Credit Card Fraud in Paris
 

My husband and I returned from our first trip to Paris about a month ago. We used a combination of euros and credit cards to pay for daily expenses. Yesterday we were contacted by Visa and asked if we purchased $1800 worth of furniture on Monday at a store in Paris. Of course my husband told them that we returned from our trip almost a month ago and that it was not our purchase. Luckily we are not being held responsible for the charges and our account has been cancelled. I still find it somewhat disturbing that our information was stolen so easily. I was under the impression that it was safe to use credit cards in Europe. Yes, I know that there is always a possibility of this occurring, but I am just curious as to how many others this has happened to while traveling in Europe?

Beth,
Your card number could just as easily been stolen at home. In fact, it might even be easier than someone doing so in Europe because an $1,800 charge here, might not be flagged by your card company.

Someone stealing your credit card number, or getting your ATM pin code, happens countless times everyday in this country.

Sophisticatd thieves have been known to put false face plates on ATM machines in this country. You put in your card, type in your pin and get told "sorry, out of order." Meanwhile, you've just downloaded your information to the crook who got a scan of your card. Store employees and waiters across the US have been busted for setting up a scanner that gets used to warehouse card numbers as their putting through legitimate charges.

Not to be blunt, but assuming credit cards are "safe", either in Europe or here, ignores reality. Numerous consumer advocate groups and the card companies themselves have warned to be aware of the risk.

I am sorry this happened, but I could tell you countless stories of the same thing happeneing to people I know in the US. Just be glad your credit card company was sharp enough to recognize fraudulent use and you are not responsible. Using credit cards in Europe is just as safe (or unsafe) as using them here.

Ryank makes the point...it goes on all over the world; especially in big cities. Several years ago a clerk in Bloomingdale's in NY was busted because she had one of those scanners which she used to capture cc #'s and then sold them to the low lifes, primarily located in the former Soviet Union and also in Nigeria but found all over the world, for no good purposes.

You don't even need a scanner. You hand a clerk your cc and he or she memorizes the 16 numbers, the expiration date and the joke of a security code on the back. Voila within minumtes one of these pieces of garbage have your number and that is what they are the lowest form of scum.

Unfortunately or fortunately this is no reason to stop using your cc's. You are not responsible for these charges.

There is little you can do about it no matter what others say. So, you have just joined the very large group of people who have experienced this. In a couple of days, you'll have a new credit card number and that will be the end of it.

no, I have never had a problem. Where did you use your credit cards, exactly, can you summarize?

I agree there's no indication that where a charge is made is where the number was stolen (in fact, many bogus charges are from outside US as they are given the numbers by those working in the US and they have less legal ramifications, etc.). HOwever, this one does sound suspicious to me since the furniture store was in Paris and you were in Paris.

There are different habits regarding use of CCs, money, etc., in Europe. Some people advocate using CCs for virtually everything and even want to use them for very minor charges like metro tickets, drinks, museum admissions, etc. I don't do that myself, not only because it's more trouble to use one for minor costs, but just because I don't want my card number being used at so many places and taken by so many people, and also because I don't like keeping track of the slips, comparing to my bills, etc.

I only use mine for major purchases -- hotel bills, large train fares, large store purchases and meals over about 30 euro.

OK, I guess I was a little naive to think I was "safe" by using a credit card while traveling. Since it is widely considered unsafe to carry a lot of cash around also, I guess it is a no win situation in terms of your chances of being stolen from. I fully understand that it can happen anywhere at any time, but given that this was the first time that it ever happened to me (and I was in Paris at the time) made me wonder if it was more prevalent in Europe since tourists are often targets for theft. In retrospect, it is probably just a coincidence that my first experience with credit card theft happened to occur in Paris.

It happen to me in England. Very stange in did.
A travel agency accepted as a firm reservation an agenda sheet faxed with my CC number and signature. The senders of the fax have never showed up, but the Travel Agent decided to charge my CC for the reservation.
I refused to pay and was later released from all charges and a new CC with a new number was delivered to me.

Another reason why it's important to call your credit card companies and tell them you'll be in Europe, and for how long!

Christina, the law of averages may somewhat favor you following your credit-card use "rules," but it certainly doesn't make you immune from the danger. CC theft can happen almost anywhere any time.
And, BethG, look on the bright side. Your credit card company caught the illegal activity with the result that you only suffered the inconvenience of having get a new card.

strass:

I know that is a common so called precaution people urge and there is nothing to lose doing it....

however, once I called a cc company to do this and I was told they would take the information to make me happy but the computer might flag what it considers suspicious charges anyway. And besides that, the clerk told me, how do we know you're not the thief.

So this person called to tell them they would be in Paris and the number was stolen in Paris. A couple of days later an authorization comes in from Paris for a large amount....while it might seem suspicious there is a notation on the account you will be in Paris. Perhaps it doesn't ring the same bell as this one did.

Again not saying not to do it but given the large amount of this sh-t going on, it is not going to do all that much good.

I was (and am still) under the impression that credit cards are safer than other forms of payment, because you can dispute charges on your statement. Is it up to the merchant or the merchant's back to prove that it was you who authorized the charges, by providing a signed transaction slip with your signature on it? I don't know how it works. But in this example, Beth_G was not out any money in the end (probably the merchant was the one who got stiffed because they didn't check to see that the signature on the card matched the sales slip)

Hi beth,

The important thing about CCs is not that they aren't safe, but that you are not held responsible for fraudulent use by others.

Beware of using your ATM/debit card as if it were a CC. The money comes out of your bank account, and it is more difficult to get it back.

Thank you for your lecture, Howard, but I have a Master's in statistics and think I know about the law of averages. I never said my habits made me immune from anything. I just said that was my preference for using a credit card and, frankly, most of it is not because of fear of theft, but because I find it easier to pay cash for minor things and not keep track of all the charges, as I said.

At least I know if someone steals my credit card number, I'll eventually get my money back. If someone steals my cash, I know I won't.

When I called the credit card company to tell them to expect charges from abroad, they asked me for the countries in which I would be traveling and the date of return. This can be useful information. If the charge had been $100, would Visa have contacted the card owner?

Whoa, Christina, relax. I was hardly giving you a lecture, just offering a reaction to your comment. Period.

Would visa have contacted the card holder for a $100 charge; probably not but so what.

When the bill arrived, youl would have seen the fraudulent activity and dealt with it. In the interim, you would have had the car to use.

See here's a problem....you're on a trip and it is discovered your card may be being used fraudulently. So the bank tries to get in touch with you.

Several things can happen

1. The bank can't get in touch with you. You're away and don't have call answering or forwarding or anything like that. So what happens? At some point when you don't respond, they put a block on the account. So you go in to a restaurant, give them your cc and the machines comes back do not honour. At that point you have to call the company; perhaps no fraud is involved so all is well but you still had the embarassing episode. If fraud is involved, they will close the account and it may or may not be easy to get another card with a different account number. In any event a pain.

2. They get in touch with you and you discover fraud has occurred. See #1 above.

3. OTOH you get home, receive a bill with fraudulent charges. You of course dispute them and it unfortunately is som rampant in this day and age that it is almost trite to see it's no big deal. You have to get an affadavit with listing the fraudulent charges but they will be removed and you will have to wait a day or two for a new card with a different number. Not quite as bad being caught cardless at home n'est ce pas.

Look, it is a big problem, there is not the slightest question about it and it has happened to me so I know what it feels like.

But that doesn't mean I'm not going to use my cc's and I believe very strongly in using them any place they are taken and for any amount. I hate those places that suddenly tell you there is a minimum purchase necessary for using a credit card.

In Paris, I have used my credit cards to charge a single metro ticket of €1.10, in London, I have no problem with using the card to buy a couple of bottle of soda pop for £1.19.

At least in the United States, I know it is illegal to either set a minimum purchase price for using a credit card which is a MC/Visa regulation. This is appaprently not allowed in the UK and as far as France is concerned, several years ago they had a strike of the drivers who delivered bank notes to the banks and it suddenly became difficult to get bank notes even at banks (some people erroneously believe this was only a problem for ATM's). So the French managed by dropping the silly requirements for use of a credit card and you know what; they discovered cc's are a very convenient safe way to do business.

If you are likely to be embarrassed by having a charge declined, you probably shouldn't have a credit card. Keep in mind that the card issuing institutions (like everything else) are in fact run by a bunch of 19-year old girls on Quaaludes. Mistakes happen. Frequently.

>...run by a bunch of 19-year old girls ...


Oh, you'd better duck, Robespierre.

xyz - not sure that it is actually illegal (as in against the law) to establish a minimum charge for credit card use. It is, though, usually a policy established by the CC companies and supposedly agreed to by merchants, but it must not be very frequetly enforced, as I often see signs designating a minumum at various merchants. I've never been bothered enough to report a merchant, wonder if anyone else on the board has?