England and Scotland 15-days in November Trip Planning
 

I will be able to take a 17-day trip over Thanksgiving. I have never been to the UK before (except transit through LHR) and am interested in London (3-4 days), York (1-2 days), Cambridge or Oxford day trip, Scotland (one week). Haven't bought any tickets yet, and my preference would be going early November and end the trip Thanksgiving weekend (November 24), since I will likely take another overseas trip Christmas-New Year week and don't want to take two trips too close together. However I would love to get a feel of some of the British holiday festivities and could possibly go a week and half later and end the trip first week of December. Would there be any Christmas decorations up by the first of December?

going by car or by train or bus or bike?

I have been in London several times before Christmas and have always found the Christmas decorations underwhelming - at least compared to U S cities.

The days will be short, but it is a great time to visit London. Christmas decorations can run from oddly garish to old fashioned/homey.

Edinburgh is far enough north that the days will be even shorter. But it is an amazing city. And York is perfect fora 2 day stop.

Cambridge and/or Oxford are day trips from London --not from York.

IMO - you might want add 2 or 3 days to London since you haven't been before, and to allow for the day trip(s). Edinburgh is probably my favorite city anywhere -but you don't need a week there.

By Early Dec, you may not want to tour around rural Scotland much (depending on the weather). Sunrise/Sunset will be approx 8:30AM and 3:30PM.

So - I'd consider 6 or 7 days in London, 2 in York, and the rest in Edinburgh w/ a day trip w/ Rabbies or Timberbush -- assuming they are running in Dec.

http://www.rabbies.com/
http://www.timberbush-tours.co.uk/

Will travel by public transportation only - bus and train.

Regarding one week in Scotland, I was thinking 2 days in Edinburgh, 2 day trips out of Edinburgh, and maybe 3 days up on the coast, but now it sounds even mid-November will be too late in the year to visit the islands...how about a Scottish Highlands guided tour instead?

Regarding adding more days to London, I live quite close to New York City and go there often, so I was thinking not going to a lot of museums but just focus on more of the historical/cultural aspects of London...or am I having the wrong impression between the two cities?

It looks like Rabbies and Timberbush have some tours that run year-round. Thanks for the links.

Rabbies and Timberbush are perfect for what you want to do. Both are long standing companies that do lots of tours from 1 day to 5 day-ers.

Much easier than trying to explore rural areas by public transport -- especially at that time of year.

For train schedules and fares and online discounted tickets check out www.nationalrail.co.uk and these fine sites IMO - www.seat61.com (a railpass could be a great deal if you want fully flexible travel - check out this site's commercial link to RailEurope for BritRail Pass prices) and www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. Trains are frequent - very frequent and IMO more comfy than buses and often on significantly faster, like going to Edinburgh.

I think exploring historical/cultural London is a great idea. It has tons of both.

Do visit the Museum of London, though, at the site of a Roman fort, for an historical overview.

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/caledoniansleeper/index.html

An option between London and Scotland is to take the Caledonian Sleeper trains one way - check site above for some really cheap fares - save sightseeing time by traveling at night and save on the cost of a hotel.

Thank you for all the great information. I just made the flight reservation, arriving LHR at 10AM on Day 1, departing LHR at 2PM on Day 18 (Thanksgiving weekend).
I plan to start from York (and leave London at the end), spend 2 days there. Then take the train up to Edinburgh and spend 2 days sightseeing in the city, then take Rabbies' tours: Isle of Skye 3-day tour, Stirling Castle and Loch Lomond National Park 1-day tour, St. Andrews and Fife 1-day tour.
Then take the Caledonia Sleeper train from Edinburgh to London. I plan to spend 4 days sightseeing in London, plus day tour to Cambridge.

Here are the questions:
1. It seems I can take self-guided tours of York and Cambridge, without having to join a guided group tour, even though I won't have a car, because the train stations are pretty close to the main tourist attractions in those areas. Correct?
2. I am really excited about taking the overnight Caledonia Sleeper train, but I will have to plan it so that I would not be taking the Caledonia Sleeper train on a Saturday night, as the website indicates that there is no sleeper train on Saturday nights. So, if I have to stay an extra day in Scotland to return to London on a Sunday instead, should I add another group tour (I'm interested in Rabbies' Alnwick Castle day tour), or try a self-guided 1-day tour of Glascow (and take the Caledonia Sleeper train from Glascow to London)? This will determine whether I buy the 3- or 4-day Britrail Flexpass.

Sorry, that is obviously a typo, Glasgow.

You are correct about train stations in York and Cambridge. They are within walking distance of sights.

I would do the Rabies tour to Alnwick. I think that is a pretty neat castle. But just my opinion.

Thanks for the Museum of London recommendation. I will put that on my list.
I had planned to visit Osterley Park, but its website shows that the house and garden is closed when I will be in London. Do you have suggestions for alternatives?

Hatfield House, a short train ride north of London could be a good substitute for Osterly - Hatfield is a very historic house and is also known for its Knot Garden and gardens in general - in a sleepy small village of the same name.

http://www.hatfield-house.co.uk/

Hatfield House looks beautiful on its website, but it says "The 2012 Visitor Season begins on Saturday 7 April until 30 September 2012", so it also won't be open when I will be there in November :(

I'd go to either Hampton Court Palace or Windsor for your day trip from London. Slight tip to HCP but either one would be easy and very worthwhile.

As for the Rabbies Alnwick tour --a definite <u>yes</u>if it is offered during your dates. Not only Alnwick castle -- but Melrose Abbey, Berwick on Tweed, and the coast along St Abbs head. A very nice day out.

I also love Hampton Court Palace as there is so so much to see and do there - not only the palace but a world-class art collection of the Queen - a maze - ornate formal gardens - a vast park and a sweet Thameside location - take a train right to a station right opposite the palace entrance and with a paper train ticket I think you get a 2 for 1 entry - saving perhaps more money than the train fare!

Will put Hampton Court Palace on my list. Thanks.

Check DICKEN'S LONDON. Several walking tours are offered and that might get you into the Christmas spirit. Relatives were also underwhelmed re. Christmas in London. Doubt that there are many restaurants opened for your Christmas goose. Might check into that too. Shows are probably on. And a Christmas Eve service would be a must to attend.
Have been in London over our Thanksgiving. Good time, less tourists.

You can take a boat one way to Hampton Court (or return but it makes a very long day) from either London or I believe Richmond and or Kingston - go up the Thames as Henry 8th and other royals once did by royal barge.

Not sure those boat services run in the winter.

and even if they do -- wouldn't make sense in late Nov/early Dec.

Naw I failed to note they were traveling late Nov - boats probably not even running - but if they are into hiking at all then they can do like I did once - walked along the north side of The Thames on footpaths the 3 or 4 miles to Hampton Court - nice riverside paths thru leafy areas and then the Hampton Court Great Park (or whatever its official name is!)

Trains go constantly to Kingston, a lively commercial regional shopping town. I walked it in early February.

It's getting close to the trip and I have more detailed questions.
I will be taking the Caledonian Sleeper from Edinburgh on a Friday night, scheduled to arrive at London Euston at 6:50 on Saturday. I already bought ticket for the 10:15 BBC Television Centre tour (near Wood Lane/Shepherds Bush station). My plan is to go from London Euston to my hotel in Pimlico (10-minute walk from Victoria or Pimlico station, if I don't get lost), check-in/drop off luggage, then go onto the BBC tour. But do you think I would be cutting it close time-wise and should just leave my luggage at the Euston station and go straight to Wood Lane/Shepherds Bush?

No - you should have plenty of time to make it to your hotel and back out to the BBC. Even time to check in and unpack if your room is ready. What I'd do is walk from Euston to Kings Cross and catch the Victoria tube line from there.

Where is the hotel exactly - along Belgrave Rd or ???

Along St. George's Drive.

The several times I have taken the Caledonia Sleepers they have been about spot on time - but of course something could always happen but they seem to run mainly on time or a few minutes late IME.

If the hotel is near the eastern (SE really) end of St Georges Drive - use Pimlico station. If at the western (north-ish) end, use Victoria. If smack dab in the middle - use Victoria.

I am scheduled to arrive at LHR at 10:00 on a Wednesday and will make my way to York via train on the same day. I know there might be flight delay, etc., but I want to buy the train ticket the day before, since the price to book the train ticket in advance is much cheaper than buying at the station. What would be a reasonable amount of time to allow for transfer between LHR arrival and King's Cross station, 4 hours? I will have check-in luggage.

The quickest way between Heathrow and Kings X probably is to hop the fast Heathrow Express that rolls nonstrop into Paddington Station, a short Tube or bus or taxi ride from Kings X, about two miles or so to the east.

Taking the Tube the whole way would take much longer but would also be cheaper.

Two points, one already mentioned by the knowledeable janisj:

1. it will be dark early, especially if you are from the midwest in the US and especially in Scotland. Edinburgh and Glasgow will be fine, but you may not see as much as you want on a trip to Skye.

2. I remember the station in Cambridge being a short bus ride from the town and university rather than a walk. It isn't all that far, but it isn't very interesting either, at least in my memory. The station in York is adjacent to the city, in Edinburgh and Glasgow in the center, and in Stirling not at all far from the sites.

Transport for London http://tinyurl.com/hwrk gives a journey time of

37mins LHR to Kings Cross taking the Heathrow Express and changing onto the Tube at Paddington or

about 60 mins taking the Tube all the way from LHR to Kings Cross (cheaper if you have time)

so with (lets say with no more than) 90 mins to clear immigration, plus your journey time, 4 hours should be fine to catch your train

I would not take the Heathrow EXpress unless you like burning money. Even though it is faster than taking the tube - it is very expensive and is not an easy transfer w/ luggage to the tube at Paddington. And if you opt for a cab from Paddingtion to Kings Cross instead . . . the journey jumps from merely expensive to VERY expensive.

4 hours should be more than adequate from arrival at LHR, via the tube to Kings X. If your flight is very late you could consider the HEX/cab - but if you land near on time just take the tube. Neither the HEX or tube needs to be decided/booked ahead.

(Just how much luggage are you talking about?)

Sorry I was not clear. The advanced booking train I was talking about is the King's Cross to York train, and I was wondering if I should make reservation for the 14:00 one, with LHR scheduled arrival at 10:00. Thank you all for the additional information about transport from LHR to King's Cross though (will take the tube).
Now a question about the Saturday markets in London. On one of the Saturdays, I plan to go to the BBC tour in the morning, followed by House of Parliament tour in early afternoon (tour ends around 14:30), and would like to go to either Brixton Market or Covent Garden Market afterwards. Would one be recommended over the other for Saturday afternoon after 15:00? I will likely go to both for the trip, but am just wondering which would be better for the Saturday afternoon itinerary.

Will the gardens at Regent's Park be worth visiting in late November? I saw it in an episode of "Rosemary and Thyme" and it looked beautiful.

IF I were to do a day trip to Dover, to see the castle and then take the ferry to Calais and back, I know the ferry ride itself takes 90 minutes, but how long it would be to go through immigration/customs?

Cambridge station is about a mile from the city centre. It's an easy walk cos it's all level and you are unlikely to get lost, but not a pretty one, cos it's along a busy road. You can take the bus which picks up right outside the station. (Don't get on the guided bus by mistake, because this goes out of town).

The colleges and backs are very attractive all year round (though summer is best, really), I love the Fitzwilliam museum, and you might even enjoy the botanic gardens if you get a nice sharp frosty morning. Good food market in the market square on a Saturday with fab cheeses, fresh juices etc etc. You might like The Chop House or Backstreet Bistro for lunch or dinner. I love the Black Cat cafe for coffee and cakes on Mill Road, but that is admittedly a good half hour walk from the city centre.

Too bad I won't be able to go to Cambridge on a Saturday (have to stay in London for pre-booked tours) for the food market. I love farmers markets.

Definitely go to Burough market - Thurs/Fri/Sat

http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/

Just got back from my trip. Scotland was beautiful, but I think we got a total of 6 hours of sun in the 7 days I was there. Really enjoyed the Caledonian Sleeper experience; it actually arrived in London half a hour early, so I had plenty of time to leave my bag at the hotel and go to the BBC tour. The Borough Market recommendation was spot on. I ended up going to Dover-Calais for a day trip and enjoyed it very much, and got another combo deal from the train company for the Hampton Court Palace trip too. Thank you everybody for the suggestions.

thanks for report - curious as to what kind of sleeping arrangement you had on Caledonian Sleeper and how much you paid for it. Thanks in advance! And any more details on that overnight train experience?