I very much agree that most school work can be easily made up, and at some grade levels a European trip would dovetail nicely with the curriculum. In my district, as I'm sure in many others, planning a "Europe trip" is a huge project at the junior high level, incorporating social studies, math and language arts. So how much better to actually be DOING the trip. <BR> <BR>One thing that no one's mentioned, though, is how extended absences might interfere with a child's social relations with friends at school. When my older daughter was in third grade, we took a trip to England that involved her missing about three days of school. In that time, the other girls had formed a "club," and she had to perform certain feats if she wanted to be admitted. They kept piling on new requirements, and I'm not sure she EVER managed to be a full club member that year! <BR> <BR>While I am in no way suggesting that this experience did her any permanent harm--she is today a very well-adjusted sophomore in college with lots of friends and an abiding interest in the world--it IS true that she still talks about it. So maybe if your children are starting at a new school this year, THEY might have opinions about missing a big chunk of time right at the beginning.

Last year in October, we took our two kids (a 6th grader and an 8th grader about to graduate middle school) with us to Rome and stayed in the now forum-famous Dr. Abate's rental- a 17th century merchants palazzo. My daughters 6th grade core instructor understood and asked that my daughter keep a diary and turn it in for credit. Photos, etc. My daughter is an A student who does math at the high school level. No problem. My son, a b-student except for his struggle with math was allowed to go but had to take with him all of his school books and had the daily assignments written out for him to do as many as he could ahead of time and then we Xeroxed the literature and took half or so with us. He studied daily (with jet lag it was no problem). He turned out to be my husbands nightly hiking companion...taking moonlight photos of all the monuments and walking all over Rome from end to end, even after the girls were tuckered out. On his return stateside, he still barely passes math, even after completing his assignments but with much pressure from both parents, he graduated. He will, however, have the trip to Rome forever. And the deside to travel is implanted.....Both kids want us to take them to France or to see the pyramids.....The answer is to work with the school and take the kids. Depending on what their grades are like, going down a grade is no big deal in early years....I wouldn't say that in High School. They will learn much more about life than any schoolmaster could possibly jealously begrudge. Oh yeah....my daughter only got lost at LAX but we found her! (She was behind another blonde lady with a samsonite.....)

Basing my response solely on your email address, which may very well be made-up (like mine), I would guess you are a highly educated person with a good job in the sciences at a college or university. You and your wife sound like conscientious parents. Your kids are straight A students. Whatever you are doing is working so far and will continue to work no matter how you spend your vacation. But, to go against the grain of this thread a little, I have to say: why take your kids out of any time at school if it's not necessary? If you can work out your vacation time (looks like you might be a professor, thus have real flexibility and a school-oriented schedule to begin with) and the finances (I realize these places will cost less in off-peak season), why not let your kids get a complete school education, teach them the importance of fulfilling commitments/obligations, AND expose them to the wonders of travel, during their vacation time when their schoolwork won't be disrupted? I fully agree that if you have to take them out of school to show them Europe you should, but if it's at all possible not to, then why? I'm worried that if you turn the trip into Europe 101 they could be turned off, and if you just have fun they'll get the message that school is not so important, and that it's okay to skip it now and again for a change of scenery.

Just a (hopefully brief) blurb about OBLIGATION. I didn't mention it earlier in the interest of brevity but it really applies her, I think. My daughter, the 6th grader, new to middle school joined and was accepted in the A-Guard (experienced) Color Guard that marches with the school band. Ours is a small town and the band here wins top honors all the time in Parades. It is veryimportant to the school and to the town. Because we were planning on the trip to Rome, I ame it contingent upon the band instructor's approval that my daughter could miss several key practice sessions after she had just learned the routine. He said OK but was a bit tense about it. My daughter practiced over and over in the lining room of that Palazzo with an umbrella as her "flag" and pillows tossed as though they were her saber. When she returned to our dinky town, she knew her routine better than some of thekids along side her in the parades. The instructor was thrilled! Kinda makes me weepy. If your kids have drive and gumption....take them with you....you can have your pie and eat it too. Dont feel guilty. Bring your kids up to lead and not follow all the time. -Cher

I'm a high school teacher and I say take the kids for the 3 weeks! (that's only 15 school days) Talk to the teachers well ahead of time. Bring homework, books and have them work on it during "down time" -- like on the plane. <BR> <BR>I had a student this year who went to Russia for 3 weeks. He met with me during an activity period for several weeks prior to his trip and when he returned. He made up all the work and had a wonderful experience as well. <BR> <BR>This will be a family experience your children will never forget. <BR> <BR>Let us know what happens!

Okay, I'll be direct and to the point. I'm not a teacher, and I'm not a parent. Your time on this earth is too short and too precious to worry about classmates and teachers suffering because of your kids being out of school. Three weeks out of sixteen plus years of education is NOTHING to worry about. Get a handle on the BIGGER picture. Leave your wife at home if she is going to be a poopy companion.

I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't think travel was wonderful, important, educational, etc. But just for the sake of a little balance, let me make this observation: <BR> <BR>I think you all should take the trip, definitely. BUT -- the fact that your wife is raising the question as seriously as she is will send an important signal to the kids, that school is important and being there when you are supposed to be is also important. <BR> <BR>I really hope you will be able to keep the argument away from school VERSUS travel. They are both great, but school is their "job" at this point in their life, and travel that interrupts it should be infrequent and VERY special. -- Which this trip sounds like it will be. <BR> <BR>When I was 13, my father was diagnosed with a fatal illness, and he decided to pull the entire family out of school for 2 weeks to travel to Central America (a dream of his). Those of us old enough to have homework brought a few assignments along, but we weren't a traveling school by any means. It really was a trip of a life-time, literally for my father. It was clear that he valued school education and it was clear that he valued travel experience. <BR> <BR>Nowadays, everyone seems to have a lot of money to travel, and it seems to me a lot of my children's wealthier friends routinely miss a couple of weeks of school to ski or beach or whatever each year. This can send a terrible message to them about the value of school, and schools nowadays have so many strikes against them that education seems to have about the last place in everyone's mind. <BR> <BR>I'm NOT saying you don't learn a lot traveling as a kid. I think the broadened horizons and cross-cultural experiences are invaluable. But I think you should support your wife's perspect NOT by cancelling the trip but by saying, "your mom is right that school is very important. We're going on the trip, but we BOTH think school is important and not something you opt out of, just because something fun comes along." <BR>

Anne, I appreciated your reply. Would you scroll up to see my earlier post, and tell me what you think of a school that drops kids one full grade for more than 7 absences in a quarter, even if they are on an educational trip? What is your school's policy? Thanks.

I won't jump in again unless asked but one other thing came to mind on this very important topic. When my daughter first began in middle school, they put her in the GATE program (honors). Hre core instructor asked the students if anyone had been anywhere recently and if they would like to give their new classmates a report on their recent travels. (Terrific teacher...) My daughter spoke on Washington DC for over a hlaf hour. The teacher went scurrying around the campus pulling other instructors over to hear what my daughter was saying about what is out each side window of the Washington Monument, what's going on at Georgetown University, the Pentagon, etc. I wasn't aware she had soaked up all that we were saying. The learning is going on during our travels without us all making it sould like a university on wheels. Ditto for our trip with them abroad...my son still corrects me when I describe the "draped" effect of the marble on the Vatican tomb of one of the Popes. (My son, fortunately, remembers whose tomb is was..... and the important artist who exectued this technique to perfection) -Cher

AJ -- I teach in a small (750 kids K-12) district in upstate NY. We have no attendance policy per se. It seems pretty harsh to me that your district's policy is so cut and dry. It's one thing being on an educational/cultural trip with parents and keeping up with schoolwork -- as opposed to the kid who stays home day after day to watch Jerry Springer and other mindless junk. Do both cases receive the same penalty? <BR> <BR>I think the key to this dilemma is enlisting the support of the teachers ahead of time.

Exactly how do you suppose a school district could implement rules that have exceptions (e.g. 7 absences are o.k. for a trip to Europe but not for a trip to Disneyworld or to visit an ailing relative, etc.)? Seems to me that implementation of that type of policy would open a can of worms, therefore, there is a strict absence policy. Personally, I believe travel is a wonderful experience, however, you have the entire summer break, not to mention spring break, Christmas break, etc. to travel. Why risk teaching your children that school is not that important when you could travel at other times of the year and not take them out of school?

Thank you all so much for all your help and support. My 14 year old daughters "Back to School Night" was last night, and most of her teachers were very positive about it. Two of her (seven) teachers have been to, lived in, or went to school in, France. Only her French teacher was VERY positive (as he has been for the last year and eight months). Most declined to let her do a report/diary of our trip for credit/extra credit, and said only that, "...she will have to make it up and/or take it with her." {GULP} Some were just outright (and some openly admitted it)...jelous! "My 10 year old son's "Back to School Night" is tonight and I am hoping for more luck with the report/diary. <BR> <BR> <BR>Thanks again (and keep 'em coming), <BR>Mr. "C"

Some of you have already helped me A LOT in the past, know me, and have already recieved the following e-mail. I post it here for 'Rachel' and for whomever 'Just my two cents', is (that posted above). I do, still, respect your opinions...but, maybe this will shed some light on your misconception(s):: <BR> <BR> <BR>My family and I (the four of us--total) are traveling to the Paris/Normandy area of France for @ one week and then heading to Florence and Rome, for a week, by train. We will be flying <BR>'standby' (which REALLY complicates things/planning) at the end of (this) summer/early fall, 1999. I traded <BR>my motorcycle for the airline tickets. The reasons we are going on this trip, are very special to me. {We are <BR>far from wealthy. I work in a machine shop.} <BR> <BR> My father landed on Utah Beach on D-Day, and he so much wanted to go back and see, "...a beautiful and <BR>free Europe, as it MUST have been before the war," he said. He could never <BR>afford it. He provided for his wife and five children. He was an unselfish and caring Father. He has passed <BR>away now (7 years ago). I always wanted to take him, to be with him, to hear his memories. I could not seem to afford it either. Now, I will go and be his eyes. I know he will be with me...always. <BR> <BR>Also, my daughter is in her third year of French, has won "Best Foreign Language Student Awards" in her school, and is an excellant student. It is to reward her, too. A (Fodors Travel Forum--website) 'poster' recently <BR>told me, "...you cannot go to Paris without eating and sleeping in reputable, classy places! You will miss the whole point!" My reply was, "Sir, I will be fine...and happy! I go for my Father and for my children (and their educations and dreams). That is all I need! Even if I have to sleep on park benches, it will be O.K.. <BR> <BR>Sincerely, <BR>Mr. "C" <BR> <BR>P.S. I have been working two jobs/15 hours a day, since July, to help pay for this (costly) trip. My dream <BR>is about to come true and I am Very tired but, I am happy. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Dave- <BR>First: I hope you have a *fabulous* trip. <BR>Second: I'm sorry that the assumptions people made put you in the position of feeling you needed to post as you did. It made me stop and think about the times I have done the same. <BR>Godspeed! <BR>Sally

Thanks Sally, <BR> <BR>Your a sweetheart. I just wanted people to know that that is why we have to go in the off season. With standby airfare, you don't just get on a plane when everyone else does. That is the other reason I needed three weeks for Europe...we can/could/probably will get 'bumped' for several hours, if not days. Especially when trying to leave Rome, I am told. <BR> <BR>Mr. "C"

Have a great trip. I always feel(along with Rick Steves) that it is a lot more fun to stay in inexpensive places as most Europeans do.You will learn more about the country and be closer to the culture. My children, now in their twenties, and I regret that we didn't go to Europe when they were teens. They always seemed so busy with band, sports, etc.Now we wish we had traveled more when they were teens. By the way I am a teacher,too.

I too feel bad if my post or anyone else's made you feel compelled to share anything you would rather have kept private. That is the problem with these "conversations"-it's hard to know the big picture and sometimes an aspect of the issue seems relevant, when in reality it's not. Like some of the other posters, I think school is a kid's job and attendance should be taken seriously (although I never said anything about it being a burden on the teacher or other kids if a child misses school-I think Distaff said it best). However, as I posted before, I fully support taking a child out of school to travel if that's the only way it can be done. And I would say, if it's not annoying for her, your daughter should still make up one of those diaries regardless of what her (apparently narrow-minded) teachers say! It sounds like a wonderful souvenir as well as a way to focus on what she's seeing and learning (don't know why a teacher wouldn't want to encourage such a thing). I'd bet anything she'll treasure it when she's your age.

Dave, I am truly humbled by your dedication to provide this trip for your family. I, too, was a 3 year French student 30 years ago. My dream was to be a foreign exchange student because I knew my family could never afford a vacation to France with 7 children!! That dream did not materialize and I did not make it to France until I was 37 years old!! I vote along with the other people that say talk to the teachers and your wife to make the trip an unforgetable experience. It is profoundly moving to me that you are also paying homage to your father's memory. What could be more rewarding to your children's education than to show them where their grandfather fought during WWII? I guarantee it will be an experience they will carry with them all their lives. I hope you have a wonderful trip.

You go Dave! My oldest niece got to go to London, Amsterdam, and Paris for 3 weeks with her wealthy grandmother at the age of 11. The other niece went 2 years later to Italy for 3 weeks. Both girls were given their school work to complete before they ever left. You better believe they had it done! They didn't miss a thing by being gone. The fact that you are working hard for this trip is a very valuable lesson for your kids as it is. That we can obtain our goals with hard work and dedication. Go and have a great time. Perhaps your wife is overly concerned about the uncertaintly of straying from routine. i'm sure she will learn some things from your trip too. Have a wonderful time, you'll never forget it and you deserve it.

Dear Mr. C: <BR>Your Post brought tears to my eyes. My kids always get on my case whenever something touches me that way. (I get smarmy at the thought of the Firefall!) But really moving is the way we all feel that what really matters in life is the way in which we all share and create memories between generations. Thats what its really about...sharing what we see with our kids...not just being there. (Being There...Peter Sellers, right?) Have a great trip. -The Other Mr & Mrs. C