Just saw this post now that its back up top. <BR>My opinion on places *not yet mentioned* for dullness would be; Nice and Dijon in France, Frankfurt, Lubijana.....and Munich <BR>(but maybe I hate that last one since I end up having to return there so often). I admit I also am no fan of Milan and (gasp) Florence. As for Pisa (everyones favorite whipping boy in this thread), I went there many years ago and saw the tower and the church and left, never to return. It was fine for a few hour visit. <BR>

....forgot a few. Also I am or have been quite bored of Zurich, Geneva and Madrid. <BR>

I think this is an interesting thread.

With all due respect to Montanans, I think the dullest place I've ever been was Butte. That was back when I was a kid - maybe it has changed. <BR>

Being somewhat of an intermediate traveller, and being fortunate enough to have friends world wide (when else would I have done some of the stranger things I did in my travels!) - but I have to put in my vote for my most disappointing city - Amsterdam. <BR> <BR> God, was I ever disappointed - I couldn't WAIT to get out of the city. From being chased by men near the red light district to seeing junkies and slackjawed kids my age was really disappointing. Not only that, the Stedlijk museum was under partial reconstruction, and the line at the Rembrandt museum was far too long. <BR> <BR>The only other place I can say I was a bit disappointed by was Padua/Padova - we were there only for a day, saw the cathedrals, walked around the university, and ate the only semi bad meal we had in Italy. It was pretty boring all in all, I thought. Then we rushed back to our hotel in Bassano del Grappa (a wonderful little town an hour away from Venice - I'd recommend staying there any time!) <BR> <BR>Interesting that so many people didn't like Pisa, I'm not surprised as our Italian friends avoid heading there at all costs.

Anyone had a good time in Trieste, Italy, or Sofia, Bulgaria? They get my vote as being way up there on most boring places. I liked Pisa as a day trip of several areas. The Cathedral, Baptistry and Camposanto were very interesting and the Tower was certainly worth seeing. I echo something i previously saw in that it was the one place that my kids were eager to see in Italy and they really liked it.

In defense of Amsterdam - and yes I admit it was just a city where our plane came in and out of - I found the Rijksmuseum to be great. The Van Gogh museum was close, so their the Rijks' exhibit was all Van Gogh. I was amazing. <BR> <BR>On another note, I loved the Heineken Brewery. The tour was all PR fluff, but the beer afterwards was wonderful and fresh. And it was fun to talk to everyone from all places of the world.

In defense of Amsterdam - and yes I admit it was just a city where our plane came in and out of - I found the Rijksmuseum to be great. The Van Gogh museum was close, so their the Rijks' exhibit was all Van Gogh. I was amazing. <BR> <BR>On another note, I loved the Heineken Brewery. The tour was all PR fluff, but the beer afterwards was wonderful and fresh. And it was fun to talk to everyone from all places of the world.

I have noticed a bit of a consistent thread in these postings. In a lot of cases it is the tourists that make a site dull or disappointing. It seems in the case of the Mona Lisa with hordes of people surrounding it, or Pisa with hordes of tour bus tourists trying to hold the tower up, that the crowd is what spoils the event. In my case, that was definitely the case when I went to the changing of the guard at Buckingham palace. I would never go again, or recommend it. It may have been wonderful, but I have no idea. I couldn't see a thing. <BR> <BR>Its really difficult to feel a sense of wonder, or discovery, when there are hundred of others pushing or flashing their cameras in front of you.

I think alot depends on the expectations people have before they visit the city. Resarch helps avoiding disappointments and planning alternatives. My favorite place was Murren Switzerland, but on our first full day it rained, we got lost hiking and by the end of the day we were exhausted. But we had a great time!!! There is so much out there to observe and learn and be apart of the world. I have been frustrated with locations (florence, Italy is not my favorite) but I cannot say any of it was ever dull! I have talked to friends and relatives who came back from fabulous places and told me they were disappointed. If you listen, it was mostly bad planning, not enough time or too much time or a bad attitude. I agree places are less enjoyable than others but we try to avoid those with the help of Rick Steves and this wonderful resouce of the European Forum.

While I still consider Rick Steves my travel guru, I've been disappointed by him a few times. The first was Colmar. True, the Issenheim Altarpiece is an incredible work, but the rest of the museum is fairly redundant if you're seeing all the major art galleries in Europe. And the quaint old buildings are no biggy if you also plan to do the Romantic Road in Germany. Not to mention that it was very cold and the cafes were not happy to serve coffee to two freezing girls just trying to warm up. For an afternoon, fine, but two days? Forget it. <BR> <BR>Was also extremely disappointed by Paris, but that might have been my frame of mind at the time more than anything. The little archeological site under the square in front of Notre Dame? Skip it. I still think Paris is over-rated but intend to give it another chance one day in the future. <BR> <BR>Rick Steves IS right about leaving Greece out of a whirlwind European itinerary. I wish I'd paid attention. It really does take two days to get from Rome to Athens via ferry and train, and Athens is over-rated and crowded. Next time I go to Greece I'm FLYING. <BR> <BR>On the other hand, I find I'm not being discouraged by some of the postings here. Pisa is fine for an afternoon stop. And I still want to see "The Last Supper." Its damage is part of its history, and mostly da Vinci's fault, since he painted it in a combination of tempera and oil paints. Didn't anyone tell him oil and water don't mix?

Liechenstein,hands down. Unless you collect stamps or coutries, don't bother. <BR> <BR>Fortunately the next bus out is close at hand. <BR> <BR>Ed

Let me offer my comment on Pisa, having been there last Sunday. My reaction was, god, this looks awful. I was there in 1985, pre-cable, pre-weights on the uphill side, pre-fence, and I got to go up in the tower. I was disappointed for my son, who had wanted to see THE LEANING TOWER OF PISA. He's 10, and bless his heart, that was at the top of his list. He, however, was not disappointed. We went on a Sunday so as to maximize our days in Florence, but it certainly minimized our day in Pisa. <BR>Gregoire, if you're still reading, I just roared with laughter at your jokes about Dallas. Call me irreverent (on the JFK part) but I live in Austin and I am no fan of big D.

I don't know if I'm the only one to feel this way but I was sort of disappointed with Florence. Sure, if you love Renaissance art then that's the place to go, but I don't think all the millions of tourists are really looking for that. As a city I didn't find it that special at all. Well, the Duomo is impressive and you can get some great views on and from the Ponte Vecchio but the streets are a bit dull. The worst thing is that at least in summer it's awfully crowded. IMO there are many cities in Italy that are just as beautiful (if not more) but without the bus loads of tourists.

But Palmer, Massachusetts, isn't supposed to be interesting. Pisa is (or was). This is a great thread. <BR>

Absolutely, without a doubt -The tour of Tower Bridge in London, an entire hour of learning the mechanics of how the bridge works. Although, we did get some great pictures from the walkway above the bridge.

Actually Kendra, I found the Tower Bridge experience to be fascinating and very enjoyable. I guess it depends on your mind - I myself find art very boring. <BR>

I think boring is what you make of it. Countries such as America (sorry, Americans) are being so commercialized be companies like Starbucks. Commercialization tottaly strips the country of it's natural landscape and brings society down. We are too busy sipping brand name coffee that we often forget the beauty of places. I'm not saying that Europe hasn't be commercialized. It has but not to the extent of America and there brand name coffees. Also, coming as a inexeperienced (un?) traveller I think that ANYTHING

I think boring is what you make of it. Countries such as America (sorry, Americans) are being so commercialized be companies like Starbucks. Commercialization tottaly strips the country of it's natural landscape and brings society down. We are too busy sipping brand name coffee that we often forget the beauty of places. I'm not saying that Europe hasn't be commercialized. It has but not to the extent of America and there brand name coffees. Also, coming from an inexeperienced (un?) traveller I think that ANYTHING would be great. Boring is a frame of mind that we have captured oursleves in. When I visit Europe for the first time in 24 days, I won't even care where we go. It's a different place with lots of different things and I'm going to enjoy all of them! Chow for now!

Stefan, I too was disappointed in Florence. I heard all of these wonderful things about it and I was really let down. Yes, the Duomo was unbelievable, and seeing the David was fun, but the Ponte Vecchio was nothing more than 47th Street in NY on a bridge. I found it to be over commercialized, and extremely crowded, and those Vespas drove me up a wall. I agree, there are plenty of other cities in Italy that are extremely beautiful and not as crowded with busloads of tourists. Still I am glad I went, but wouldn't go back.

I'm with Kendra all the way. I had mercifully wiped all memories of the tour of the Tower Bridge of London completely out of my mind until her posting brought it all back, way too vividly! She said it was an hour tour. I remember it more as having lasted at least 6 hours. Of course much of that time was spent waiting for the preceding group to clear so we could climb another steep, endless flight of stairs, time and time again. All that machinery might appeal to the most dedicated engineer, but not to me. I've never forgiven my husband for deciding this would be just the thing to do. Also, I think we wound up walking back and forth across the Thames a couple of times. All of this, of course, is IMHO. Also, I find the suggestion of ignoring The David in the Accademia in favor of a copy to be downright sacrilegious. The real McCoy David ranks right at the top of my most impressive sightings in Europe.

If you'd asked me this a few years ago, I would have said Skopje, in once-and-future(?) Yugoslavia. A sad aside, but there are worse things than being dull, I guess. <BR> <BR>Re:Mona Lisa -- the light-filter tint of the security/preservation case around the painting is the final disappointment -- even if necessary. Many reproductions of the portrait are now "truer" to the colors of the masterpiece than what one now sees in the Louvre.

I have more than a passing interest in Diana's statement that Skopje, the capital of the Republic Of Macedonia is dull. I think Skopje can be depressing, sometimes sad when you consider the history and its potential fate and it certainly dirty, as many third world cities are. <BR> <BR>But boring? There is a rich melting pot heritage there: I was going to post "what to see" in Skopje on another thread, but I will do so briefly here instead. The legacy of 500 years of Ottoman rule is everywhere. In the historic sites, the music, the art and the food. Among the sites not to miss are: The City Museum [the old train station with the clock stopped at 5:17am, the time of the devastating earthquake that hit Skopje in 1963.], Makedonija Square which leads to the Stone Bridge, which, in turn leads to the old quarter that survived the quake. There you will find Daut Pasha Aman, with its twinkly star domes, once the biggest Turkish bath in the Balkans, now an art gallery, the Old Bazaar, Sveti Spas, a church with an incredible "iconostasis" [altar screen] carved from walnut, Fort Kale overlooking the city, parts of which date back to the 1th century, the Museum of Makedonija, dreary in its presentation, but full history, archeology and ethnographic costumes. Next to the museum is the ruins of an old turkish inn. Halfway up Vodno Mountain south of the city is the Pantelejmon Monastery church with incredible frescoes and a view of the city and the Vardar river valley. Further out of town in Matka canyon with its artifical lake, another monastery church [St. Andrew] and walking trails along the stone walls of the the canyon. In Skopje there are good restaurants and many small cafes to sit and pass the time. The food shows nfluences of Greece and Turkey. The national drink is rakija, a potent brandy-type drink. [Don';t drink it without food!] Throughout the year there is good quality theatre, music and ballet at the National Theatre. There are also many special festivals on the calendar. <BR> <BR>No Paris, indeed, and for the causal tourist probably dull. But if you make an effort to understand the area's history and culture you will be rewarded. [Which is, or course, true anywhere.] Compared to a similarly sized city [Skopje is half a million]in Western Europe, Skopje has atinge of exoticism that can be enticing.

Hamburg

I think it is great that the world has so much to offer all of us. We clearly all have different views. I do think many otherwise neat places have been overhyped or they are hard to appreciate due to the crowds and nearby tacky shops which surround them. I do agree for example that the leaning tower is a disappointment for many...way too much coverage. Why Mona is so famous? I am still not sure what is the cause of this is. The point of all this is that just because something is famous or popular does not mean it will tickle your travel bone. I still cannot believe how many people go to the Louvre just because it is there. Many people leave tired and bored. That is fine in my view..some people simply do not like the type of art presented in the Louvre. When I travel, I always keep in mind that if I do not like something, may be I do not know enough about it. Beauty is often found in the details. Whether it be the smile of Mona or the patterns on the floor of a church. Yes, even I have a laundry list of overrated sites, but may be I missed something the first time. Did you? Happy travels!!!

Just returned from 10 days in England (3 in London, 7 in hinterlands), and I must add a positive vote for the National Portrait Gallery in London. If you're a reader of history and literature, seeing the original portraits there of authors and historical figures is a fascinating experience. I'd been to London and seen the sites several times. My travel companion hadn't, but we both really liked the Portrait Gallery. <BR> <BR>As for disappointments, what -is- the deal with Bath? My second trip there was as boring as the first. I don't understand -why- Bath is such a recommended day trip from London...but my travel companion wanted to see. She didn't like either. <BR> <BR>We -loved- Peaks District, Yorkshire, and Lakes District. Go to latter during the week, however. I'm going to go back for a week during fall just to spend more time up north.

NEVER DO THE TOWER BRIDGE TOUR IN LONDON....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Cleveland. I spent two week there one Saturday. If only the river had caught fire again, it would have been interesting. Yhe train ride fro the airport to the R&R Hall of Fame was the ugliest. Europe has ugly cities and parts but they don't hod a candle to Cleveland. <BR>Frankfort, very interesting city, most enjoyable wathcing youth stick needles in their arms. Heroin must a blast. <BR>.Stuttgart, A very business city, wealthy but not much history left. Any city in Switzerland, exvcept Bern,Lugano and the small towns. are also bereft of interest.. alan

Just had to post a reply to all of the Pisa-bashing. I quite enjoyed it. <BR> <BR>We took a commuter train to Pisa walked thru the town to the tower. My first reaction...'What the hell were they thinking?'. Between the tower, the cathedral and the baptistry, I had a good time. <BR> <BR>Wandering thru town on the way back to the train, stopping at bakeries and fruit stands made it even more enjoyable...

geez!

Try Charleroi in Belgium! For that matter, try any northern European town on a Sunday afternoon in February!

I thought Pisa was certainly worth half a day. I'm sure it was alot more fun when you could walk (or run) up the tower - leaning out on one side and leaning in on the other made for a very unusual experience.

<BR> <BR>The 'Sue Ellen' crack alone made it worth reading all 111 posts. I burst out laughing right here at work (you people should try to be less funny, you're going to get me fired). <BR> <BR>I intended to find out why my search on 'Hamburg' brought up the 'dullest place' thread. Of course, Hamburg was not mentioned until about post #105, and then only had one word, 'Hamburg'. It's on my itinerary for May, and I have had a heck of a time finding anyone who has anything at all to say about the place. <BR> <BR>Just as well, I like to make up my own mind about a place anyway. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Just to liven things up--I found Provence very disappointing! After you've seen one village perche, you've seen them all. Why didn't anyone tell me that being in Provence is like a vacation in the country anywhere--ok, ok so the markets and the food are the best in the world...but basically it's dullsville.

In response to previous comments about Berlin - I suppose we were disappointed, we did cut our stay short. But the disappointment was probably our own fault for having some bizarre expectations for the city. While I have never had a problem with big dirty cities, Berlin was definitely a shock to the system after Bavaria and Austria! However, it certainly wasn't boring. How can anyplace with that type of history (and such recent history) be boring? I found it interesting and disturbing. I certainly wasn't bothered by the cranes, I thought it was fascinating that there could be this much construction in one place. Even though we didn't stay as long as we had planned, I find myself thinking about going back...

Pisa is easy to pick on if you have been there recently. We first visited the tower in 1971. At that time there was no construction, no supporting cables, no walls put up and you could actually go into the tower. My wife and I walked to the top and took pictures. It was a little scary with the tilt and very few rails. Now Pisa (we were there again in Oct 99) is a bust. You cannot get close and the construction is messy. But you should have seen it in the summer of 71! Not dull at all.

Dullest place I ever was (sorry, not Europe, Europe is never dull) was thirty years ago, stuck in a plane, for six hours, on the tarmac of the airport at Bangor, Maine, during a snowstorm, while they fixed something on the undercarriage.

I grew up in Zanesville, Ohio, which sets a standard in dullness that Europe has thus far been unable to meet. However Liege, where I spent a week at a conference, manages to combine dull, tacky, and weird into a nicely boring mix: 1960's redevelopment, a small row of sex shops a la Amsterdam, and a city park with an island overun with white rats.

I had to respond to Adam's comment about "try any Northern European city in Feb" That is so true-20 years ago my husband and I (newlyweds at the time) went with a friend of his on a road trip in winter from Paris to Geneva in his broken down car (don't ask-the kind of trip you only do in your 20s!) and we got stuck overnight in Valenciennes France in the north of France I think where Van Gogh stayed when he was drawing all those dark pictures of the miners and the potato eaters. We were staying at one of those cheap tiny rooms near the train station that rattled every 30 minutes when a train would go by. I remember thinking that all those people who get so romantic about France ought to be there for a week in winter....

I was going to write "there have never been any dull places, though I have been disappointed"--that is, until the trauma of the Tower Bridge tour was brought back by earlier postings. It was so dull, we left part-way through the tour. I bet everybody thought we were Ugly Americans, but my wife and I only had three days in London and the tour seemed to last ALL three of these days. We had to leave before we missed all the other sites.