vacationwannabe, you'll find this is one of those cultural differences between Europeans and Americans. We don't regard alcohol as the devil's brew, and regard hiding alcohol from kids to be counterproductive (ie make a big deal out of it and they'll try it at the first opportunity). It's very common for young children in France to be given wine mixed with water.

It was one of the most stark differences I spotted when I first visited the States - adults in restaurants drinking soft drinks with their meals. That's just uncivilised LOL!

Back to the kids in pubs question, alot also depends on the age of the kids. Over 14? Generally not a problem. Two year olds? Can't think of a restaurant in London that would allow it - pubs are regarded as sanctuary for stressed adults.

Having said all that, local pubs in affluent areas are often frequented by young families for Sunday lunches, much to the disgust of the childless.

I'm glad I came across this thread. It didn't occur to me that certain pubs (apparently those not having a separate eating area) did not allow children.

I was planning a couple of pub lunches - no particular place in mind, probably chosen by proximity when we got hungry.

Now I'll make sure to ask.

The The Lord Moon Of The Mall on Whitehall is a family friendly pub for food&drink.They have a section in the back that is non-smoking and serves rather average food,but we didn't feel out of place with our teenager eating dinner here last week.Their beer prices are also reasonable at £2.09 for a pint of Fullers as opposed to £2.60 in most other pubs.

I am 98% sure that we had lunch at he Sherlock Holmes Pub last november with our kids who were 1 and 4. We ate upstairs, the downstairs was a bit crowded. It was nicely located downtown. We found it by chance and had to stop in. It was filled mainly with business folks. It was a fun place to stop. Our kids loved the london duck tour which ends across the river a 7-10 minute walk away from the pub. It was a much better place to stop than most of the tourist places downtown along the waterfront. They had no problems with our kids.

Sounds like you have a lot of good resources already. Just wanted to add that while we were there we picked up a reference book that was actually titled "Kid Friendly Pubs & Restaurants in England"--it was really helpful and just 5 quid.

This has not been mentioned yet, but there are a lot of restaurants that will not serve children at night, or even for lunch in some cases. We were turned away from several Indian food restaurants with our kids 2 summers in a row (for lunch). We later learned (from our book) that it is fairly common to not serve kids in some places or up until a certain time (like 6pm). We learned to always do what someone else suggested, walk in first and politely inquire. Although our kids at the time were 1 and 3, and required high chairs/boosters so that may have limited our options more than others.

As for pubs, pubs with outdoor seating generally welcomed children more.

Child-freindly pubs according to pubs.com:

http://www.pubs.com/children.htm

Wow, I knew some pubs didn't allow children, but I thought most that served meals would. I am surprised to hear that some restaurants won't either! Thanks for all of the helpful links!

I didn't know taking your children with you to drink alcohol was normal in Europe. At what age is it legal for them to have alcohol themselfs with their parents at the PUB?

Well Vacationwannabe you may be mistating the issue when you say "I didn't know taking your children with you to drink alcohol was normal in Europe"

I don't think that was said. Taking one's children to eat in places where alcohol is served to adults with dinner is common everywhere in the Western world, including the United States.

On the other hand Kate, when you say "adults in restaurants drinking soft drinks with their meals. That's just uncivilised" you may also be overstating the issue (even with the LOL appended).

Many people don't drink for very legitimate health reasons, not the least of which is the devastating disease of alcoholism. While this certainly doesn't account for all those folks drinking coke with their meals here, I think we should be VERY sensitive to the fact that it is an issue and take care never to subject abstinence to mockery.

Just wanted to jump in on the "taking your children with you to drink alcohol" and "We love our before dinner booze but I have always had a rule to never have alcohol while in charge of a child" comments and thread.

I would venture to say that it's totally normal in both the U.S. and in Europe for parents to have alcoholic drinks with their children present. This could range from beer in front of the TV while watching sports to a bottle of wine during dinner at a restaurant or at home. The percentage of people who get (intentionally or otherwise) rip-roaring drunk in front of their children, in any country, is a lot lower, but hate to point out, I'm sure it happens everywhere (though I've never done it). My hubby and I (U.S.), mostly while on vacation but on the weekends too, will take our kids with us to have drinks; we prefer wine bars or places with outdoor terraces; we have wine, the kids have soda. It's never occurred to me that would not be appropriate, with or without kids. (This is not saying that we take our kids to Harry's Biker Bar, or a place that 20-somethings go to get drunk, or the equivalents - IMO, that's not appropriate. But if I analyzed those decisions, it would be the ambiance as a whole, not just the alcohol, that I would be avoiding.)

In Europe, to generalize for an entire continent, there's a more relaxed attitude toward children and drinking wine and beer than compared to the U.S. In most cases, that translates to under-age teenagers having a glass of wine with dinner (or, I suppose, a beer in a pub, though as I don't go to pubs, I wouldn't really know). IMO, it's a better way to teach kids responsible drinking.

We saw no children in the London pubs but many in the countryside where there is often an outdoor area where you can eat and the children can play.

Children for meals? Most people prefer chicken :)

Vacationwannabe, the legal drinking age is 18. Children between 16 and 18 eating a meal with an adult, may order an alcoholic beverage. At 14, children may go into pubs, but not drink alcohol.

I also think tondalaya's point is a good one. In the countryside, more and more pubs are serving as eating destinations, and some have extensive, lovely gardens and excellent menus. In London, many pubs primarily function as bars -- not family destinations by any means.

I've said it before, not all pubs are alike.

I don't want to argue the point because every parent does what they feel is right for their own children. having said that' It's my opinion only, that trying to teach children responsible drinking should include, NEVER drink and drive even after having only one or two beers or glasses of wine, if you're at a restaurant with your children you have to drive home, right? Also while On vacation in a country other then your own, it seems to me that a parent would not want to be impaired by alcohol even a little bit in case they had to defend or protect their child because all it take is a split second for something bad to happen to them?
So if it's a family vacation I would think doing family things should be the order of the day. I think alcohol can be a fun ADULT thing to do and I sometimes drink with both hands but never around children in mine or the other adults charge. Just my Opinion.

vacationwannabe, do you have any children? If not, then I'd guess there's a fair to middling chance that your opinions will change a bit if you do. If you do, then after your evening of drinking "with both hands" (something I would not do, just my opinion), don't you go home, where your children are and where you are responsible for them?

We are both 54 years of age and have raised 4 wonderful kids that are all now married and have their own children.
Like I said, I don't want to argue this point and what I have said in my other replies were just in my opinion.
When we went on vacation with our kids
we never felt a need to drink alcohol nor to take them to an adult place because we were on a family vacation!
At home we had cocktail parties all the time but never while the kids were at home. If I have made some people mad with my opinion I am sorry I wasn't trying to tell you how to raise your kids! if you think taking your kids with you while you drink alcohol is a good way to teach them how to drink responsible then good for you and at the same time good for me thinking it's wrong, ok.

What's 'drinking with both hands'?

Vacationwannabe, fear not, we're not all irresposible. Certainly here in the UK people regard drinking and driving with disgust. Most people would either take a taxi, public transport, or nominate a driver who abstains for the evening, whether children are there or not.

Vacationwannabe,

I have some trouble with your manner of saying things. "We never felt a need to drink alcohol" you say. That carries the implication that others fell a NEED to drink.

Needing a drink and liking a glass of wine with dinner are two entirely different things in the minds of most people.

Dear Rillifane, If you enjoy having an alcoholic beverage with dinner great! so do I. I just don't drink alcohol while children are around or when I have to drive home. If you drink and drive that's your business! did you know that 4 ozs of 10%ABV red wine equals 1 oz of vodka? If you drink two 7 oz glasses of wine it's like having 3 1/2 shots of hard booze! All it takes is 1 oz of alcohol to impair a normal size male or female. I am all for boozing it up it's fun however, in my opinion, drinking alcohol and looking after children or driving a car is not a good thing to do or very safe. good luck to you and be safe.

There's a huge difference between "boozing it up" and having a glass of wine with dinner. Binge drinking is very bad for you.