Dining in a French home: etiquette
 

The last two issues of the bonjourparis.com newsletter have held two excellent articles about being "correct" when invited to a dinner in a private home in France. Good things to know.

And no, I'm not connected with that site other than as a reader.

Wow, what a bunch of crap! And you believed it?

It is obviously a joke.
I giggled at "Don’t serve cheese before dinner, should you ever entertain French guests."

Is serving cheese the equivalent of Yorkshire pudding to take the edge off the appetite?

I also loved "please use your knife to spread butter on your bread, don’t swipe the bread against the butter to spread it."

I have known many Americans and can't think of one who would be so uncouth.

I have eaten at quite a few friends' houses and never had cheese before the meal. Most of the advice is probably correct if a little formal. The dress code got to me when one considers that the recent picture of Bernanke and his European equivalent shows Bernanke in a dark suite and tie while his European <i>confrère</i> is in jeans, jacket and no tie.

Wow, you have never been served the extremely famous <i>Apéricubes</i> made by La Vache Qui Rit or any of the Gouda or Emmental cubes sold in every supermarket?

Next somebody will say that the French don't serve olives either.

I can't ever remember being served cheese before a meal either - usually it's those horrid crunch mixes or potato chips. And olives, of course.

"Wow, you have never been served the extremely famous Apéricubes made by La Vache Qui Rit or any of the Gouda or Emmental cubes sold in every supermarket?"

You call that "cheese"? :-)

<i>Wow, you have never been served the extremely famous Apéricubes made by La Vache Qui Rit or any of the Gouda or Emmental cubes sold in every supermarket?</i>

Never.

Didn't read it, but I wouldn't expect to have cheese as an appetizer as we do here. Cheese course with dessert? Oui?

It's very Parisien. France is a great deal bigger than Paris; and yes, I've been served cubed cheese with my apero. It wasn't La Vache qui Rit, however....

Ha ha, you have not touched the bottom then! I wonder why such a huge selection is on sale then with 10 or more new flavors being released every year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crpt1...feature=relmfu

I've seen lots of places that have cheese cubes or brie with bread pieces, or something like that as part of the hors d'oeuvres before dinner (or maybe more like cocktail hour) in the US, I'm not getting why people have never heard of that or seen it. It is pretty common. I don't really understand why that is so hilarious, either.

On the other hand, I have never heard of, and can't imagine, someone swiping their bread over the butter to butter it.

I think that website is often full of it by some woman who thinks she knows everything and wants people to pay her for her supposed expertise on all things French. First, the idea that all homes are exactly alike, can you imagine some rules for dining in an American home? And the idea that you can't do anything different from what your guests might do, regardless of nationaltiy. What kind of strange etiquette is that. FOr example, the mandate that you cannot use your right hand for your fork even if that is your custom just because some European might not. How rude that they would be dictating what hand you are allowd to use for your fork.

I would never tell some guest in my home what hand they were allowed to use for a utensil, why would I care. Can you imagine if Americans told Europeans in their home they weren't allowed to use the hands they wanted for their utensils?

<i>If you can feed yourself gracefully using a fork with your left hand, do; if not, don’t.</i>

She does not mandate the use of the fork in the left hand.

But she implies that it is not good. Being left handed, I have made a point of not changing my eating habits in the Middle East in spite of all of the information about how unacceptable and nasty that is for cultural reasons. And I have also noticed over that last 15 or 20 years that quite a few Arabs are left handed now, so obviously people are getting over the taboo.

Nobody gives two hoots in France regarding which hand you use for your fork.

well her views are generally true for most European dining experiences. I would have thought she should have covered the more obvious French issues for instance

Take flowers the day after to say thank you rather than for the meal

Dont' take wine as it suggests your host cannot chose his or her own.

etc

<i>Don’t ask for a tour of the apartment. The French consider that an invasion of their personal space and whatever you do, never ask the cost of an apartment or home.</i>

Is it acceptable to <i>ask</i> your guests for a tour of their apartment in the US ??

I've never asked anybody for a tour of their home unless they lived in a particularly noteworthy place - of historical or architectural signfigance, in which case most people are perfectly happy to show guests around.

One wouldn't ask the host/hostess to tour the home most <i>anywhere</i> I've been -- on either side of the Atlantic. That would seem to be very rude. Certainly nothing unique w/ the French.

Some hosts DO offer to show folks around - but it should always be their own idea/decision/choice.

Parts of the rest seems weird, and other bits are only stating the obvious.

I am from the deep piney woods of East Texas, and I have NEVER seen anyone wipe their bread across the butter. And some of the Rednecks here do some strange things.

IMO Americans should use the hand they always eat with and never ever in my many visits to homes of French folk has anyone ever raised an eyebrow with what hand I eat with or whether I turn my fork down or not.

You have to wonder where anyone over the age of 4 needs to be reminded not to swipe their bread in the butter or told not to ask others how much money they make.

It seemed strange advice not to offer French people cheese before dinner in your home. Maybe that's when you eat cheese. Your house; your rules.

BTW, I think a good host will serve salad in bite sized pieces so I don't have to break down the lettuce on my plate. It's not a big deal, I just like small salad piece.

Nope, that's one of the only bits of information that was correct -- you do not cut salad in France; you fold it to the proper size. That is, except when you decide to cut it anyway.

People cut salad with a knife? Who knew?

As a French resident for the last 17 years, I am now very surprised when Canadian friends offer a cheese plate with drinks - it really isn't done here. Sure it's your house, your rules, but French people will be rather disconcerted. Yes, you could get away with apericubes - not my favourites - but not a whole cheese plate.

(Also confusing when British people serve cheese before dessert, rather than after. May be their rules, but a French person finds that very strange. Ruins the palate, upsets the equilibrium of the meal.)

We do take wine to our French friends - who do the same to us.

"If a tray of water or juice is passed" - I think she's confusing a dinner invitation with a flight on air france.

But the French serve cheese before dessert, Carlux! And even more so in restaurants.

Yeah, the "tray of water or juice" perplexed me as well. If there are so many people that you put the drinks on trays to pass them around, that means you have servants, and when you have servants, the hosts can go to bed even if there are lingering guests. At least that's how we do it in my château.

The British serve cheese AFTER the dessert.

The French habit of BEFORE makes much more sense because you can continue with your red wine from the main course.

Carlux have you tried those little pieces of cheese instead of Apéricube? Much better, mild cheese with different spices or herbs on top of them http://tinyurl.com/3kwfz2d.
As far as I'm concerned (average French woman) I try not to cut salad with a knife (not easy I must admit)
Hubby brings a bottle of wine to either taste it all together or for our hosts to keep it for another occasion.
We use both hands for the fork, it will actually depends on the food. If no knife is required, we stick to the right hand (pasta, vegetables...)except if we're left handed. I never paid attention to the way my friends or family hold their fork.
And we serve cheese before dessert, never the contrary.
We usually don't visit our friends' home unless they just settled in and are thrilled to show us around. I'd love to visit Kerouac's chateau though ;)

"I am now very surprised when Canadian friends offer a cheese plate with drinks - it really isn't done here. Sure it's your house, your rules, but French people will be rather disconcerted."

Everyone should make an effort to accomadate their guests but sometimes it's fun if they surprise us.
I was once served blood at a dinner. It wasn't the main course and it was out of my comfort zone. Actually, it was good in a strange way. I'm glad my friend didn't worry about whether I'd be disconcerted.

There are people who travel the world and manage to eat only at McDonalds but how many people here do that? When in another's home just be happy with what and how they choose to serve.

I've been served cheese only at the end of a meal.

'(Also confusing when British people serve cheese before dessert, rather than after. May be their rules, but a French person finds that very strange. Ruins the palate, upsets the equilibrium of the meal.)'

Sorry, I'm losing my mind. I meant the exact opposite! Of course we eat cheese here before dessert, so that we can keep on drinking red wine.

Or white wine, which goes quite well with blue cheese.

The more wine the better -- that is an unwritten rule of French etiquette. ;-)

I don't think not cutting your salad is a specifically French thing. I remember hearing that growing up, and I was raised in California. I <i>try</i> not to use a knife with salad, but it can be difficult, especially with rangy lettuces or crunchy greens that haven't been torn small enough before serving.

I've been known to give up and use my knife on occasion. I'm a monster.

You <b>do</b> use the knife -- not to cut but to help you fold.

But sometimes those big backbones of the lettuce require extreme measures.

Coco,

I'm interested in your statement that, "We usually don't visit our friends' home unless they just settled in and are thrilled to show us around."

When I worked in France, and when visiting the French friends of my Practice Wife, we always did socializing in a restaurant, almost never in a private home. My understanding was that business colleagues were just not invited/entertained in the French home. I can only recall dining in a private residence twice.

That was about 40 years ago, now, and I had understood that the customs in France had changed so that home visits were much more the norm. Am I wrong?

more wining instead of whining.
We've dined in many French homes but have never
been given a tour of the house and we always brought wine
or cheese if we were staying at a goat farm
And we brought scotch for the men who like it as it's expensive there.

People will indeed give you a tour if they have just bought the country house of their dreams. In Paris, only close friends are entitled to see your apartment -- but close friends won't even wait to be invited. They will go barging through at will.

All of the rest of you can just wonder, although you will be permitted to see the route to the WC.

Dick, I think it is still the same with colleagues. In my previous life as a receptionist, my colleagues and I used to go to the restaurant together all the time. We didn't even think of going to someones' place. (It sounds weird now I'm thinking about it) It is a matter of privacy I suppose. Only friends at home! But we still like to go to the restaurant even with close friends, to taste new food (and then go home together to enjoy the rest of the evening).

"You <b>do</b> use the knife -- not to cut but to help you fold."

Oh yes, I meant use the knife to cut. I do use it to fold but not always gracefully. And agreed about the backbone of lettuce (nice term), especially hearts of romaine served whole, although I don't recall seeing that in Paris.

The original article seems to be written for Martians who plan to visit France. Don't swab your bread right on the butter, don't remove your eighth eyeball at the dinner table, etc.