kerouac, you look great in tight white pants :)

Kerouac, That was a brilliant video and if I could return to the 70s today, I would.

Except that there was no Internet, hence no Fodors.

OK, that settles it, I'm not leaving the present.

kerouac is a duo citizen I believe - born and bred in America and now living in France. Q- does he hate himself?

"(handling fruit at a market stall is ill-mannered in France)"

I think that most Americans traveling in France would not ever handle fruit at a market stall if they knew it was considered rude behavior. I certainly wouldn't, but the problem is, I had no idea that handling fruit at a market stall is a rude thing to do in France, and I think that a lot of other Americans would be just as clueless about this.

Saying "Merci" and "S'il vous plait" and "Bonjour" and "Au revoir," even those these courtesies are more a part of French culture than they are in American culture, are still commonsense behaviors that anyone should easily be able to understand or predict. But how on earth is someone unfamiliar with French culture supposed to know that handling fruit in a market stall is considered bad manners, unless told beforehand?

This is a serious question. Are there books you can buy and read before traveling to France that give specific cultural information like this in addition to information about sightseeing and hotel accommodations?

"Kerouac and rolfene decide to put an end to the madness:

http://tinyurl.com/bnucqp"

I totally love this. Laugh out loud funny, and sweet at the same time.

Absolutely not. My mother and I visited Paris, France in 2007. We, too, had heard about "rude" French people. NOT AT ALL. Every store, every cafe, every place we went they were wonderful. Even the waiters would, with patience, help us order meals. Most menus are English too, but some maybe not. They listened to what we Americans described and brought us delicious meals.

The old saying applies universally....."treat others how you want to be treated"!

You'll be fine! Enjoy your trip, cherish it!

D.

<Are there books you can buy and read before traveling to France that give specific cultural information like this in addition to information about sightseeing and hotel accommodations?>

<and I think that a lot of other Americans would be just as clueless about this.>


Yes. Sure. Most guidebooks have sections about local culture, manners, expectations. You could have found out even reading here on this forum. I knew before I went about not touching stuff in the fruit and vegetable stands. It's not only Paris, same goes for Venice, and I'm sure many other places. You can research local customs same as you can look for a museum or hotel to stay at.

you also don't pick up clothing. You ask the salesperson what you want to look at unless your're in a zara or H&M.

katkat, I topped an old thread by capo for you, that's about books on the French culture.

Frenchies are are a pretty great bunch really. I'm American and have spent quite some time in France, it's all good despite the stereotype of the angry Frenchman!

"I topped an old thread by capo for you,..."

I don't know what this means.

katkat, I just topped it for you.

"katkat, I just topped it for you."

Cigale, I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean by this.

Ok, scroll down until you get to the thread,
Loving the French as they are

"Ok, scroll down until you get to the thread,Loving the French as they are"

I took a guess that what you meant by this was that I should scroll down the list of thread topics in the main France list until I got to one called "Loving the French as they are."

I did this, for three screens (in other words, I clicked "Next 25" twice after getting to the bottom of the first page), and I saw no such thread.

So I still have no idea what you're talking about. But at this point I'm beginning to think it's not worth the effort to figure out what you're talking about.

Thank you for trying to help. If I figure out what you're trying to show me, I'll let you know.

I don't know your problem, I'll top it for you again.

Alessandra - even my macho hubby was sold when we came thru the Metro gates during rush hour with 3 kids and 5 roller bags, immediately jamming both gates when the suitcases got stuck because we are so incredibly stupid. One guy pried mine open while another guy hoisted my daughters up and over allowing my DH to deal with his. It was horribly stressful (embarrassing) but all of the French were cool with it. They waited patiently for us to get our act together and move on.

>>Given that you have now told us that you are a medical student, it strains credulity that you are unaware of common courtesy.<<

<i>Way</i> off the point, but if we're stereotyping anyway, I have to say my own stereotype of medical students pushes to the other extreme!

"Rudeness" is such an elastic category, since it depends on perception, but a common factor can be self-absorption: just not being aware of the effect you might be having on the people around you, because you're not really paying attention to them. It cuts both ways. Excited/anxious/nervous new arrivals in a place are perhaps particularly prone to it - as are locals who are trying to get somewhere or are concentrating on doing their job, or whatever.

Many generalizations as well.

Our large local market provides small plastic baskets, you choose/handle your fruit or veg then hand the basket over to be weighed. If I waited for the stall owners to pick fruit for me, I would be there all day. Handling clothes? Probably not at high-end boutiques but otherwise when in doubt, watch what others are doing. Somewhere I had heard never to ask to share a course in a restaurant. That turns out, generally, to not be a problem.

I was in Paris a few weeks ago, at a café with sunny and shady tables, tables in the shade were chilly. When a sunny table opened up we took it but NOT before telling our waiter. He still chewed me out for disrupting process, I assume because he had to tell the other waiter what we had ordered (we already had our drinks). I offered to settle up with him but he was happier just being grumpy, giving me a mini-lecture on not understanding organization. BTW, the café was not that busy.

My wife ordered some sauteed baby potatoes at a Parisian restaurant during our visit there together. We were served standard deep fried potatoes instead. My wife speaks conversational French and explained the error.

Though I don't speak French I suspect the waiter's reply was something like "Dude, these are sauteed potatoes". My wife eventually prevailed, an amusing highlight of our visit.

I went on that trip expecting to dislike Paris. How wrong I was.