Carrybean, but it's OK to describe European beverages as "disgustingly tepid drinks" ??? That's more than just an observation, if you know can tell the difference.

Global warming?

Eureka! I think Americans fear full-bodied flavors - drinks (esp coffee), pasta sauce, salad dressing etc.- so everything needs to be diluted and any unusual ingredient needs to be removed. :-D

Ice in summer is a luxury. Wealthy Romans had it brought down from peaks for their galas. Ice requires equipment and power. Americans need remember when the only ice available was pond ice delivered by the 'Ice Man'. Europe and other areas are still not up to the waste levels of the USA. Many Europeans consider cold water/ice water unhealthy. Commercial ice machines are a recent development. Re: Beer temps, An Englishman explained that beer is served at cool temperatures so that more can be drunk.

Yes, "burqua" girl - I'm SURE that's the reason!

"Ice requires equipment and power."

True. So I guess what you're saying GSteed, is that the developing nations in S.E. Asia and the Middle East, which never have a problem with the ice cold drinks in their little freezers and fridges in numerous little shops all over the country as far as I've ever been able to tell and/or experience, have LESS of a problem in figuring out how to economically power such equipment than the far wealthier Europeans? Interesting.

I think Girlspytravel is on to something regarding the intensity of flavors.

I've observed that the flavor of containerized beverages (except water and liquor) seems less intense in Europe than in the States. Not sure why.

So when an American adds ice to cool and dilute a drink in the US, the taste ends up being the same as an un-iced drink in Europe.

BTW, has anyone ever seen any data that verifies that cold drinks are unhealthy and hot drinks will cool you in warm weather?

In the UK, virtually every pub/bar will have an ice bucket in the bar for you to help yourself. Also when ordering a long drink or a short, they will ask if you want ice or lemon.

Gee, I don't like ice in my cold drinks. Does this mean that I will have to move out of the USA? Darn!


Missypie, it is also interesting how things are named in different parts of the US, I was brought up using the term "wash rag", now where did that come about! They weren't rags, lol.

>go get one of your nice room-temp. cans of Coke that you can get everywhere else.
That the point MCD of Germany is a german company and they'd better do business as the customer wants it ;-). Which means 90% of the clients don't want ice weather it's summer or winter. Those are the rules and they better obey them :-) I'm drinking 25C/77F cold Pepsi while I'm writing this...

Really good question, SeaUrchin. We called them that too and I never knew why. Although with my frugal mother who never threw anything away, some of them ended up being appropriately named.

Yes, my mom calls them wash rags, too. Maybe that gives us a clue - albeit a potentially distasteful clue - to the origins.

Last year I had exchange students from Germany and Thailand. The German did not use ice and the Thai could not get enough.

My other european exchange students told me that I am getting cheated here in the US. I am getting less of the drink when I get ice in the drink. Last year when I was in Paris and after a long day I decided to stop at a McDonalds to get a coke with a lot of ice to cool me down. I asked for a coke with a lot of ice. the girl only put a very small scoop of ice in the cup and then set the cup on the coke despencer and push the button. When she gave me the cup it was empty almost two inches from the top. In this case I was not cheated on coke, I was, or everyone in France, is cheated on ice. The servings on the McDonals coke despensers are designed to despence a premeasured amount.

this is all very silly. there is clearly no notion of one way it SHOULD be. and i don't really understand all of the notions of "adapting". if an ice loving american wants to go to europe and it makes him feel more european and culturally sensitive to drink an ice-free drink then go ahead but i don't see the point. just do as you prefer. if you can't get what you want, then you adapt. i would do the same anywhere.

it is not difficult to get ice in most places in europe. just ask if this is what you want. it's equally usually very easy to get a drink in the US with no ice. just ask.

"We should just accept that things in Europe are different than at home and go with the flow."

Tracy, I would agree with you if I were visiting Europe in a social context - i.e., in a private home, I would be being rude to ask my host for things not on the table or not offered to me. The food and drink is not supposed to be the main consideration in such situation, but rather the company of my hosts.

But in a business transaction - and most tourists deal mainly with Europeans in terms of business transactions - it is normal to make inquiries as to what products or services are on offer by the vendor. It would hardly be a service to a vendor for one to start making unverified assumptions, such as to assume that because one can't find a clothing item in x size on the rack, that this means that the Europeans never wear size x, and thus one should simply put up and shut up. Too often, a closed mouth means also a closed purse. Would that really be the ideal scenario?

Agreed, when things aren't available, it is probably in one's best interest to deal with minor disappointments stoically. But this is quite different from taking as gospel the notion that Europeans don't value change, even change suggested from without.

j_999_9, hot tea raises your core temperature, indicating to your hypothalamus that you're hotter than normal, which makes your blood vessels dilate and makes you sweat more, thus increasing your body cooling. But acc to the laws of thermodynamics, the amount of extra cooling won't be enough to offset the heating-up from the tea. That said, in the Middle East and North Africa people have been drinking hot tea to cool down for ages. 40 degrees in the shade is not uncommon.

Well, walk, we'll have to agree to disagree here-soft drinks, which are originally American products, are INTENDED to be served very cold, and soft drinks from a fountain, are intended to be served with ice-they have a Coke/7up/sprite what-have-you syrup that is mixed to get the right flavor-and the right flavor does not come about except WITH ice. You can debate whether British ale should be colder, or tap water should be served with ice-that is a cultural difference-but not soft drinks-and I don't see that problem with the room-temp Cokes anywhere BUT in Europe.

well, girlspytravel, it's true that Americans like food and drink in general to be diluted. All the sickly sweet indistict sauces/condiments on food don't count as flavor. Why do you think "American" coffee at Starbucks is just espresso and water?

SeaUrchin, you are so right. Its interesting how things can be called different things in different parts of the country. I too was brought up calling them "wash rags". Another thing my parents always said was "supper" as opposed to "dinner". I've let that slip once at work and I do recall being called lovely descriptive words like "hillbilly" and "hick"! :)

Tracy

That "burqa" must be knotted a little tight there, eh?

burqagirl, again these are just cultural differences. Many Americans, myself included, have a hard time drinking espresso because its simply too strong. Does that make our version of coffee wrong? I don't think so.

As far as condiments are concerned, not all American food is loaded with condiments, and not all Americans prefer condiments on their food. That's a pretty rash generalization. (Although I do admit that I probably put bbq sauce on more things than I should!)

Tracy

My experience has been ice is much more commonly served in drinks in England now than it was sventeen years ago (on that visit buying a Coke got you a unchilled can off the shelf with no ice). Maybe on the more recent visit the accent when ordering a coke was all that was needed to get ice but my observation was ice was commonly served (at least in London). Ice was also pretty universal, in my experience, in Italy and Spain, at least if one ordered a soft drink (Coke) and was offered often with just plain old water (bottled or otherwise).
I will observe a tendency during winter in London to severely overheat room temperatures. In a February stay in a Marriott in London I nearly baked three shades redder despite repeated complaints about the excessive heat (they did send up a fan). It was a strange feeling to have the outside air temperature at or near freezing and try to sleep uncovered and drenched in sweat in a "four" star hotel. I assume the Brits just like everything hot.

Except toast.

OK, then it's a cultural trait that Americans like their food and drink diluted, weakened, watered down, denatured, etc.

Wound a little too tight? I make an observation and some get defensive. how original, second time today. I'm not the one whose holiday is ruined because of the absence of ice cubes in my drinks.

>>> I'm not the one whose holiday is ruined because of the absence of ice cubes in my drinks. <<<

A bit over-dramatic? How does one get from a preference for ice with their sodas to "holiday is ruined"?

Whoever that traveler/ Fodorite might be, remind me not to travel with them! :-)

I believe you are lumping all Americans together. How about Mexican/Americans and their spice, Indian/Americans with theirs, Tibetan/Americans, etc.

Two days ago I was standing in line behind an (obviously) american couple in Munich at Elisenhof shopping centre.
"Where's the ice"
"Ice?"
"Ice cubes, you know"
"Hmmm"
"Ice cubes"
"Yes, I know what you mean..."
"Ice cubes!"
"Don't have them"
"You know where we could get some?"
"No, not really, don't have them here, you want them???"
"Thanks"

I loved it :D

>>I'm not the one whose holiday is ruined because of the absence of ice cubes in my drinks.<<

oh, wow! your holiday is ruined because of no ice in your drinks??? I really think you shouldn't venture past your front door if it's that easy to ruin your holiday!

All together now, DRAMA QUEEN!!!

Piggybacking on SeaUrchin -

And Southerners with their spice - Crisco/lard = fried foods

Please note - I am a Southerner and was raised with "if it ain't fried, it ain't done"

(Only somewhat kidding)

The question was answered--European history is longer than U.S. history and they have a longer period of cultural influence WITHOUT the invention of mechanical refridgeration. Additionally, many Germans and Austrians will tell you that they were raised to think certain beverages "taste best" when warm or "natural."

As for one of the posts above about the French "not requiring AC" or ice, EXCUSE ME, but wasn't it just a few summers ago that all of those elderly French people DIED due to a heatwave??? I am a southern transplant to Chicago and was likewise stunned to find out that hundreds of elderly and poor die here too in the summer due to lack of AC. Not only are there a lot of old buildings not wired for AC, but we still hear that, "It never used to get too hot for too long here, so we never got AC." Welcome to global warming people! Times change--get AC and help the elderly with fans and ICE! The French are not somehow better than the rest of us because they do not "require AC." They are behind the times and need to update the ventilation in old residences so that their rising elderly population don't die due to heat exhaustion.

>they were raised to think
It hurts in your throat when the stuff is too cold!! It's a fact, not thinking...

Excuse an English lady joining in your very entertaining thread!

My mother's generation would offer a cup of tea on a hot day 'to cool you down'.

Somewhere I have an old recipe book giving hints on how to make perfect breakfast toast which ends with the injunction - 'place in the toast rack until cold'!

Over here we call wash cloths 'face flannels' - presumably because they were originally made of flannel.I think it would be very unusual to find one provided in a hotel here or anywhere else in Europe.

We love drinks cold from the 'fridge but hate having ice in anything other than perhaps a gin & tonic. I never think of making ice. Holiday reps will advise people arriving in hotter countries such as Greece, not to have too much ice in order to avoid stomach upsets; not sure of the medical provenance of that advice though.

Ice is more readily available here in the UK nowadays and most shops have some drinks stored in refrigerators for instant consumption.I remember being indignant on my first visit to McDonalds when my cup was half filled with ice thus (in my opinion) cheating me out of my full quota of coke!

I have greatly enjoyed reading this thread. Seeing ourselves as others see us is always fascinating.

Incidentally, having lunch in Harrods last week (treat for Granddaughter) we requested a jug of tap water. It duly arrived - with two ice cubes. We are getting there!!!

Oh, throw a washrag over it (made out of towels that were partly threadbare).

Funny, Barbara p! I think the "not to have too much ice in order to avoid stomach upsets" is due to concerns from ice made from questionable water. Doesn't do any good if it's a fountain drink made by syrup mixed with local (bad) water.

And regarding "drink diluted, weakened, watered down, denatured, etc?"

WE don't give the ice time to melt so there's no problem with diluting. That's why we expect free refills! :-)

I'm checking room temperature: 1.35am, 87F, 40% humidity, good night everybody :D

Perhaps we must await the next Ice Age.

Sorry, this comment was irresistable.

<I assume the Brits just like everything hot.>

Yes, especially sex, darling.

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

-Robert Frost

I did not intend to get involved in religious warfare. I was making a joke.

We spent 10 days in London and Paris in May and we struggled to get ice for our drinks. We were not looking to get ice for already cold drinks but lukewarm water.

I drink cold water and almost nothing else. At home and at the office I have water coolers and do not use ice. In London and Paris, we found that we were served lukewarm water with meals so we asked for ice. What we usually received was a small glass with 2 or 3 small ice cubes.

On the Eurostar, we asked for 2 cups of ice for lukewarm cokes (there were 4 of us) and we were told we could have only one cup o of ice to share or they would run out of ice.

If they would serve their water/soft drinks cold, we would not be looking for ice! Not a big deal but a curiosity.

Ice, like air conditioning, is one of the modern wonders that has not yet come to benighted Europe.