Ditto november_moon and hetismij.

I love Holland. I don't do weed. The Dutch had done the rational thing with mary jane, legalized it. Forcing it into the back alleys again will have the same effect as Prohibition had in the US. It just makes criminals out of half of the population and gives rise to the murdering gangs who supply the stuff. Stupid stupid stupid.

France and Germany should legalize pot and cure their own problem, not bully Holland to try to do it for them. It won't work anyway and will just drain the law enforcement capabilities of the Dutch. For example, we have a massive and growing gang problem at the Mexican/USA border which puts local citizens at risk for their lives. Don't the politicians read the newspapers?

Beer and wine have been accepted for millennia. Even Jesus made wine. If you don't like alcohol don't drink it. Don't try that Prohibition thing again.

ive been going to dam for years just for the coffe shops no point going there other wise just aswell go to pourtigal you can score weed and the weather and beaches ar much better hope this dosent happen or the dutch dont enforce the law

@spaarne: "It just makes criminals out of half of the population and gives rise to the murdering gangs who supply the stuff.". I guess that would be your half? :-D (just kidding).

I live in a vinex location where for some years a coffeeshop was located, just a couple of streets away. We've seen a significant increase in burglary, car theft and small crime during that time. Not to mention the number of half-stoned noisy "kids" (most of them are less than 18 years old!) that seemed to have taken over the parks and generally where misbehaving in spots where little children would've liked to play.

The coffeeshop has closed almost two years ago now and crime rates in the neighborhood have dropped significantly since then. Those pesky 18-year olds on their scooters are no longer hanging around here and kids can once again enjoy the playgrounds.

"The rational thing"? No, it was a typical Dutch solution to a problem: "we don't legalize it, but we tolerate it because we're too afraid someone might not like us if we don't".

Actually, the problem with NL's neighbors has little to do with the old-fashioned coffee shops in Amsterdam and the occasional twen traveling from Paris or Berlin to A'dam to smoke some dope around Leidseplein.

The real problem are the coffee shops right after the border, where Dutch communities like small town Venlo actually supported the of "McDope" coffee shops with easily parking lots and in 10 min walking distance to next train station in Germany. The dope cafes in Venlo alone were expected to generate 23 million euro revenues p.a., and the respective tax income for the local community.

Yet, it would be too easy to blame the border communities, as the establishment of border coffee shops was their (probably only) way to cope with massive traffic problems and far more drug consumption in the town centers as in comparable small towns further away from the border.


Maybe we should take the Dutch system as an example and limit access to Oktoberfest or beer gardens to those with residence in Bavaria.
But the people down here are probably not uptight enough to be such spoil sports, and gladly take the thousands of gallons of beer our American friends dump either way each night on the sidewalks and gardens in return for a little money (or, in fact, a lot of money).

Maybe people should just stop doing drugs, and find other ways to deal with their psychological problems. But I suppose that isn't likely to happen any time soon; there will always be a minority of the population that is addicted to something.

I would say that the majority of the population is addicted to something - either nicotine or tranquilizers, big macs or booze, dope or ecstasy.
Some addictions are just easier to hide, or are more accepted, or come with a prescription.
Personally, I find enough pleasure in what is legal and does not need a trip to the pharmacy. The three joints I smoked in my life were less than impressive to make a habit.

The studies I've seen indicate that only about 10% of the population has a permanent problem with addiction. This minority will always be addicted to something: if it's not drugs, it's religion, or sports, or TV, or Facebook, or whatever, but it's always something.

The rest of the population does not have addictive personalities, so they can take or leave these things.

Some people smoke a cigarette once a month or so, and can easily stop entirely if they so desire or if it becomes necessary. Others can't go for more than an hour without a cigarette; they are addicted.

It's the ones who are addicted who cause all the trouble. Addicts tend to be losers in more ways than one, so I can sympathize with people in the Netherlands who would like to be rid of them.

I find it really funny there are so many people on here referring to pot smokers as "addicts." Like it's any different than drinking wine in Italy. Come on people.

Drinking wine regularly can be an addiction, too. Using drugs on a regular basis is usually a bad sign, no matter what type of drug is involved (pot, alcohol, tobacco).

One difference, though, is that people who use drugs illegally demonstrate their disdain for the law, and this disdain often extends into other domains, so dopers who use illegal drugs are often marginal in their honesty and willingness to abide by the law in a general sense. This also applies (to a slightly lesser extent) to people who are so addicted to alcohol or tobacco that they will use it even when it is illegal (open containers, no-smoking areas, etc.).

Such a santimonious fellow this Anthony - I have smoked pot all my adult life and will put my law-abiding in other realms up to yours - indeed I believe I probably respect the law more than you as I have never willingly broken any law.

Did you have a grandparent who drank during Prohibition - would you say the same of them?

anyway your extrapolations about pot smokers and law braking just defies reality - well I guess everyone cannot be the perfect person you are - yup they did indeed break the mold when they made you, thank God!

Where do you live? Marijuana is illegal in many jurisdictions (possession and/or use and/or dealing), so unless it's entirely legal where you live, you've already willingly broken the law.

None of my grandparents drank alcohol (the family in general is non-drinking), so Prohibition was never a problem.

I don't worry about criticism from drug users. At the end of the day, they are the ones who are slaves to substance abuse, not me. I have enough problems to worry about without being unable to get through the day without drugs.

I've always considered the large amount of alleged drug use in Amsterdam to be one good reason <i>not</i> to visit the city. Perhaps if the number of drug-using tourists declines, greater numbers of drug-free tourists will replace them.

I find the number of people either addicted or very liberal in their use of pharmaceuticals more frightening than the occasional pot user (emphasis on "occasional"!).
When I first got to Fodors I was quite stunned that potent benzodiazepines are seen as something as normal as aspirin for enduring transatlantic flights et al.
Even more astonishing has been to see those pill-popping mommies worry about their 16yo "kids" being served wine in Italy.
If I lived in a society that has a massive problem with prescription drugs (i.e. not illegal drug use, thanks to helpful doctors), I would get my priorities straight and not worry about the two handful of people who go to AMS to smoke a joint.

The guy who grew more marijuana and distilled more whiskey

Than ANYONE else B4 the revolutionary war in the US

currently has his picture on Our $1 bill

he said he just grew it for hemp and like Clinton never inhaled.

Amsterdam has been going downhill ever since eaglebill.com passed on.

The latest news from Holland, for those of you who are interested, is that the law restricting drug-use to dutch citizens only, has been accepted by the dutch government last May. Right now there are a couple of lawsuits from coffeshops against the government, that will decide whether or not this change in law excluding non-Dutch is actually tenable. verdicts are expected somewhere in July/August.

One difference, though, is that people who use drugs illegally demonstrate their disdain for the law, and this disdain often extends into other domains, so dopers who use illegal drugs are often marginal in their honesty and willingness to abide by the law in a general sense>

Well I guess you would say the same about say Rosa Parks? And the founding Fathers - George W, Jeff, Franklin, etc who blatantly showed their disdain for the law of the land of the time by none the less that being traitors, etc.

Well add me to the likes of Rosa Parks, the Founding Fathers, etc all of whom you obviously would find to be less law-abiding than thou.

Well you certainly would have made a great Nazi.

Seig Heil Anthony and you condemnation of one just because they chose to violated a law they simply seem unjust.

If Anthony and his ilk had their way we would still be British subjects and Black Americans would still be riding at the back of the bus!

I'm afraid I can't quite put the abusers of illegal drugs in the same category as Rosa Parks or the Founding Fathers, and I find the comparison to Nazis or racists so extreme as to be amusing. Talk about hyperbole!

Experience has taught me that people who break the law in order to take drugs are far, far more likely to be breaking other laws as well, and their general level of ethics is significantly lower than average. This is one reason why I avoid people who do drugs.

Even people who are heavy users of legal drugs can be a problem. Often a large part of their lives revolves around drinking binges (if it's alcohol) or they need to smoke constantly and will reject any part of life that requires them to stop for more than an hour or two (if it's tobacco). I can live without those kinds of issues.

Substance abuse is a mental illness, and while it's not quite as extreme as, say, schizophrenia, it's still something that can potentially complicate relationships. And often the relationship isn't worth it.

If someone goes to Amsterdam for drugs, or even talks about it a lot, I make a mental note to keep my distance.

Well I will also keep my distance from such a misinformed person on cannabis - like Paul McCartney says one of the most misunderstood substances - folks like you who believe hysterical reports and thus leap to such ridiculous conclusions.

Indeed my friend I could make a case that if you are around cannabis users you may be safer than being around folks who do not use.

You Anthony stand as a testament to total ignorance about cannabis - save that it is illegal in some states - in mine it is legal for medical marijuana purposes and I am a registered card-carrying medical pot user - now that makes me legal so I guess then I pass muster with you and your ilk?

BTW if you surround yourself only with folks who have never smoked pot in their lives in my community at least you would have very few cohorts - you would be shocked at how many of your friends, customers, bosses, medical providers, etc that have indeed had normal youthful lives and yes smoked pot and may well still do. I know very successful lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc that folks who did not know them really well would never guess they regularly smoke pot.

Indeed Robert Anton Wilson points out that he and other prominent writers smoke pot all the time and their output is astounding - like he said in a High Times interview let's see if I did not smoke pot I may have authored 65 books instead of just 32 - 32 acclaimed books.

I feel sorry for the Anthony's of the world and their myopic simply ignorant view of the demon weed marijuana - I think they think Reefer Madness was a documentary movie!

I've always considered the large amount of alleged drug use in Amsterdam to be one good reason not to visit the city>

well since the Dutch use of marijuana is lower per capita than in the U.S. I guess you will not feel comfortable visiting any American city - or French either as the French, especially younger folk, smoke more pot per capita than the Dutch by about twice 0 so the irony is where it is legal or legal for all practical purposes folks smoke less than in countries like the U S or France where it is illegal.

so again Anthony you just have really poor information, at least about Amsterdam and everyone there smoking pot - not surprising in light of the many other simply uninformed statements you've been making. I guess not toking don't always mean a clear head?

"I don't worry about criticism from drug users. At the end of the day, they are the ones who are slaves to substance abuse, not me. I have enough problems to worry about without being unable to get through the day without drugs."

I think you have confused drug use with drug abuse. Many people use drugs without being "slaves to substance abuse" or "unable to get through the day without drugs."

I drink caffinated coffee and tea occasionally - I don't have to have it to get through my day and most days I don't eat or drink anything with caffiene in it, but sometimes a little caffiene jolt is nice. This is occasional drug use - not addiction.

Last night I had 2 beers - one with dinner and one after dinner while reading. I even got a little buzz. Most days I don't have anything alcoholic and very rarely drink anything stronger than beer or wine. Again, this is occasional drug use, not addiction.

There are plenty of people who smoke pot occasionally as well - they use the drug, but do not abuse it. Same with many prescription medications. Drug abuse is when the use negatively impacts one's life and/or when one is addicted to the drug.

Anthony would not be caught dead with the likes of Willie Nelson, Louis Armstrong, Carl Sagan, Robert Anton Wilson and other luminaries who in their own words or words of close friends smoked pot daily all their adult life. Poor Anthony - hanging around with only people EXACTLY like himself!