Desperate Help with Itinerary to Alsace/Alps/Provence
 

Hello Fellow Travelers,
I have been trying to create a 3 week trip itinerary to Paris and the Eastern part of France. We visited Paris and the western section 4 years ago and are ready to continue our exploration of our favorite country.
There will be four of us and our interests are varied- wanting to catch everything -museums, food, wine, art, history quaint villages, outdoor scenery and generally lingering in cafes. We are interested in renting a car for flexibility and of course trains when they provide a more efficient use of time. We will be flying in and out of Paris and have already purchased our tickets for May 2016.
So far I have the following tentative schedule:
1) Arrive Paris and head to Alsace- stay 4 nights- thinking of Colmar as a base to tour all the beautiful villages on the Route du Vin
(do we take the train to Strassbourg or Colmar and rent the car there or begin with the car in Paris?)
2) Leave Alsace and head to Chamonix- stay 3 nights
We are interested in seeing the French Alps, Mont Blanc, maybe hike a little and perhaps visit Annecy
The route if we stay in France (trying to avoid crossing borders in case it is difficult now?) shows to be about 4-5 hrs. Is Chamonix our best base or should we consider something else in the Alps? We want to see scenery and enjoy the mountain air
3) Leave Chamonix and head south to either the French rRviera or Avignon area- if we begin in the Riviera we would stay 3 nights preferably in a smaller village and not Nice. If we head to Avignon area we would stay 6 nights.
We are interested in seeing the smaller beautiful villages, the Calenques and hill towns. Prefer a base that may give us choices of restaurants at night- love for the chance to eat and then just walk home to our accommodations.
4) return to Paris and stay 3 nights

One big concern is the distance from Chamonix to Avignon and/or Nice- long hauls and would love to stop along the way to visit to break up the trip.
The same for the return- should we stop somewhere for the night (perhaps Dijon?)

We can also reverse the trip if that is a better option.

Any help to narrow down our choices will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all in advance!

Chamonix is ok (a friend has a chalet) but also look at the smaller towns/villages in the Jura (south of Pontarlier is especially nice) the hike of the trans-Jura is great.

You should consider getting the Burgundy-Jura Green Guide, as both area covered are between Alsace and the Alps.

Rent the car in Alsace. go down through the Jura and go back to Paris through Burgundy.

Instead of long haul drives consider:

1. Booking open jaw flights into Paris (spend your time in Paris and get over jet lag before driving) and out of Nice

2. Taking the train from Avignon to Paris

Take the TGV from Paris to Strasbourg (direct, 2:19) or better to Colmar (direct, 2:51) and rent a car at the train station. Even if some others may write you should drive from Paris and have a few stops along the way, take the TGV. You will save the hassle of driving out of Paris, the train will be by far the fastest way of travelling and you will save your time for better places in the Alps. Colmar might be a bit easier because it is a smaller town than Strasbourg and driving out may be easier.

Second, where to base in Alsace. I personally find Colmar more charming than Strasbourg and you may stay in town, so you do something by walking. The alternative would be staying in a wine village. There are many country hotels in the region, many of them with pools and most of them with excellent cuisine, their own wines (or those of a relative or friend) and fruit schnapps (eau de vie).

I recommend a base near Colmar. Charming villages are Eguisheim, Riquewihr (however touristy), Turckheim, Ottrott, Gueberschwihr and more. Be sure that it IS a wine village (in the foothills of the Vosges) and not a farming village in the plains.

Just to give you an example, this is the hotel where we stayed last time (and we loved it): http://www.leclosdesdelices.net/en/

But you find many more options in all price ranges if you use the booking engines and tripadvisor.

In Alsace, you find abundant picturesque villages and towns (including historical small towns like Rouffach and Obernai), wineries and museums. Of course, the museums in Colmar and Strasbourg, but do not miss the Ecomusee Alsace in the south, near Mulhouse. It is an open-air farmhouse museum. Drive through the mountains and the three lakes which are named for their colours (lac blanc, lac noir, lac vert). Visit the WWI battlefield on Viel Armand and have a rustic meal, followed by a dessert with the world's best homemade cream at the nearby Molkenrain mountain farm.

The most direct route from Alsace to Chamonix will lead you through Switzerland. On the way, you may include a few stops or sidetrips. Bern is on your way and also Chateau Chillon at Lac Leman.

Chamonix is the base for Mont Blanc. Be aware that the Alps' highest mountain is often in clouds.

From Chamonix, you can take the fast autoroute through the Rhone Valley to Provence or Côte d'Azur. I would rather recommend taking two or three days to drive the spectacular Route des Grandes Alpes. This route leads over several mountain passes, many of them reaching altitudes of nearly 3,000 metres (the passes, not the mountains).

Along the route, you will find many charming mountain villages with boutique hotels that will serve you specialties of the mountains, like fresh trout and dishes prepared with genepi (wormwood).

One of the most beautiful spots in France is Guillestre, a village in a mountain valley which is said to be the place in France with the least rain (because it is protected from all sides by mountain chains). There you find accomodation and many mountain-related activities like hiking, canyoning, whitewater rafting etc.

After the Alps, I understand that you have not yet decided whether to stay in Provence or Côte d'Azur.

Both have their pros (and no cons). In Provence, you have tons of Roman heritage as well as some fine medieval history (among them the Papal Palace in Avignon). The question is where to stay. If you prefer a small village, Les Baux will be the place to be. If a smaller town with a better selection of restaurants should be the place, consider Arles.

Côte d'Azur has the fantastic coastline and outstanding modern art museums. If you want a good choice of restaurants in walking distance, Mougins might be a place for you. If you prefer staying directly on the coast with sea views, a places between St. Raphael and Manedlieu (Theoule-sur-Mer, Antheor, Agay) might appeal to you.

This would be a beautiful place: http://miramar-beachspa.tiara-hotels.com/en/

Or, in a lower price range, this one: http://www.hotel-cote-azur.com/

But again, there are many more options. By end of May, swimming will be possible (though still a bit chilly) and hiking through the Esterel mountains with spectacular views of the azur blue sea will be unbeatable.

And I second jamikin's advice for the way back. Whereever you are, you can take the TGV back to Paris. I personally would prefer spending as much time as possible in the south and take the open-jaw flight out of Nice, alternatively the TGV to an airport hotel at Charles de Gaulle.

If driving from Chamonix to the Riviera, allow 2 nights in between. We did this in the opposite direction a few years ago and stayed in Barcelonnette and Briancon. If you decide on this journey consider col du Galibier and Col de la Bonette on tbe way.

Take the train to Strasbourg and rent the car there -- but get it only when you are planning to leave Strasbourg. You should not miss Obernai and Mont Ste. Odile when you leave Strasbourg -- they are only about 30km away.

In Colmar, the Unterlinden museum has just reopened after a long renovation.

To go to the Alps, take the Ballon d'Alsace road along the crest of the Jura mountains.

Chamonix will be rather deserted in May. But the Aiguille du Midi gondola will run (Aiguille du Midi - Pointe Hellbronner - Courmayeur from May 28th only).
Fares: adults 59 EUR, kids 50 EUR, Family ticket 176 EUR

Colmar - Chamonix by car:
via Berne:
5 hrs journey (non stop), no border controls
Fuel cost 35 EUR, road toll 40 EUR
via Nantua (all in France):
8 hrs journey (non stop)
Fuel cost 55 EUR, road toll 15 EUR

Route des Grandes Alpes:
beautiful, but very time consuming. Some passes may still be closed in May. Shortcut via Aosta - Turin - Briancon or via Albertville - Frejus Tunnel - Briancon.

Here are two websites about the Route des Grandes Alpes. The total length would be too much for you, but you can drive sections of it.

I am very new at posting and was so excited to get so many comments so fast-Thank you all!
I have given some thought to the information posted.
First, need to clarify that our airline tickets are already purchased round trip Paris but do like the idea of taking a train back from either Nice or Avignon.
Also, we have a total of 19 nights/20days and do want tostay in both Nice (3 nts) and Provence (6 or 7 nts), just need to figure which one to do first based on our itinerary.
Based on your recommendations we have decided to take train from Paris to Colmar and use it as our base for Alsace.
After further thoughts on your comments about the Alps we are reconsidering doing it at all and just leave it for another time??? Worried that so much depends on weather and only have 3 nts-2 days to work with- truly wanted to have the "into the void" experience but may miss it if it's cloudy. It seems we are making the driving so much more complicated(only have one driver- others not comfortable driving in Mountains) by diverting to Chamonix. The Route des Grandes Alpes is gorgoeus but do agree that it is best to split it up with one night stops- a lot of checking in and out. As an alternative we could take a more direct route from Chamonix to Avignon (shows to be 4.5 hrs- is it so? and maybe stop somewhere on the way for a short break- a vineyard perhaps ?
In Provence Les Baux does look beautiful- still deciding if we want a larger town.
Your comments please...

I have been through the Alps many times without being able to see them. :-(

You mean you actually plan to skip Strasbourg, one of the jewels of Europe?

Les Baux is much too small a place to consider staying. I will be taking some friends there in July, but I doubt that we will even devote half a day to it, even including the <I>Carrières des Lumières</I>.

I would stay in Strasbourg over Colmar in a heartbeat, though Colmar is darling.

As for Les Baux, have been there many times and would never even think of staying overnight there. It's the size of a pinhead, and getting in and out of it in tourist high season means steep, hilly roads absolutely clogged with traffic. If you want a smaller village but one with easy access and not terrible crowds, base in Maussane-les-Alpilles.

Kerouac- i agree with you about Strasbourg - we will spend a day visiting just not make it our base.
St.Cirq, appreciate the comment on accessibility and things to do in small towns. What are your thoughts on St. Remy de Provence or found a precious cottage in Cabrieres d'Avignon ( is it too small also?)
Access in and out is key for us since we will be traveling everyday to the hill towns, the calenques etc.
We are also just considering staying in Avignon- so central- and enjoy the variety it must offer.
Please share your thoughts and comments...

Avignon is a good base.

Jenny, I am not a fan of St-Rémy, BUT many people are. It's a good-sized town with plenty of hotels and lovely shops and cafés and all, and a market that a lot of people swoon over, but for me it's Little America in Provence. And, since you mention ease of getting in and out of places is important for you, St-Rémy would not be my choice, especially on Wednesday, market day. Major traffic jams.

I'm sure I've been through Cabrières, but I don't have any specific memories of it, sorry. You might look at Ile-sur-La-Sorgue, which has crowd issues in high season, too, but is easier to navigate in and out of. And yes, Avignon is a good choice.

Les Baux is a tourist attraction, I wouldn't even consider staying there. Sure, I guess you can there are some accommodations, but I wouldn't.

I would also do open-jaw, but don't see any reason to go to Nice since it doesn't sound like you will be in that area. I'd fly out of Marseille.

There aren't too many villages you can stay in and go to restaurants and walk home at night. I stayed at one where I did just that (Roussillon), but most accommodations are rural and not within walking distance of restaurants.

Actually, where you want to stay also depends on available accomodation. We usually pick our region, then we look for accomodation within this region and finally at the micro-location.

Basically, whereever you are or whatever type of accomodation you prefer, you have these options:

- The center of a city or a larger town: you can walk to museums, through the Old Town, you have a huge selection of restaurants in walking distance, you have shopping. But you also have some traffic to negotiate, the location maybe noisy, you won't have a view (unless you pay double price for "cathedral view" or something) and it is not exactly romantic. Examples: Avignon, Strasbourg, Colmar.

- The fringes of a city or larger town. There you find the motel-type budget hotels. Often, there is nothing in walking distance.

- A small village: You can walk around the village, to bakeries, neighbourhood stores, wineries, a limited number of restaurants. A nightly walk maybe charming. Examples: Eguisheim, Riquewihr, Ottrott.

- The countryside: Your accomodation is right in the vineyards, fields or open nature. You have gorgeous views, at night you hear the crickets and nothing else. The accomodation has a large garden, a terrace, maybe even a pool and you can have your meals outside. However, you need a car to get to attractions. If it is a hotel, you often have an outstanding restaurant. Examples: Les Baux.

- A small town: Would be a compromise between countryside or village and city. Examples: Rouffach, Obernai, Arles, St. Remy.

It's up to you and your style of travelling what you prefer. An important aspect is where you want to have dinner (on-site or in walking distance) and whether you are interested in early-morning and evening walks.

OK- giving up on small villages since we would compromise restaurants and activities at night. We will just visit them during the day. I will investigate more on Avignon.

Any comments on our route from Colmar to the South this is our biggest stumbling block at this point(see my above respons to original comments) Still torn whether we go to Chamonix or not and what best route to take as we head south from Colamr. If we do not go to Chamonix- where is best to stop on our route as we head to Avignon - either for one night stopover or just a short visit to break up the day?

Welcome to Fodors, Jenny

My wife & I have vacationed for 40 weeks on the Cote d/Azur & Provence. I developed a 33 page itinerary that describes our favorite villages, cities, scenic drives, markets, etc. It has a section on Provence fabric also. I've sent it to over 3,000 people on Fodors. I also have a shorter one on Alsace and stuff on Annecy and the Alps. If you would like a copy, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach one to the reply e-mail.

I would probably drive from Chamonix to Provence - but if you don't want to drive, there is a train that departs Annecy at 11:53 and arrives at the Avignon TGV station at 15:15. It has a 44 min connection in Lyon. There is an earlier departure also.

IMO, there really are not any "stops" along the drive between Chamonix and Provence that are close to the autoroute. We've spent 6 weeks vacationing in Burgundy, Beaujolais, and the Ardeche.

We've also spent 4 weeks in a Gite just outside of Cabrieres d'Avignon. This was in 1999 and 2003. Cabrieres is small - but has a bakery, usually 1 nice restaurant, and an adequate grocery & a boucherie - unless they have closed since 2003. It is a very good location to stay in - close to Gordes & other Luberon villages, and also l'Isle sur la Sorgue for their Sunday market, and access north to Pernes, Carpentras, and Vaison.

I usually advise people to not stay in Avignon. It is one of our favorite cities - but you'll need to pass through lots of ugly urban sprawl as you go & come from your day trips elsewhere (except west). The ugly sprawl is not the type of scenery you'll want to "remember" about Provence. If you are looking for someplace with lots of shops, restaurants, and other English speaking people (this can be a plus or a minus) - St Remy is a good choice.

Stu Dudley

Traveller- just saw your response after I said I am giving up on small villages. You have made some great points and I think a small town is exactly what we are looking for.
We do want the choices of some activities and restaurants but do not want a city atmosphere- we are going after charm. We can schedule the larger places- like Strasbourg etc. for day visits.
Giving it further thought and continuing the research!

What I would do (and have actually done in a similar way):

I would drive via Bern, Geneve, Annecy. You may stay overnight in Annecy - a beautiful town on a lake in the mountains. From there I would drive via Chambery, Briancon to Guillestre and stay overnight there. From there, you can drive to the Côte d'Azur, stay there a couple of nights, then drive to Provence, spend several nights there and take the TGV back to Paris.

Then you will see Alsace, the Alps, the Côte d'Azur and Provence. It will be a gorgeous trip.

In Alsace, Riquewihr and Eguisheim are villages, but they have lots of restaurants since they are so favoured by tourists. Ottrott has at least four good hotels and restaurants, including one with a Bib Gourmand (excellent cuisine at moderate prices - the Ami Fritz).

BTW, whereever you stay in Alsace, you can visit every place including Strasbourg. The road network is excellent.

In Provence, Arles and St. Remy would meet your preferences, maybe a couple of other towns too. But Arles and St. Remy are excellent bases for daytrips into all directions (Nîmes, Pont du Gard, Avignon, Aigues-Mortes, Camargue, Orange, Les Baux...).

" If we do not go to Chamonix- where is best to stop on our route as we head to Avignon"

Saline Royale d'Arc et Senans (the visit needs about 1 hr);
a place in Southern Burgundy (detour!) like Beaune, Cluny, Tournus;
Pérouges (small medieval city);
Lyon (a somewhat decent visit needs at least a full day).

Jenny

I was writing my response while you posted about maybe not visiting Chamonix. Personally, I would pass on Chamonix in May also. We'll spend a week there in mid-July this year. We last visited Mt Blanc in about 2006 during a major heatwave in late June & it was clear & fabulous.

Colmar to Provence.

Train
-Lv Colmar at 7:23 & arrive at the Avignon TGV station at 12:15 - 12 min train change in Mulhouse
- Lv Colmar at 11:23 arrive at 16:46 23 min train change

Car
If you drive from Colmar to St Remy it's a 7 1/2 - 8 1/2 hr drive with stops for pottie, lunch, "deviations" etc. Almost all autoroute.

You nmight instead drive 3 - 3 1/2 hrs to Beaune, stay in Beaune & visit. Then drive 4 1/2 to 5 hrs to St Remy. You could also drive to Dijon (close to Beaune) which (along with Toulouse) is our second favorite city in France (after Paris). There is a lot more stuff to do in Dijon than in Beaune. There is a current thread about activities in Dijon. Add about 1/2 to 1 hr for visiting Dijon instead of Beaune.

Stu Dudley

Kayserburg is also a good place to base in Annecy.

We did the Grande Route des Alpes in 2006 during the heatwave I mentioned above. This was in mid June. We did not make hotel reservations in advance and we had some difficulties landing accommodations - some of the hotels were not even open yet. We had the same difficulties with a few restaurants when we stayed near Briancon in 2010 for a week. This was in early July. I would be "leery" of traveling through the Alps in early May because of the weather & accommodations/restaurants not being open yet. But you can certainly reserve ahead for hotels & restaurants to make sure they are open.

Stu Dudley

>>>Kayserburg is also a good place to base in Annecy<<

in Alsace.

Stu- I have sent a request for your itinerary and favorite things to do - love to see it!

I have re-worked our itinerary and it is as follows:

Arrive Paris and take a flight to Nice-stay somewhere in French Riviera- 3 nights (should I add a night here and take away from Provence?)
Rent car and drive to Moustier-Sainte-Marie to visit Verdon Gorge- 1 night
Drive to Provence and stay- 6 nights (St. Remy, Arles or other?)
Drive to Dijon- 2 nights
Dijon to Alsace- stay in Colmar or Eguisheim- 4 nights
Drop car off and return Paris by train - stay 3 nights

Your comments if I need to modify number of nights and any references for accommodations

Thank you

Bookmarking

Hey Jenny - what happened to the Alps in the last 12 hours? Completely washed away?

It still a good itinerary. Besides, I would not stay in Dijon. IMO, Beaune is the nicer town or one of the wine villages between Dijon and Beaune. Bourgogne requires a rental car to explore all the famous vinyards. Or you stay in Beaune.

IMO, Dijon & Beaune are two different "experiences". They are within 45 mins of each other - so you could stay in one & visit the other. There is a lot more stuff to do & see in Dijon - so if this was my trip & I wanted to stay for 2 nights in the region - I would stay in Dijon. Dijon is in my "top 5" large cities list, and Beaune in my "top 5" medium-sized cities list - along with Colmar. We spent 2 weeks in a gite just a tad south of Beaune (and visited Dijon 3 time plus 1 dinner there) and also stayed overnight in both Dijon and Beaune on two other trips.

Your itinerary is fine. However if you are flying in from far away - I would add an extra day to Nice to recover from jet lag and get oriented.

Also, if you visited the Gorges du Tarn on your "eastern" France visit - you might be disappointed with the Gorges du Verdon. If you have visited the Grand Canyon in the US - you might be disappointed with the Verdon Gorge also.

Stu Dudley

>>Also, if you visited the Gorges du Tarn on your "eastern" France visit <<

Western France

Traveller- yes, after reading all of the comments and checking the weather pattern we decided it was not the best time to go. I then added our stay in the Dijon area. Love the idea of staying in a vineyard there- nice change of pace I would think. Any names?
Stu- we did not visit any canyons on our Western France trip, but here, after giving up the Alps I wanted a little outdoor
adventure. I guess we can add the night in Nice and just tour from there to the Canyon so we don't pack and unpack so much. I did look up Moustier and looked gorgeous- and it seems like a more convenient stop as we go into the Verdon Gorge.
Your thoughts

<i> I guess we can add the night in Nice and just tour from there to the Canyon so we don't pack and unpack so much. I did look up Moustier and looked gorgeous- and it seems like a more convenient stop as we go into the Verdon Gorge.
Your thoughts</i>

It will be a long day of driving.

As Michael states - that's too much driving. It's 3 hrs from Nice to Moustiers, and then 2 3/4 hrs from Moustiers to St Remy. That's without visiting the Gorges du Verdon.

Instead visit the equally interesting Gorges de l'Ardeche. In addition to the Ardeche Gorge - the close-by Aven d'Orgnac cave is one of the best caves in France with stalactites & Mites. It is 3 stars in the Michelin Green Guide (their top rating). Also close to the Gorge is the newly opened Grotte Chauvet
http://archeologie.culture.fr/chauvet/fr
Lots of interesting villages in that region also.

The Gorges de l'Ardeche is 1 1/2 hrs from St Remy.

Plenty of vineyards in Provence.

Stu Dudley

Thank you all for sharing your expertise- it has helped us narrow down our itinerary and we are now ready to begin the next phase- our accommodations.
Stu- I had sent a request for your list of itineraries and activities- not sure if you got my request? Would love to see it- sounds packed with info!
What a great wealth of knowledge is shared here!!!
Thanks again and hope I can pay this forward

I sent it to you yesterday. I'll send it again.

Stu Dudley

Jenny

We both have aol. When I checked the "status" of the e-mail I sent you yesterday, it says "currently unavailable" directly under your e-mail address. I don't know what that means.

Stu Dudley