England or Spain
 

Hello all,
my wife and I have our European trip coming up in September and we’ve yet to decide we’re to go. Our options are England (focusing in London with trips to Oxford and Bath) or Spain (Madrid with trips to Toledo and Salamanca).

We we are in our mid twenties and speak both English and Spanish fluently so language in either country is no problem. Now this is our first trip to Europe and would like to explore more places but unfortunately we only have 11 days in total, which I imagine traveling will take up 2 days.

Our interests are as follows. I enjoy museums, history, and generally making new friends. My wife enjoys experiencing new food and culture. I imagine the weather is probably better in Spain during September but I actually enjoy cloudy rainy days (am I wrong thinking this is English weather?).

To to make things short we just want to have a fun time, make new friends, and soak in a new culture. What do you guys recommend? Which would you chose?

Thanks!

That is a tough question! :)

I love England and have been many times and never get tired of England. I love the history, culture, people, the beautiful countryside, the lovely quaint Cotswolds towns, etc.

I have never been to Spain but it is a country I plan to visit soon.

I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.

I agree with nanabee that either would be wonderful ... but if food is a priority, I'd easily give Spain the nod. For Spain, I think the combination of Madrid, Toledo, and Salamanca perfect for the time you have. :)

I have been to both several times. They could not be more different, but at the same time they both have fabulous museums, history, food, and culture. Making new friends isn't always easy in new surroundings, but I imagine your chances are equal in both places. If weather is an issue, then the balance could be tipped in favor of Spain, I suppose. I'd also give the edge to Spain with regard to food.

Keep reading and researching and with luck you'll find something about one place that makes it a bigger draw than the other.

London has AMAZING restaurants. The food in Spain is wonderful too of course, but don't let the naysayers convince you British food is 'pants' (look it up ;) )

>> I imagine the weather is probably better in Spain during September but I actually enjoy cloudy rainy days (am I wrong thinking this is English weather?). <<

Not necessarily. Early Sept can be really hot in parts of Spain. One can never generalize about British weather - it could be warm, cool, cold, clear, breezy, cloudy, rainy . . . and in 11 days you'll likely see all of the above.

The two could not be more different but both are terrific. Flip a coin and then plan on visiting the other one next year or in the future. . .

Two countries that represent two dissimilar things.

I'm British and so have a bias, but Spain is a fine place and the area around the capital is very nice and can be too hot for me in August but by September is beginning to cool down enough to be bearable. London weather is relatively dry compared to the rest of the UK but every day in the UK is a "weather adventure" though the BBC webpages are getting relatively accurate there is no way of knowing what will happen in September.

Spanish/British food; well neither really exist as both countries are big enough to have regional foods, both countries' foods have come a long way in the last 20 years and I've certainly had disgusting meals in Spain and similar in the UK in my youth. Now a-days you will eat well in both though I think that the Spanish still struggle with the term vegetarian.

Making friends in just a few days in busy capitals.... could do.

For me the big difference between the two is that one includes London which is one of the world's two A+ cities (the other is New York) it is way bigger than Madrid and houses the museums of the world's biggest empire nearly all of which are free. London also houses people from more than 185 countries and so it is a little bit of the world in Europe.

>> "I imagine the weather is probably better in Spain during September but I actually enjoy cloudy rainy days (am I wrong thinking this is English weather?)."

I am sitting here in the east of England watching the grass in my garden turn brown. It hasn't rained in at least three weeks, and the temperature in London is expected to reach about 30°C later this week. By September it will probably be pouring with rain.

A mere 86F, lol. Last week the temps here in North Carolina hit 99F (37C) and I was thinking (yet again) about moving back to the UK where it would be cooler. But I do have central AC.

I am a big fan of London, and not so much of Madrid, although I loved Salamanca (deserves more than a day trip). One problem I have with Spain is the daily schedule. Even in the north, in late autumn, everything shuts down in the afternoon, and dinner doesn't start until 10:00pm (although you can eat tapas instead). I am not sure either country is great for instant friendships with locals.

Last week the temperatures in Denver were in the high low 90s. It was dreadful.

Salamanca and Toledo are places shrouded with mystique and intrigue, at least in mi mind. That is a huge reason why I have them both on a possible itinerary.

I am leaning more towards England right now for numerous reasons. Thanks for the tips.

Thursdaysd, before I moved to the UK I lived in Texas, where 99F is about normal this time of year, but everyone stays near AC whenever possible. Last summer I stayed in a modern hotel near Twickenham Station that wasn't air-conditioned, and the heat in my 9th floor room was almost unbearable.

In NC we used not to hit the high 90s until July, but summer is starting earlier and lasting longer, and I am very tired of spending it indoors with the AC. But I do agree that Europe including England is ill-equipped for higher temps. I was in London in July a few years back when there was a heat wave and it was miserable. But short-lived. (I remember Germans arguing that you didn't need AC in Berlin, I didn't believe them and was very glad I hadn't.) I do think the humidity is worse here.

I wouldn't say that Salamanca was shrouded in mystique, but it does have worthwhile sights, see:

https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...ely-salamanca/
https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...rky-salamanca/

Actually I was reacting to "cloudy rainy days" being typical English weather. Right now I would welcome a good rainstorm to water my garden, but it doesn't look like we will have one for at least another week.

Madrid is fine, but there's only one London. You could easily spend your entire time in London and still leave with your list barely scratched.

But the virtue of London is that you can be pretty much anywhere in England, even southern Scotland, in just a few hours, while in Spain you'll be pretty limited to areas close enough to Madrid for easy access, like Salamanca or Toledo. In the same time it would take you to get to Salamanca from Madrid, in England you can be in Oxford, Cambridge, Brighton, even York. Just more options.

“Even in the north, in late autumn, everything shuts down in the afternoon, and dinner doesn't start until 10:00pm (although you can eat tapas instead). I am not sure either country is great for instant friendships with locals.”
Many stores close for a few hours in the afternoon but bars and outdoor cafes are generally open all day .We love the outdoor, late nighs lifestyle in Spain ,
( probably because it is so different than ours)
Almost everywhere one can have a formal ( sit down restaurant) dinner by 9:00.
We visited both country many times ; the Brits and Spaniards are
friendly and helpful although I would not expect “ instant friends “ anywhere.

Madrid is usually hot ( figh 80s) into October.

Incorrect
From Madrid (In less than an hour) one can reach : Toledo, Segovia, Escorial, Cuenca, Alcala de Henares ,Aranjuez.
in 1:40 minutes : Salamanca, Córdoba , Valencia and Zaragoza.

BMH, that's one of the things I enjoy most about Spain! IME, there's at least something to do mid-day, even for those of us who (like me) don't dine then; in contrast, I appreciate that things are open a bit later. But then, I don't usually eat until very late in the evening, even when not traveling.

As for days trips / nearby locations, I think the facts will support danon -- at least with today's high-speed rails, one's options within an hour or two of Madrid are extensive.

BTW, I think bilboburgler's warning to vegetarians may be worth noting: IME, it can be difficult to find strictly vegetarian dishes on Spanish menus, particularly if not at a tapas or pintxos bar. Another Fodorite once said that vegetables are (like chicken -- which is also infrequent on Spanish menus) considered too pedestrian for an occasion that would call for dining out. I don't know if that's true, but it could be a consideration....

After having visited both just recently I would pick Spain. Great food, and we seemed to have a better standard of accommodation than in England. Salamanca and Burgos are beautiful and so is Madrid, with my favourite place being Seville.
England is a beautiful country as well just expensive. Whatever you decide enjoy the planning.

Not necessarily. The big museums in London are free. You can eat cheaply if you try. Staying in B&Bs is more fun and a cheaper than hotels.Walking in the countryside is free and there are load and loads of places to do that. I will give you that trains are expensive, but even then booking well ahead will help.

>>England is a beautiful country as well just expensive.<<

Can be expensive of course (as can Spain), but not if one does adequate research re all the free stuff, reasonable to downright cheap quality accommodations, 2for1 schemes, etc etc.

9 days ain't much for Spain where main areas are a long haul apart. London would be neat but for 9 days but you may yes want to do day trips from London - easily done by train to likes of York (2 hrs), Bath (90 minutes) - two of Britain's most gorgeous and interesting cities - Salisbury (for a steak) and Stnehenge east to do in same day; Stratford-on-Avon and of course Oxford or Cambridge, etc. Trains are great and you can book long-distance trains like to York or Bath at big discounts at National Rail Enquiries - Official source for UK train times and timetables if book early enough to get the limited number of discounted tickets. Check www.seat61.com for oodles of advice on booking own discounted tickets and for general info on trains and where to go with them also BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

And yes like all big tourist cities London can be expensive but as others say it needn't not be necessarily. But don't neglect the Britain surrounding cosmopolitan London.

I vote for Spain by a hair. Here's my TR for London and Madrid. It was my 3rd visit to London but first to Madrid.

https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...ondon-1009205/

Enjoy!

Although, free museum/ gallery entrance is a huge bonus in England, I find in Madrid ( and especially in
smaller Spanish towns ) I get better hotels and eat much better for less than in London.

But for the first visit to Europe , London may be the place to visit because it is one of those
mayor cities in the world ....like Paris, Rome , New York ..

But as already discussed above, there are MANY interesting places within easy reach of Madrid, and FWIW, I would consider 9 days in that area ideal.

Spain by a country mile.

Spain: food, scenery, atmosphere, people.

England: none of the above.

9 days in Madrid? Of course could be neat but some don't think Madrid as let's say romantic as say Seville, Cordoba, Barcelona, etc. But easy to combine I guess in 9 days Madrid and Sevile and Cordoba. But granted any large European city could wondrusly occupy weeks. And September weather in Spain would be warm but at least not as cool as Britain can be.

Madrid for 4 days, Toledo for 2 days, Salamanca for 2 or 3 days. Or replace any one (or more) of those days to make time for Segovia or Avila or Cuenca....

I'm not saying whether the OP should go to Madrid or London -- either could be an excellent option! And I'm not saying the breakdown I just suggested would suit all travelers -- that depends on what the OP wants to see and experience. But I would at least like to see that the OP gets accurate information about the options.

>>Spain: food, scenery, atmosphere, people.

England: none of the above.<<

Simply ridiculous. England has ALL of those things in spades -- as does Spain of course. Both are lovely places to visit. But to generalize about England like that - one would have to have been terribly unlucky.

English cunryside wins hands down over typical Spanish desolate often cuntryside. OK food maybe but even that that England has no good food is idiotic - England folks you can actualy talk to - atmosphere too nebulous to consider.

PalenQ The train trip from Bilbao to Leon was pretty spectacular.

Try the train trip from Glasgow to Mallaig. Well, OK, Scotland, but that's still the UK.

“English cunryside wins hands down over typical Spanish desolate “

depends on what one prefers..

i find English countryside lovely but rather repetitive,
Spain has
mounties, beaches, olive trees, palms, the green North , and yes dry and desolate areas.

This is so subjective and prejuicial it's an interesting debate but no one more right than another. Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

>>i find English countryside lovely but rather repetitive,<<

Not repetitive if one gets out of the south/home counties.

I've had some delightful conversations with people in England and in Spain and, for that matter, every where I've traveled, and I've done that with barely a smattering of words other than English. And there are parts of the British Isles where accents are so heavy that I found it hard to carry on a conversation.

I'm not sure how gross oversimplifications or overgeneralizations help the OP....

one can offer only one’s impressions and ,of course , completely subjective.preference.

As I said, for the first time in Europe, London might be the place to visit .

For my personal preference, Spain has my heart.

Well a benefit to me at least having visited Spain maybe a dozen times and UK about 50 is that being a non-Spanish speaker In just casual conversation with folks you met in travels like in restaurants, stores, cabbies, on trains or folks in pubs, etc it's a bit nicer to speak the same language.

But like said some of those British dialects are often hard to understand at normal speed - like some folks on Coronation Streeet!

And also daily newspapers if old enough to still rad them. And TVs in hotel room- radios if driving, etc.

A bit easier all in all perhaps for first-time travelers who always seemed overly concerned about not speaking the language.

But having to exist in a foreing-language country has its merits too and escitement though dauntng to others.

I have no idea where you should go. But if I wanted to make a few friends, I would stay in hostels.

wow, no holding back then ;-)

Given the five languages of Spain and some very strong accents I suspect communication can be hard here too. In most tourist places you'll find English spoken.

Both interesting places, nice people, good food, you'll be fine wherever you stay, hostels is the place to stay if you want to meet people but you will also find B&Bs not bad, the worst solution is an international hotel.