This thread just makes me laugh, because Americans (and I am one) are the only people I know who berate themeselves for being who they are.

One poster above said something like "Americans refuse to adapt to the local culture". Well, I live in Hong Kong, and the local culture is to spit in the street and pick your nose. Funny, I don't see any threads here about why us horrible Americans cannot adapt to the local culture in HOng Kong.....

Americans do not drink everything with ice. We don't drink orange juice with ice. Iced tea, if actually made properlay HAS to be made with ice, because you are suppose to brew fresh hot tea and then pour it over ice to make it into iced tea.

The poster above is absolutly correct that Coke is make to be drunk WITH ICE.

Air conditioning is not as prevelant in Europe simmply becuase most of the European climate does not require it. This past summer has been hot, and several recent summers have been hot, but in general, most of Europe is in fact cooler in the summer months than many US cities. Italy and Spain would be an exception, but places like the UK, Switzerland, Geramany, France and most other more northern countires would not. You simply do not need the air conditioning.

This also lends itself to the need for non-iced drinks. Finally, some Europeans believe that very cold drinks are not goood for digestion. Same with fizzy water.

As seetheworld stated, you just need to know how to request lots of ice.

To Susanteach, and others

“As for one of the posts above about the French "not requiring AC" or ice, EXCUSE ME, but wasn't it just a few summers ago that all of those elderly French people DIED due to a heatwave???”

I am a bit tired all these rants about the lack of refrigeration in Europe, especially from a nation, which, in proportion to its share of the world population, contributes the most to global warming (of course it’s going to get even worse with the emergence of China, India, etc, as industrial powers…).

The US press gleefully reported about the deaths in France following the heat wave in 2003, and posters keep mentioning it, omitting to say it was a Europe-wide event, with 20 000 deaths in Italy, 15 000 in France and 8 000 in Spain, which also has a smaller population. But, naturally, France alone gets all the bashing…

On refrigerating old buildings, here is some comments, found on www.parlerparis.com, by Vivian Leeds, an American who has been living in Paris for a decade :.


“Health is not the only reason most apartments aren't air-conditioned. Remember that in the U.S. we build a house from the ground up and network the systems within the walls before the sheetrock is hung. Just imagine trying to knock through my 17th-century walls that are solid stone to install the conduits! And then when the system wasn't there as in "older" U.S. homes, units were invented so that you could just plug up the window and it would vent to the outside.

In Paris, most of the dwellings are apartment buildings, not single family homes, that are dictated by laws which govern the exterior of historical buildings and are run by their "copropriétés" (homeowners associations). External pipes or units are not allowed to be visible to the common areas. Individual units exist, but you must have a balcony or external space to put a machine that makes it work that doesn't infringe on your neighbors. More and more people have resorted to free standing units that run a large hose to a window propped open, but it takes up space and isn't very efficient.

Lack of air-conditioning is not only true for France, but is the case for all over Europe. Interestingly, in the reporting by the American press in 2003, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Greece, England and France all had record highs, but France had the highest temperatures for the longest period of time and therefore had more victims. While thousands died in the other countries, only France was criticized. (I call it "sibling rivalry" -- our two nations that actually have so much in common.)”

I don’t think the energy-intensive American model with 100% air conditioning, urban sprawl due to the predominance of single-family housing (hence the interminable suburbs and the nearly total dependence on cars) is a sustainable one and should be recommended to the rest of the world.

Some wiser Americans know that, but the great mass of the public seems unaware of it.

trudaine, you are so hung up on how the french heat deaths were reported by the press in the US but here in the UK they were reported exactly as you describe.

I worked in New England in a building where one wall was entirely made up of windows.
The air conditioning made the place like a fridge, but when it broke down, it was like sitting in a sauna.

One weekend, we visited one of those heritage sites where 18th century buildings had been brought and re-erected.
It was a hot summer day and we went into the meeing house.
It had stone walls several feet thick and small windows.
It was beautifully cool.
In Italy, they have heavy shutters that keep out the daytime heat.
Sitting here in heatwave Britain, I wish that our architects could learn a few lessons.

The only time I use ice cubes is when I drink a vodka martini. Or, less often, lemonade.

I can't live without A/C though. Wish I could, I just can't tolerate the heat.

I grew up calling washcloths "wash rags" & also dishcloths were "dish rags."

I never noticed the American press <b>gleefully</b> reporting the tragic deaths in France or elsewhere in Europe. That's taking quite a bit of dramatic license.

They don't value cold drinks. I don't either. It could also be very much an economic AND, I will add, conservation of energy thing. It costs money to pay for frozen water and takes valuable power plant output. Europeans are SO much more energy conservation minded. We could take a BIG lesson from them, including our love of expensive and wasteful packaging of products.

a German friend here in NYC thinks it's unhealthy to drink cold (iced) beverages - that it affects (effects?) the digestion tract, slows it down.

Europeans care very little about energy conservation. They claim to worry about the energy costs of A/C, but they overheat their buildings in winter to oven temperatures without blinking an eye. And they tend to leave doors and windows open even when buildings are being heated or cooled, thus throwing energy literally out the window.

They also spend an awful lot of time driving cars for people who supposedly care about wasted energy.

The reality is that Europeans in general have absolutely no clue when it comes to anything having to do with heat. The only exceptions are in the extreme south&mdash;where, incidentally, A/C is also quite common.

It has been suggested by other posters that we can alter core temperature in a substantial way by the ingestion of either hot or cold substances. It's also been suggested that sweating can be induced by the temperature of ingested drinks.

Yet if this were true ordinary ingestion and digestion would play havoc with our physiology, which is designed to operate properly at a rather narrow temperature range. The temperature of one's pee would start varying with the temperature of one's ingested drinks. I've never measured the temperature of my pee after drinking, variously, coke without ice, coke with ice, or hot tea (for some reason, the conduction of such experiments has not figured prominently in my travel research :) ) but somehow I don't think it varies. (A slightly less messy experiment would involve taking one's temperature, - and note one's temperature cannot be accurately measured by oral thermometer immediately after drinking hot or cold drinks.)There is a way to take it, of course. Don't go there..... :)

And while I've drunk any amount of hot cups of tea outdoors on cold February days, alas, this has not stopped heat loss through my extremities, let alone induced me to start sweating. (Running for the bus, on the other hand, has worked wonders in the sweating department, even in February).

Ice baths, such as are used in emergency medical scenarios, involve conducting heat away from the entire surface of the body to ice which is in the external environment. The biophysics cannot be but quite different from ingesting tiny (1 cup or less) amounts of ice, and which in any case won't be absorbed into the bloodstream as ice but as the resulting water.

What does seem to matter is keeping one's natural thirst slaked, with whatsoever temperature of water. I say 'natural thirst' because trying to second-guess one's kidneys as to what constitutes adequate hydration is pointless and even possibly dangerous (as when someone drinks too much - yes! it's possible!) water.

And what does matter is ingesting a sufficient number of calories if one is living mainly in unheated environments.

Meanwhile, who knows why markets behave the way they do. Why do some markets like their coffee made from such and such a species of bean, or roasted to such and such a degree. Why are some fashions ephemeral, and others more long-lasting?

Fun question, and I've enjoyed the thread.

Going in a slightly different direction.

It's been a hot summer in the USA and Europe. Often on the tv news in the USA they'll show zoo animals playing with big blocks of ice to cool them down. Look at the happy polar bear with his/her head on the ice block.

What do zoos in Europe do to keep animals comfortable in hot climates?

Maybe if the zoo animals are allowed ice, all the Americans should head to the zoo and get ice there.

And, yes, nothing worse than room temperature Coke.

Well gee Anthony. Then I guess it is only the hotels that care by having the &quot;credit card&quot; keys that also turn off your lights when you leave. And the note, if you are staying longer than a night or so, that if you want to hang up your towels it will save on laundry costs. And the surcharges added to packaging that require recycling. And the taxes on gasoline that have led to small fuel efficient cars.

Anthony, I think you have that the wrong way around. I find it odd that I need a sweater indoors in summer, and only short-sleeves indoors in winter, as is the case in the US.

As for the ice, I used to work in an expensive restaurant, and my boss used to say that if you need ice, the drink is not chilled enough. We would, of course, add ice if the customer asked for it, as is the case throughout Europe in my experience.

&gt; the locals wanted to be steamy hot in the Winter and freezing cold in the Summer. Very strange.&lt;

But, oh so American.

Down here in GA, we have to keep the AC lower than we would like because of the humidity.

If the AC is set above 73, we get mildew.

((I))

Well, some of this may be cultural, but <b> an ice cold Coke <b> is the <font color="red"> official <font color="black"> way to drink a Coca-Cola.</font></font></b></b>

1910 - Right off the ice, Coca-Cola.
1931 - Get it here ice cold.
1935 - Taste is the lure in ice cold Coca-Cola.
<font color="red"> 1937 - Served here Ice Cold.
<font color="black"> 1045 - Got enough Coke on ice?
1959 - Relax refreshed with ice-cold Coca-Cola.

<font color="red"> Coke is supposed to be served ice cold - ON ice if possible! :-)

</font></font></font>

OK, regarding that idea of freezing cold in the summer and steamy hot in the winter -- here's what I don't get.

I can go into a place in the summer, naturally wearing light clothing including a short sleeve shirt. The thermostat is set for something like 68. I'm freezing cold.
I go to the same place in the dead of winter, with heavy clothes including a sweater and an outer coat and the thermostat is set at 75. I'm pouring sweat by the buckets.

Why is that? Couldn't they save energy and money and raise the temperatures a bit in summer and lower them a bit in winter? I'm invariably uncomfortably hot in many places in the winter due to the excessive heat, yet I nearly freeze in the summer in those same places.

&gt;Maybe if the zoo animals are allowed ice, all the Americans should head to the zoo and get ice there.&lt;

It could be a great new TV show: watch the tourists wrestling the polar bears for ice!

Does anyone know why there is a thread of 102 posts about <b>ice</b> in Europe?!?

Because it's B. hot in Europe at the moment, and some of us like to dream....

starsville, there is nothing in your post that states that the ICE GOES INTO THE COKE. You can drink an ice-cold beverage without putting ice in it.

I have seen ads for Coke from the 40's with people sipping Coke out of the bottle through a straw. Are you telling me that people put little chips of ice in a Coke bottle years ago before they drank it? I think NOT.

&gt;&gt;Coke is supposed to be served ice cold - ON ice if possible!&lt;&lt;

Oh, no, now we have the &quot;ice&quot; police. If my soda comes right out of the refrigerator, I prefer not a lot of ice in it because like it's been said before it's deluded and you end up with a cup of ice. My sister is the same way... I guess we weren't given the rules.

Folks, lighten up. Just thought Coke's marketing might be interesting - and shed some light on why some of us enjoy Coke on ice.

Did no one else note the move from &quot;ice cold&quot; to &quot;on ice&quot; along the timeline when chipped ice (and then cubes) became available? Hmmmm... maybe about the time the ice moved from the &quot;icebox&quot; coolant to chips then cubes served in the glass?

Dang! Y'all are grouchy today.

And I just HATE &quot;deluded&quot; Cokes. It is after all just a soft drink! :-)

If this heatwave keeps up, it won't be ice that's a problem. It will be our water reserves. Some places in the alps are already short on water.

Now back to my Bircherm&uuml;sli, ice cold out of the fridge.

That was cute, Patrick!

Starrsville-I'm glad to see you found and posted those early adverts. for Coke-that is exactly what I had in mind way back up on this thread-Coke has always, since its product inception in the very early 20th century, advertised and INTENDED this product to be served ICE cold-ICE COLD COKE (not necessarily with ice).

It is the Europeans who have got it all wrong, (I think for the most part deliberately as well) and you simply do not get the same taste when someone hands you a can of room temp. Coke-it is not even the same bloody drink!

And btw, AnthonyGA-although I rarely agree with you on other matters, you are absolutely dead on accurate with your assessment of
Europeans and their so-called energy conservation. I know what you are saying is true, because I've experienced/observed all of that while living and staying with Europeans in their overheated, yet windows wide open at night in 20 degree weather homes through the decades. They haven't got a CLUE as to true energy conservation, much as it suits them at every turn to point the condescending finger at the Americans and their alleged wasteful habits. But tell me the last time you saw leaded gas in this country-30-plus years ago maybe? And how recently has unleaded gas come to be the law in Europe-the last few years? I think it still may be available some places.

Okay, I'm finished with my European rant of the day- in sum, I do have to confess that I STILL don't effectively miss anything at all when I'm in Europe and not here in the US......'cuz I rent apartments and get my OWN ice cold diet Coke with ice-and horrors! even put ice in my white wine so I can sip on it longer!

P.S. True story. Last August, in a Roman restaurant I like, La Scalinata, near Trevi Fountain, I asked for some ice, because my red wine was too HOT-red wine should be COOL not HOT. The waiter joked with me a bit about it (it helped considerably that I spoke Italian while asking) and I got a whole glass of ice, which I used to plunk into my red wine to make it cooler-and they didn't care a bit!

&gt;ice in my white wine
Up to that point your shifted view of reality was tolerated, ;-) but this is just to much! This is utterly disgusting!

GF puts ice in her wine - but as half her family is South American, I think that can be forgiven

&quot;It is the Europeans who have got it all wrong, (I think for the most part deliberately as well) and you simply do not get the same taste when someone hands you a can of room temp. Coke-it is not even the same bloody drink!&quot; Someone's obviously not being objective here. If you're used to drinks being served ice cold and then diluted when the ice melts, of course it's not the same taste when it's served at room temperature! Just like when you're used to tasting only the beverage, undiluted by water, too much ice makes it taste differently.

Our cokes on ice don't get diluted by melted ice. We drink them before the ice melts - and get free refills of fresh, undiluted coke. :-)

Logos-I guess the &quot;white wine spritzer&quot; has not yet made it to Germany....

Water not (never!!!!) ice

So your drinking style is as kamikaze as your feeding binge? Remember, Americans are also known to eat too quickly, not fully enjoying their meals.

Back into the cold...
Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine practitioners will say that this whole “no cold drink” thing does make sense.

Not to say that ALL people who drink cold fluids will get ill. BUT, if you have a tendency to stomach problems, cold fluids will definitely mess with your digestion. (if you don’t believe me, and you have stomach problems, try NOT drinking cold fluids for 2 weeks. Drink either room temp, or hot. Then go back to your cold fluids and you will understand what I’m talking about)

Also, cold, as in cold winds and drafts can definately help to bring on a cold. Notice, especially in the fall and spring, if there is a big wind storm, in the next 3-4 days you will notice an increase in people with the common cold.

Another example- women who have painful periods can usually make them better by applying heat and drinking warm drinks and worse by applying cold and voila, drinking cold drinks. Cold drinks often make phlegm worse, and coughs as well.

Lastly many athletes are made to drink room temperature water, and warm is even better. Since your body temp. is 98.6 degrees, if you drink or eat anything colder your body will use energy to convert whatever you’ve ingested to the proper temperature. I’ve drunk ice water after playing sports, and it makes my gut hurt. Like brain freeze but in your belly.

But crappy food goes best with cold drinks, esp sodas (sugar), anyway.. so drink up!

Actually, I thought someone said IOC and handmaiden and TG were all the same. I don't know. I know I enjoyed TG's posts in the past. I hope IOC is not the latest incarnation of the very funny - and usually civil - TG.

I have enjoyed handmaidens tag lines.

IOC is on the attack today and for some reason I'm on his firing line. Not sure why. Don't care. It will be good if it stops.

You guys still don't get it. It is not a question of what do you personally prefer but a question of 'culture' or 'practice'. You don't get ice in your beverage in Europe just like there are no coffee cup holders in European cars sold and bought in Europe. You don't take take out coffee. You are to enjoy your coffee at a table and converse and people watch...not gulp on the run. So enjoy your soda don't worry about ice.

The *general* American preference for ice in drinks is an old one...it was the opening wedge in Dorothy Parker's great short story, Solders of the Republic, written in 1938. (But a preference is just that, a preference, not to be mistaken for an insistence.)

Along those lines, those of you who like to browse used bookstores/stands, if you ever run across a copy of Short Stories from the New Yorker, the edition published in 1940, don't hesitate for a second to buy it! It contains some of the best short stories of the 20th century, and many relate to hot summers and summer travel, like The Girls in their Summer Dresses (Irwin Shaw), Tourist Home (Benedict Thicken), Such a Pretty Day (Dawn Powell), and dozens of classics like The Secret Life of Walter Mitty (James Thurber).
Several web sites have copies for sale, prices starting at as little as $5.00

Thanks for the tip BTilke. I just bought the book.

...and some of you seem to consider a country's cultural practices illogical or just not correct because you think they're less technologically advanced! Sweating a little when it's hot and then feeling cold when it's cold- wow, what a concept!

Good Lord!!!!!! All this over a simple question. Who cares for heavens sake. Why can't people just get their drinks the way they want them, with or without? Of course I understand the argument that some restaurants may not have a huge ice making capability..so that makes sense but I fail to see why anyone cares whether it's a French person in America requesting no ice, or an American in Paris asking FOR ice..so what. Unbelievable.

BTilke

You might enjoy Gavin Weightman's &quot;The Frozen Water Trade&quot; (2003) which credits New Englander Frederic Tudor with starting ice exports from Massachussetts in 1806. The initial application was supposedly to keep food fresh - but the idea was slow to catch on. Tudor found to keep his shirt he had to build up the market. This he did by selling customers insulated boxes in which to keep the stuff (up until then nobody had a place to keep ice) - AND by promoting ice-cold drinks. (His first export target, btw, was the West Indies, not the American South - but he did his best business in the latter.)

The book suggests that the availability of ice revolutionized the way Americans did business - not just in cold drinks, but in the ability to ship seafood, fresh produce, and meat from ever more distant farmlands to American cities in which the population was increasing exponentially.

As for ice harvesters, not to mention the iceman who delivered blocks of ice to neighbourhoods, they were both victims of the success of ice. Industrialists, according to Weightman, wanted to have a more reliable means of both making ice and refrigerating shipments of food. Hence the beginning of electrified refrigerators, while the iceman leaveth (apologies to Eugene O'Neill.)

Sue, you comment about about how ice revolutionized.... made my think about an very interesting book - Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World.

Here's an exerpt from a review on Amazon -
Mark Kurlansky has written a fabulous book--well worth your time--about a fish that probably has mattered more in human history than any other. The cod helped inspire the discovery and exploration of North America. It had a profound impact upon the economic development of New England and eastern Canada from the earliest times.

A book I've not read, but want to based on the review is Sweet and Low: A Family History. The authors grandfather &quot;worked as a short-order cook during the Depression and conceived of but failed to patent the sugar packet before he and his son Marvin hit pay dirt in the 1950s with the saccharin formula for Sweet'N Low.&quot; The book follows the family fortune and misfortunes.