looks like a 15 minute walk from my hotel. I will purchase Military Tattoo tickets hopefully by the end of the weekend.

>>I didn't realize how close the castle was to the city<<

The Castle is in the absolute <i>center</i> of the city :)

I am looking at taking one of these tours to Skye. I know its all personal preference, but I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on one over the other?

Rabbies 3 day Isle of Skye Tour:
http://www.rabbies.com/tours_scotlan...FYZcMgodW2gAoQ

Timberbush 3 day Isle of Skye tour:
http://www.timberbush-tours.co.uk/ou...nds-loch-ness/

Thanks.

Both are similar - but I'd probably go w/ the Rabbies tour. Getting a tour to Neist Point - just would never happen on a large coach.

http://www.glendaleskye.com/neistpoint.php

But have you considered this one from Edinburgh instead? It is a day longer and includes some terrific places you'd miss on the 3 day one. The main difference is on the 3 day trip you stay in Portree, and on the 4 day - in Plockton.

I personally think for what you want the variety of tours are better out of Edinburgh than out of Glasgow.

I'd maybe consider re-balancing your days and use Edinburgh as the tour base.