Driving through Western Europe
 

Hi all! I am renting a car for a month and traveling from through Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy and Spain, plus visiting nearby countries. Any advice? Anything I need to be aware of? I have my international license and insurance!

Each country has different laws about driving. Research....

GB they drive on the other side or the road, if renting ensure rental company does not mind you going to GB, you may find it cheaper to dump car and rent in UK.

1 month to visit 5 contries plus nearby ones, "are you having a laugh?"

Google times need 40% adding to them

<i> Any advice? </i>

1. Rent a diesel. Something small. Small = easier to park.

2. Start brushing up on your parallel parking skills.

3. Get your rental car with a GPS and make sure it is set to English before you leave the rental facility. Although it will almost certainly be cheaper to just buy a GPS, so...

4. Get a GPS with RDS-TMC antenna. Update the maps on it. Play with it so you know how to have it navigate around delays. Customize the screen how you want it. Load the traffic cameras on it.

I like TomTom's range of products so I recommend these:

TomTom VIA 1505M World Traveler Edition GPS Navigator with Lifetime Maps: http://amzn.to/28MOR2O

RDS-TMC antenna: http://amzn.to/28MOOlQ

Universal High Speed Multi-Charger: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Spe...dp/B005MIZYOW/


<i>Anything I need to be aware of?</i>

Plenty.

- There are speed limits on the Autobahn -- only certain stretches are no speed limit.

- Read up on the traffic laws of each country you will be driving in.

- You are not allowed to use speed camera detection in France.

- If you are not used to driving on the left hand side of the road, driving in the UK will suck -- especially if you end up with a manual.

- The secondary roads in the UK can be harrowingly narrow.

- Ignore any driving time estimate while in the UK. When you run into the inevitable traffic delay on the motorways in the UK, this is where having a GPS will be worth it because you can redo routes on the fly.

- If you speak the language of the country you are in, turn on the TP option on your radio.

I do not recommend using your smartphone for navigation. Many people do, but I don't.

<i>Load the traffic cameras on it.</i>
<i>You are not allowed to use speed camera detection in France.</i>

Loading traffic camera locations onto you GPS map is just as illegal in France as using detection equipment.

You just disable that feature when driving in France. I didn't explicitly state it because I didn't think I needed to. Consider this post my official statement to disable traffic/speed cameras while in France if you want to be compliant with French law.

<i> Driving through Western Europe
Posted by: pjvickers on Jun 22, 16 at 2:53am
Any advice? Anything I need to be aware of? </i>

For an illustrated introduction to driving in Europe see http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap18/auto-1.htm.

Consider one of the lease programs, e.g. Renault. You will probably save money.

Drive on the right lane whenever possible
Never take over from right
No turn on red
Lots of speeding cameras.
Rent an automatic if not used to manual
Michelin.com gives better accurate times.
Don't stay on lanes with T+ on French tolls.

Thank you all! I'm so glad I found this site. I will bring a gps, plus road maps. Does anyone know of any apps that will substitute for the cameras in France? In the U.S. We have one called Waze and it really helps.

apps in france as described would all be... illegal, in France.... as stated above.

For GPS I use "here" on my phone which is perfect

Speed cameras are posted ALL over France, and more are going up all the time. With few exceptions, speed limits are clearly posted, and of course you can research them online in advance. Just learn the rules, watch the signs, and don't exceed the limits. If you are caught on camera, your rental car company will be notified, and it will charge you an administrative fee. Then, months later, you will receive a notice of a fine in the mail, and by that time the fee may have doubled or even tripled. If you don't pay it, you might have a problem making future rentals.

Don't speed.

<i>Drive on the right lane whenever possible</i>

Except in the UK & Ireland

My best advice is to watch the traffic around you. If the road ahead is clear then have a look in your rear view mirror where you'll see the locals trying to overtake you. If you are overtaking the locals then they know something you don't.

Think about what you want to get out of this trip.

What will be meaningful to you at the end?

Unless you want only the experience of driving a lot, you will want to plan for sightseeing, how much time that will take and cut back on the number of countries.

Cultural experiences, iconic sights such as cathedrals, castles, towers, walled cities, etc., major museums, great food, cities with a wealth of history, majestic landscapes, hilltop villages, battle sites, hiking, etc. all take a little bit of planning.

If you plan on cities or towns, be sure to check on driving restrictions within them, some allow only locals to drive in certain areas and you will get a big fine for not respecting that.

You will need two breathalysers for France still. You need to check the car has a warning triangle and hi-vis vests in it. If taking a LHD car to Britain you must buy and use headlight adapter stickers.

Look online for the different road signs and rules of each country. Remember who has priority and where. Priority from the right is still common in towns, you need to know road marings and signs which indicate this. The name board of a town also acts as a speed limit board in much of Europe. The French love to put speed cameras a couple of metres beyond them, so you must slow down to 50mph (or 30 or even 20) before you get to that board.

We have certain cities we want to see, museums, places, but yes, I do want to see everything I can. I understand I am probably not going to do everything I want to do and have certain priorities! We are fortunate that we have a week accommodations in 4 countries: Germany (west side), England (central), Italy (north) and France (south). With a slightly autistic 10 yo, I just didn't want to deal with planes and trains once we arrived. We have 3 adults driving, so that helps!

It would help more if you just didn't break the laws and didn't speed than relying on an app to tell you when not to break the law. I presume you know how to read speed limit signs, if you dno't, you should learn what they look like.

<i>I presume you know how to read speed limit signs, if you dno't, you should learn what they look like.</i>

Yes. Especially in the UK and their use of the national speed limit sign.

LOL, I imagine I'm more likely going to be pulled over for going too slow rather than speeding. I like the apps that have current traffic conditions, we don't have speed censors here so the only warnings we get are there is/was police waiting somewhere!

They use cameras for most of the speed limit enforcement -- the police have better things to do than sit and wait for someone to go speeding by.

>><i>We have certain cities we want to see, museums, places, but yes, I do want to see everything I can. I understand I am probably not going to do everything I want to do and have certain priorities! We are fortunate that we have a week accommodations in 4 countries: Germany (west side), England (central), Italy (north) and France (south).</i><<

Where specifically -- which cities? Because for many (most actually) cities trains or planes make much more sense than driving.


(or . . . By any chance are these timeshares? They are often not in cities but out in the countryside)

Thought you'd like this from the AA on french law


Drivers are prohibited from using headphones and headsets (any device attached to the ear) when driving. This regulation applies to all drivers and riders and covers devices used for phone calls as well as for listening to music/radio etc. Bluetooth or integrated systems in a motorcycle helmet are still permitted.

From January 2016 it will be compulsory for all motorcyclists (two or three wheels) to carry reflective jackets and wear them in the event of an emergency/breakdown.

A Low Emission Zone has been introduced in Paris, initially affecting only older (Euro 1) trucks and buses. Restrictions will be extended to all older vehicles from 1 July 2016 and tightened progressively between 2017 and 2020. More information can be found on www.urbanaccessregulations.eu
Eating at the wheel

There have been reports of a new law specifically prohibiting drivers from eating or applying make-up at the wheel. In fact this is not new, and there is no specific law to this effect. Eating/drinking etc. at the wheel is already covered under the more general French equivalent of our 'Driving without due care and attention' (article R.412-6 of the Code de la Route).

[July 2015]
Breathalysers

1 March 2012 - the French government confirmed that from 1 July 2012 drivers of all motor vehicles and motorcycles (excluding mopeds) must carry a breathalyser. The regulation will be enforced from 1 November 2012 and anyone stopped after that date who fails to produce a breathalyser when requested will receive an on the spot fine of €11.

October 2012 - the French government announced that the implementation of the sanction for drivers not carrying a breathalyser – a fine of €11 – has been postponed from 1 November 2012 to 1 March 2013.

January 2013 - the French government announced that the implementation of the sanction for drivers not carrying a breathalyser – a fine of €11 – has been postponed indefinitely.

So theoretically you are still required to carry a self-test breathalyser when driving in France but there is no current legislation demanding a fine for non-compliance.

The original official announcement stated that one unused, certified breathalyser must be produced showing the French certification mark NF. Carrying two single-use breathalysers will ensure that if one is used or damaged, you will still have a spare to produce. The breathalyser produced has to be in date - single-use breathalysers normally have a validity of twelve months.

You asked for "any advice" and because you said you were renting a car and driving around Europe, most of the advice has dealt with that. With your first question, I thought you might be young and single with some free time to just wander and explore. However, now we have more of the story, you might want different advice or possibilities.

Car rental the whole time may not be your best option. A car is handy for exploring countryside or if you are staying in a rural area. However, if using one base for a few days, you may have the option of short, cheap, train trips without the parking issues. Trains in some parts of Europe are so cheap, and even better, so convenient, they are a better choice than a car. First, for the child, you can get up and walk around. They sometimes have tables you can use for eating, playing games, etc. Also, they often go from city center to city center, making it easy to go from one town to another for exploring.

So, some questions.

Are the four places you plan to stay set in stone?
Where exactly are they?
Are they close to most, or really any, of the things you want to see?
Are they free or will you have to pay for them?
Have you settled on dates for this trip?

If you stay one week in each of your 4 places, that is your month, no time for other countries or areas unless they are very close to your base.

Someone mentioned the possibility of time shares. In Europe, they are sometimes OK, but more for relaxing vacations with family than for sightseeing, so may not be a great idea for exploring Europe. Free or cheap for longer may not be as good as staying in or near the cities or areas you are actually interested in seeing, which saves time and, in the end, money. More on that when you say more specifically what you all want to see and do.

Disney seems to be one of your favorites. There is a Disney, Paris, plus other amusement parks you might like.

Personally, I think the 10 year old would love lots of things in London.

Yes, we are staying in timeshares :). We did a train ride (8 hours) last summer and it did not go well with my foster daughter. She can be extremely loud and annoying even to us and we love her. I do plan to use hotels in between the travels. I am hoping to find out some of those little things that might not be found on the travel sites, for example I heard Switzerland requires some sort of sticker/decal pass for their roads? And that Belgium can have hectic roads? Driving in Italy can be wild because they don't always stop at red lights? I've been to Tehran and nothing can beat their crazy driving!

BTW, the two other drivers are my adult children. So do any of the countries have a 21 and up driving rule? One is 19 and the other is 23.

Before anyone can give you useful advice -- we really need to know <u>where</u> the properties are - those are some BIG countries.

Having additional drivers those ages will definitely increase your costs -- and the 19 yo may be a no go. Also - you have the issue of having a continental car (left hand drive) in the UK (right hand drive).

A couple of notes:

You must get permission from the rental car agency to take a car rented on the continent to the UK and many (most) agencies will not allow it

Driving a left hand drive car on roads in the opposite direction can be very disorienting and you should be very careful the first few days

All drivers must be listed on the contract and you will be charged extra for each. I think it unlikely that a 19 year old would be allowed to drive and 23 would depend on the agency - and again might be an upcharge (often anyone under 25). This is not a local law but the rules of the rental agency.

All drivers need an international driving permit as well as their US license

MANY cities and towns have pedestrian only zones in the center and you MAY NOT enter by car. There are cameras everywhere and they will catch you and fine you. Expect to pay not only a fine of at least $100 but also a fee to the rental car company for providing your info to the police. Parking lots are usually in the outskirt of the zone and don't plan on free street parking.

Separately - without knowing exactly where you will be staying - the exact town - it will be hard to give detailed advice. But be aware that many of these time shares are at the end of hell and gone and are mainly for people looking for a rest in the country - with hiking and possibly other sports facilities onsite. They are usually not located for touring major tourist sights - may take a couple of hours to get to anyplace you want to see.

Would never suggest 8 hour trains rides for the young one. Wouldn't suggest 8 hour car rides either. I am not a kid, and I hate being seat belted in anything for more than an hour two. How will the 8 hour plane ride be?

Using trains would be more like these examples.
There are great cheap local trains and super fast trains between cities.

Venice as base. No cars allowed anyway. Four great days with no car.
Tour Venice for a day.
Take vaporetto to Burano for morning and lunch, Lido for an afternoon of swimming.
Train (1/2 hour) to Padua or Vicenza for a day
Train (1 hour, 10 min) to Verona for a day.

Rome as a base. Five or six fabulous days without car.
Tour Rome for 2 days. There is enough to do for weeks right in Rome, but don't yet know your interests.
Train (about an hour) to Orvieto for a day
Train (local, city train ticket, about 1/2 an hour) to Ostia Antica for a morning or afternoon
Train to local beach for an afternoon and evening
Train to Naples (even Pompeii) for a day.

Lucca (in Tuscany) as a base. This could go either way.
If you stay right in Lucca, then no car for two days, then rent for two days.
Day in Lucca, biking the walls, etc.
Train (15-20 minutes) to Pisa
Train (hour and 20 minutes) to Florence for the day
Rent a car for two days to see nearby towns and villages.

Or, stay in the Tuscan countryside in a place with a pool and rent a car for the whole time.

Spain
Barcelona - three days, no car wanted or needed for anything.
Tour the city for at least two days. Child will love the parks, etc.
Beach for a day, just out of the city, local bus

Now, if you want the countryside of say, Germany, Bavaria, the castles, lakes, Romantic Road, etc., the Alsace area, the car will be perfect. It would also be great in Provence, and though not necessary, works well in The Netherlands. Are any of your time shares near these areas?

There are many specific suggestions we could make, events like the Burning of the castle in Heidelberg, etc., but no point without knowing when and where you will actually be.

Here's where we will stay.
Stadtkyll, Germany
2 nights Paris
1 night London
Cumbria, England
1 night Edinburgh?
1 night Switzerland not sure where yet
Ponte di Legno, Brescia, Italy
Canet en Rousillon, France

Trains in Italy and Spain, we all have our IDP's. 9 yo is good with car, as long as there's no strangers, loud noises and she has her laptop.

Suggestions on best places to stay in Switzerland?

Staying IN London and Paris makes no sense at all. You will be taking the Eurotunnel Le Shuttle -- which starts at Calais, and ends in Folkestone. Not Paris or London.


Re Cumbria: Is it perhaps Langdale? That is one loooong haul from Folkestone. Like an 8 hour drive without a single stop.

AND -- how are you getting from Edinburgh to Switzerland? You will have to fly and there is no way you can drop a car that you rented on the Continent in Edinburgh. One Night in Edinburgh after driving from Cumbria will be useless. Since you would have to fly anyway -- MAN makes MUCH more sense than EDI.

Your whole plan needs revision/adjustments.

With travel time getting there, staying one night in any place does not give any time for seeing it. Two nights give you one day.

Look at all the things you want to see in say, London.
Hampton Court Palace (really great for everyone in the family, especially young girl - takes most of a day), Tower of London, Westminster Abby, London Eye, British Museum, etc., etc. How much time or days will they take? Add in how much time it will take to get there from your last hotel and to the place in London. That is how much time you need for that visit.

If your older daughters have any interest in Jane Austen, consider 2 nights (1 day) in Bath, England.

What do you plan to see in Paris in 1 night? The travel will eat up all of your time. Same for Edinburgh and Switzerland. You will only be stopping for sleep, no time to do or see.

sassafrass: I'm assuming the stop overs in Paris, London, single night in Switzerland, etc. are simply way stops between the various time share weeks . . . not for actual sightseeing. (If they are expecting to sightsee - then even more adjustments need to be made)

For sure there are legs that don't make sense.

Like Edinburgh > Switzerland > Brescia? Instead, one can get on a plane at Manchester, get off in Milan 2 hours later, pick up a rental car and drive the short distance to Brescia.

I was hoping Ponte di Legno was actually closer to Brescia, which is beautiful, but Ponte di Legno is a cute, mountain resort town, a 2 hour drive North in the mountains. The mountains are pretty, but mostly it is another timeshare for relaxing, hiking, etc. nice for holidays or skiing in winter, not good at all for seeing towns and cities in Italy.

To the OP,
If mostly seeking a relaxing holiday, your time shares work, sort of like ski resorts or beach condos in the states where you stay put, swim, relax, ski, etc. Think Poconos or Myrtle Beach. If you want, as you said, to "see a lot," this one in Italy does not work at all and the one in France does not work well. It will be a 4 to 6 hour round trip just to Brescia. As already said, many time shares in Europe are not well located for "seeing" things like museums, churches, etc. Sadly, if you and your family want to see the cultural, historical and artistic riches of Europe, you will have to give up on using some of the time shares.

One night stand do not work. That means less than a day in that location.
Slow down and see more.

The more this "plan" unfolds, the worse it looks.

There is no point in going somewhere for one night - none.

Ponte de Legno is going to require major efforts to get around to see much of anything, and the kids at those ages will likely go stir crazy in what will seem like a retirement home.

Edinburgh to Switzerland to Ponte di Legno needs some serious rethinking.

<<9 yo is good with car, as long as there's no strangers, loud noises and she has her laptop>> It's probably moot as to whether she's good with a car, as it's highly unlikely she'll be able to drive. I don't even want to think about the rest of the sentence - everyone will be strangers, there can always be loud, unexpected noises when driving (you can't drive more than 50 meters in my French town without encountering a massive truck full of logs or cattle or pigs thundering over speed bumps, or sirens, or....)...and the laptop, well let's just say 19-year-olds and laptops should not be involved in driving.

The 23-year-old, BTW, will likely cost about 25 euros per day extra to drive the rental.

You need to rethink many things about this trip, starting with accommodations and including means of travel between places. Driving all over hell's half-acre like this, especially to get to places that aren't particularly suitable for your group and that are going to put you in danger of some serious fines, simply isn't well thought-out.

<i>There is no point in going somewhere for one night - none. </i>

Unless the stop is for a rally or similar, I agree.

The more I see of this tour the less I like it with lots of motorway travel. My questions
1) which year? hopefully 2017+
2) what month? winter is so different to summer
3) can you swap any of the time shares to reduce total travel?

Key points to me are you will just be burning European fuel (at £1/litre say) for miles, with bad views and boredom to just get back in the car again.

I'd start again, you have loads of holiday time (YEAH!) how do I best use it to get to what I want?

At least three of these time shares seem to be in small - very small - somewhat remote places. I get that for a week, but for three weeks? And while the Lake District is gorgeous, it is all about the scenery and hiking. I would go stir crazy.

I didn't mean I would go stir crazy in the Lake District - I would go hiking. I meant I would go stir crazy doing four weeks of these time shares.

The problems as I see it aren't necessarily the remoteness of the resorts - For instance the one in Cumbria could be a base for (long) day trips all over the Lakes, or to Liverpool or to Carlisle/Hadrian's Wall or maybe Chester and have lots of activities for families on-site. The biggest problems are that <u>none of these resorts are driving distance from each other</u>, the ages of the drivers, and driving a continental car in the UK.

What about IDP, it is required in Spain, France has shifted to this being a requirement, any other countries on this list?
And that is for each driver too.