Driving through Europe.
 

Hello Friends,

Me and my girl, We have plans to go to Europe in the Christmas (Spain, France and Italy) staying for 3 weeks i will be driving through those countries. (rental car)
I have been in Europe 2 times, none of the mention countries though, also first time driving there!

1- With which Country .should i start with?
2- Where should i go in each Country bearing in mind that i have total 3 weeks
3- Where can we stay in each place that we will be visiting ( Apartment will be awesome) cheaper and more fun.

4- how's December in Spain, France and Italy?

Appreciate and help.
Thanx

The most important thing is to plan to return your rental car to the same country you rented it from. Otherwise, you will incur huge international drop-off fees.

So you should plot a route starting and finishing in the same country (not necessarily the same city).

You should ask the editors to remove the travel report tag.

It is december--it will be cold.

It will be cold and/or rainy and/or snowy. It doesn't matter where you start and end. You'll spend most of the time driving from place to place to cover 3 countries in 3 weeks.

Have you looked at how much time all this driving will take?

Outside of cities, most apartments rent for a week, not an overnight. Since you're renting a car I assume you do not want to stop in cities.

I don't know where you live but I hope you have experience driving in snow which you may encounter in the mountains.

I think you need to get a guidebook--one of those Best of Europe things.

Yes, it will be cold, but especially in southern Spain and Italy, it shouldn't be too bad. I was in Spain in January, and I didn't think it was too cold. However, I live in a place where December and especially January are cold cold cold.

You can;t cover 3 countries in 3 weeks. And while driving in Europe can be fun - it;s really best for visiting countryside and smaller towns - cars are useless in major cities - and you end up paying the daily rental fee as well as $30or $40 per day to keep it in a garage.

As for weather - Dec is winter. In France northern Spain and much of Italy it will be chilly to cold with rain or ice or snow, Southern Spain or Italy will be less cold- but can still be chilly, esp at night. The countryside will be sort of brown and crunchy and won't look like much, days are short and many sights have shorter hours for the off-season (may be open only 8 am to 1 or 2 pm instead of all day).

IMHO Dec is better in cities - unless you want a winter sports vacation - since more is open and weather doesn't matter as much. And train is better to do only larger cities. (Don;t misunderstand me, we love driving in Europe and have done many road trips there - but not in winter and not mostly major cities.)

IMHO in 3 weeks you should stay in 5 or at most 6 hotels - so will have to make some very difficult decisions - either dropping a country or just picking 1 or 2 major places in each.

Do you know how to drive in ice and snow?
It seems like it's challenging but you could get lucky.

My husband and I went to Germany for the first time in winter. We were extremely lucky as a big storm had just happened and there weren’t any storms during our tip.

We kept our plans flexible because we were uncertain of weather and if we could drive in it. We're from a warm climate.

Taking on a huge itinerary in the winter might not pan out.

So my advice is keep a short itinerary, you’re not going to have a lot of daylight. You’ll have to have your plans in place before Christmas and you may as well settle into an apartment and shop before Christmas Eve. Plan a large city for those days. Make New Year’s Eve reservations ahead of time, too. Do you want a big splashy, romantic NYE?

I have driven across the continent several times in the winter. It ranges from no fun to no big deal, bit it really is anybody's guess. With that in mind, these are my suggestions.
1) forget about France and Italy as the weather will be too iffy for a driving trip.
2) concentrate on Spain and Portugal. Fly into Lisbon and explore the area.
3) do a circle trip, depending on weather. Maybe something like Oporto, San Sebastian, Barcelona, Valencia, Madrid, Seville. Christmas in Seville is quite nice. It is sleepy in The Algarve.
4) decide if you want some chilly beach time. We have spent Christmas on the beach in the Algarve many years and it is generally shorts and sweatshirt weather.
5) head back to Lisbon and. Arch a cheap flight to Madeira for new year's.

That is a rough idea and obviously, needs tweaking.

Auto correct is the work of the devil! Catch a cheap flight.

Even as a die-hard europhile, I can think of few things less appealing than a 3-week driving tour of 3 countries in Europe in December. Bad weather, snow, ice, many things closed down for the season in the barren countryside, hefty fees to park in the cities (which are really the only places there's much of anything to do).

I think you need to go back to the drawing board with this plan.

Your questions are indicative that you really need a reality check and a recalibration on the expectations out of this trip. First off, to plan a 3 weeks road trip covering three vast, different countries and THEN ponder how's the weather really blows my mind.... :-? In Spain, if you go North your trip is a bad idea-- if you head South, doable. That's just an example of how much more thought ought to go into this plan. Same for Italy and France. WHAT do you like determines WHERE YOU going, HOW long are you staying, WHAT mode of transport is truly safer/better?

December in Europe is beautiful and cold in most parts. It is the time to take in museums and romantic, cozy lodges in the snowy resorts and villages.

Take the 3 weeks, slow down the pace, min 4 home bases, day trips from there. Consider alternate means of transport, i.e. train between home bases.

I gotta do this it's risky, dangerous and it will never be as bad as buffalo.

and by the way, right now i live in a very HOOOT weather country (Kuwait) it's 47 degrees while i am talking to you right now :D
i think it time to have Europe in a different condition ;)

Thank you all for your comments ... and i am still looking forward for more.

<i>i think it time to have Europe in a different condition</i>


Spring time?

How does "your girl" feel about all that driving in possible snow and ice? How does she feel about even being in a car for such long stretches of time? Wouldn't she prefer some cozy lodge or city cafes?

Has your girl been to Europe before? Doesn't she want to see any of the big sights in Europe, as in Paris or Rome? London, Paris and Rome are all fun cities and fine to visit in winter.

OK, it might not be worse than Buffalo (NY?), but most people don't plan on driving tours of upstate NY in winter. They go to a ski resort or something like that and settle in to enjoy winter activities. We sometimes go to the Poconos in winter, but not to drive all over from place to place. We go sledding, ice skating, chill out by a fire, etc.

If there is plenty of early snow, Southern Germany might be nice for hiking in snow or skiing, with evenings spent in German pubs. Otherwise, ditch your driving tour ideas, and plan on three weeks, three locations, and have fun.

To the OP - you asked a number of very broad questions, and you received some extremely helpful and practical advice about your highly dubious (I successfully fought the urge to call it absurd) plan. Your >I gotta do this< comment seems to be saying that you're going to ignore that advice and go forward with the dubious plan regardless of what you are told..

I don't recognize your name - are you sure you'e not one my kids? I wish you good luck.

<<are you sure you'e not one my kids?>>

Funny! I was thinking the same. So, Ahmed, your English is good enough, but it's unclear whether you are still planning to go ahead with this rather insane plan or not. If so, why did you even come here for advice?

phillyboy :No grandpa your to old to be my dad ;)

StCirq : I'm trying to get as much information as i can, and it seems like nobody has done that in this time of the year!
Driving it self through Europe is fun.

So ... Yes ma'am i will do this trip, also i may extend it form 3 weeks to a whole month.

I appreciate each of those comments coz now i got some ideas about what i am about to face, and not like (Phillyboy) Said, that i am ignoring those advises!!!

So do u have any idea about the entry fees for a rental car from Spain to pairs and from pairs to Italy?

thanx

entry fees? None, if you are assuming a tax for bringing in a rental car to a country. But there are heavy cross-border drop-off fees.

<<I'm trying to get as much information as i can, and it seems like nobody has done that in this time of the year!
Driving it self through Europe is fun.>>

Nobody has done it because it is NO fun at all.

There's no such thing as an "entry fee" with a car rental. Drop-off fees, yes, if you rent in one country and leave in another - those are huge fees.

<i>it is NO fun at all.</i>

Chacun ses goûts

Part of the advice I gave you was because I lived in Germany and did drive in winter. DH is from NY, and I am from a very Northern state, so we grew up driving in the US in winter. Winter in some places in Europe can be as bad as anywhere in US. The worst snow storm I've ever been in was on a not very long drive from Amsterdam to Frankfurt. Won't go into all the details, but it was a nightmare. If, as you even said, it is risky, you are free to put yourself in that situation, but why would you put anyone that you care about at risk?

Others who have given you advice have also lived in Europe, some for many years, so they have driven there in winter, just not doing long tours as you intend.

Winter is beautiful in many places in Europe, just not "fun" driving as you might think, and really, really not "fun" for the passengers biting their nails while driving on ice or through a snow storm.

If you can pick a few absolutely beautiful places, not too far apart, stay in one place and keep a check on the weather before you head out to the next place, staying flexible, you could have a decent trip and still be friends with your girl at the end.

If you do this, plan ahead for places to stop in emergencies. Also, be sure to know the laws of each country for driving in various conditions. I honestly do not know this, but I am sure another poster will. I recall somewhere that if you are involved in an accident or stopped because of road conditions, snow tires or chains may be required in some areas. As we had our own car, I don't know how that works with a rental car.

My last advice is for traveling with your girl. Have you informed her fully as to what the trip might be like? You don't want her to feel trapped in the car after a couple of days. Some people can spend hours in a car - others two or three. If she starts to feel trapped, you might want to have a back up plan for more exploring, walking, cafe, museum time or a plan for ditching the car and going someplace fun and warm. If you really like her (and I guess you do if you want to spend a month with her in Europe), be considerate of her needs, wants and welfare even more than your own.

it may not snow at this time though who knows, but you are right.
i guess i will look for some beautiful places nearby, sounds OK!

also i can check the weather for a week ahead " that could change the plans.

now i don't have a plan

Are you by any chance an American stationed in Kuwait? If you are, there are some good web sites I can give you for advice and information.

<<now i don't have a plan>>

Well, you should have one, because no girl I know would want to sign onto a plan to drive around Europe in December in the ice and snow and look at barren landscapes. Maybe your girl is different.

1- <<<<Maybe your girl is different.>>>>

You know what? i linked her with all of those comments, and she is the one who's still pushing to do this trip the way we planed it!!! yes she is sooo different.

2- <<Are you by any chance an American stationed in Kuwait?>>
No I'm not an American, i am Egyptian, but what websites your talking about anyway?


3- <StCirq> what would you suggest to go and do in case i will be staying in Spain? full plan please.

Thanx a lot to all :X

<<3- <StCirq> what would you suggest to go and do in case i will be staying in Spain? full plan please...

I'm neither a Spain expert nor a travel agent. And I'm not sure why you are even posting here for suggestions, since you are determined to to everything your own way anyway. You seem to know what you want to do, so just go do it and enjoy.

You got that right, it's a time wast being here ;)
Later for the next trip.

For the best bet on good weather and relatively warmer temperature, regions/areas of countries you mentioned play a big part - also luck, as you can never have a gurantee with the weather anywhere you visit.

We visited Italy three times in December in these last 5 years, and we were lucky enough to have nice weather every time.

Last December we went for a day trip to Madonna di Campiglio in the Dolomite mountains, and though it was freezingly cold compared to Trento which is further to the south of Alto Adige, and in high altitude, it was still a nice day with no snow or rain and my husband drove without any problem. We walked in Trento city quite a few times in the evenings, and I can't say we felt too cold. Good warm jackets, a hat and gloves, and good shoes or boots (even though I did not always use them) plus an umbrella in case of rain, are more than enough.

In certain regions like Trento and Alto Adige by law you have to have in your possession snow chains in the boot of your car, we always have to hire them as we usually like to include a mountaineous region - but till now we have never used them, even at the rental office last December they told us that most probably we would never use them as several inches of rain has to fall - money down the drain, but better that way than being fined. The law does not apply to regions or areas that are not mountaineous.

Temperatures are not so low in various provences in the regions of Tuscany, Liguria (we did not yet visit this region - unfortunately they experienced the heavy rainfall last year) Umbria, even in Emiglia Romagna ( last December we also visited this region - we do like to move around as well - and we walked around many open air places of interest, like the Italia in miniature park, Rimini etc Again, to be on the safer side, avoid day trips to mountaineous areas or high hills (common in Tuscany - again we never encountered problems) if it is rainy weather, as temperatures fall the higher higher altitude, and roads might be icy. I do not think the cold would be unbearable i many areas, it felt much colder when we went to England and Wales for a Christmas holiday way back in 2004.

In December 2007 we went for a few days to the Abruzzo mountains, and stayed in a tiny hamlet called Rocca Pia close to Roccaraso. Again, we found no difficulty to reach it, and again were lucky with the weather, but I have to say it WAS freezingly cold in the evening in Rocca Pia - but there was such a beautiful atmosphere in the small hotel, and in the afternoon till early evening we still went to Roocaraso which is a ski resort, and took some lovely pictures on the snow.

Your main problem, in my opinion is where to pick up and drop off car, since, as another Fodorite pointed out, drop off charges are really high when you deposit car in another country from that of pick-up - even up to 500 Euros. The extra charge is not much is you leave car in another location in the same country, around 50 euro fee. Regarding your long distance travels - I am assuming that both you and your girlfriend do not mind the long drives.

To drive back to the same airport from where you picked up car would be so time-consuming as well as expensive (fuel rates are high everywhere) so what I would do is this, again considering you really want to visit the three countries.

I would land in Toulouse, an airport in France, about three hours and forty five minutes drive to Barcelona. Southern Spain is warmer than the north, like in so many countries - you might be interested in staying in a town or village close to Barcelona, but not in Barcelona itself, as it would not be easy to base yourself in Barcelona and drive in and out of city centre. From there you can do day trips in Spain. You have to preplan this, check out distances etc.

After your week in Spain, I would head eastwards to the south of France, maybe making an overnight stop to break the journey. For the week you have in France you might be either interested in basing yourself in a town on the French Riviera or anywhere inland in Provence, some areas are called the wine country of Provence (the name of the whole region). I am sure several Fodorites who travelled to this region can give you their best recommendations. On the French Riviera you can do trips (or stop for a couple of hours to some well known towns on the coast like Nice, Saint Tropez, Cannes, Cote D'Azur, Monaco etc, or drive inland.

For the next 6 or 7 days in Italy I would base myself in a town close to Pisa, (let's say your accomodation in France is close to Nice - then it would take you about 3 hours and 15 minutes to drive from Nice to Pisa area) from where you can do day trips to the Cinque Terre, and other towns and cities in Tuscany such as Florence, Lucca, San Gimignano and Siena. Avoid finding accomodation in centre of the big towns and cities of Tuscany as it would be so inconvenient to drive to city centres, as there are many restricted areas, and also difficult to find parking. I think finding accomodation at a hotel or apartment on the coast of the provence of Pisa (just to the north there are many lovely coastal towns and villages where you might rent an apartments) would be ideal. Or maybe on the outskirts of Florence at an Agriturismo - some of them rent apartments.

After you stay in Italy I would find the closest airport in France from where you are based in Italy - check out airports of Nice, Cannes, Toulon and Saint Tropez (which are all between 3 to 4 hours' drive. You might even have to drive to Marseilles, which would be over 4 hours' drive. That way you would be returning car to the same country. You might have to stay in accomodation close to airport on the last night - better that way to be on the safe side that you will be on time for your flight as you will have a long drive, unless flight leaves late in the evening. You would probably find an affordable B&B not far from airport if you want to save some money and not stay in a hotel.

Hopefully you and your girlfriend are the types that enjoy long drives, and that you are an experienced driver, as otherwise this long holiday might be a bit too overwhelming for you and your girlfriend. Also take into consideration the high cost of fuel - the hired car will consume plenty of it during this vacation.

Anna Galea
Thank you so much for your reply, I do enjoy driving for long, stooping in new places while driving you know it's fun.

Regarding the rental car??
what options do i have for the insurance ( my credit card doesn't cover) and i was looking for a full insurance package. Meaning i will NOT be charged in case the car has been damaged in anyway possible.!!

Frankly, there is a lot less ice and snow in France, Italy and Spain than some people seem to think, as long as you stay out of the mountains. Yes, there can be a surprise storm from time to time, but as long as you pay attention to the weather reports, it generally calls for just a little improvization.

Look at the AutoEurope insurance options, but be aware that certain things are never covered by insurance -- such as the roof of the car!

Ahmed - Even we always purchase the excess insurance, as it is called, at rental office. You buy and pay for it when you pick up hired car, even if you pay full rate for car hire online - that is usually the policy in many countries in Europe

. We always hire with Avis, and lately it is giving extremely good offers and rates, I would say one of the best (I prefer never to use brokers as I want to decide for myself which car hire company I want to choose and not let them choose for me) and I have never had any problems whatsoever when hiring with them. We only once did a minor damage to the car - broken a side window mirror. We informed them about it on returning the car - they took note of it, but of course we were not charged a cent for it since we paid the additional excess insurance - I wouldn't know if that would be the case if we didn't take that extra insurance.

The rate for the excess insurance differs a bit from country to country, and even location of pickup in a particular country and also probably according to duration of holiday (we never do three-week holidays). If I remember well it roughly costs (for a dew days up to a two weeks' holiday, as usually in our case), from 20 to 35 euro per day. By buying the excess insurance, no money would be blocked from your credit card by Avis (Avis never did it to us, a few other car companies still blocked us some money when we still paid for this access insurance - wonder what would have happened if we did experienca some sort of accident whether they would withdraw that blocked money from our account). That is the reason I trust Avis and prefer to pay their daily excess insurance for total peace of mind. I book through the Avis UK website, if you pay online when booking (which is what we always do), you get a discount. You select your preference on 'pay now'. and not 'pay later'. Maybe you can make them make queries for you at the rental office where you are hiring the car on the rate of the excess insurance for three weeks, or phone up the rental office where you pick up the car.

I totally agree with kerouac regarding the climate - if you do not want to risk stay away from mountaineous regions, - saying that some towns in mountaineous regions like Roccaraso in Abruzzo is a very easy road trip.

<i>If I remember well it roughly costs (for a dew days up to a two weeks' holiday, as usually in our case), from 20 to 35 euro per day.</i>

So if there is a 300€ deductible, it might be better to not pay the excess on a rental of more than 15 days. 35€ per day more than doubles the daily cost of my rentals. That's a lot for peace of mind. http://www.economycarrentals.com/ does offer rentals with no excess, but some have said that this is not really true if one reads the fine print.

I don't know that you can get absolutely complete coverage. I think even if you get what they call "complete" it still doesn't cover tires and windows.

If you can get a World Master Card (and it must be "World"), and make all car rental charges on that card, they cover damage to the vehicle with no deductible. However, as stated before, there are items on the car that are not covered such as tires and other items listed in the fine print. If there is damage to the car, you must pay for repairs (using the World card), then after submitting all required paperwork, your account is credited. We have relied on this coverage for several years and had no problems being reimbursed for the minor damage we incurred.

I noted the last time that I checked, AutoEurope now reveals the name of the rental company before you book. (I have a special rate with Europcar now, so I have been sticking with them, but I do cross check with AutoEurope from time to time.)

<i>We have relied on this coverage for several years</i>

Even in Italy?

Isn't this credit card coverage limited to residents of certain countries--the U.S., Australia? I do not think that the OP fits under such a restriction (an Egyptian living in Kuwait).

Michael, Mea culpa. No, not in Italy and probably not for Kuwait residents. Can I erase this post??? Obviously I wasn't thinking.

Thanks to all.

change in plans, sincee everyone a ginst goin through Spain, Paris and Italy in this time of the year ( December).

So i am thinkin about heading south driven through Barcelona, Madrid, Seville,Cordoba, Granada, and Valencia.

Would a prciat better ideas i will be flying (Dec 16 - Jan 12 )

The Spain plan sounds good. All the cities mentioned are great and very different. Barcelona and Madrid are the biggest cities and as different as they can be. The Madrid-Barcelona football matches are among the most heated on the planet for both historical, political and football reasons. Sevilla, Córdoba and Granada are full of history and culture and the influence of Moorish al-Andalus is everywhere to see. Valencia is up and coming.

Perhaps spend Christmas time in wonderful Sevilla, and watch out for villancicos (flamenco inspired Christmas songs) in the streets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltDBAXXnqI

Córdoba - the most advanced city in the western world arond 10-11th century - has got a quite spectacular New Years Eve celebration on the main Tendillas square.