Compare Greece to other European destinations...
 

Hi,

i am doing a project for school and i would be interested to hear you opinion about traveling to Greece and how you compare it to other European destinations like Italy, Spain or France for eg?

One can draw parallels between the capitals and the countryside. I'm sure others will go on to expand on the contrast/compare side of things - but that's a start for you.

Try comparing grand hotels - Hotel Grande Bretagne in Athens (see my lengthy report on it) and the St Regis in Rome and The Ritz Madrid and George V/Ritz in Paris. You need lots of specifics otherwise you'll find there is too much information to summarise into anything write/readable.

Do you really need to start 3 different threads on this topic?

Greece is like a Third World Country compared to Italy, Spain, or France. Does that help?

so what do you like or dislike the most about Greece then?

"Greece is a third world country..." how ignorant are you?

Why don't you go to some starving nations that are strapped for cash in Africa then make the same flippant remark? Your ignorance astounds me.

Hi nana,

I'm afraid that your question is too broad.

You must ask more precise questions for which we can give precise answers.

For example,

Is the scenery in Greece superior to the other countries?

Are hotels in Greece equal to those in the other countries for the same price?

etc

m_Kingdom, are you really mean and arrogant or is it all an act? Were you abused as a child or does it just come naturally?

I make it a point of principle never to agree with m.kingdom, but,to be fair, I did find that StCirq's comment made my hackles rise a bit too.

Greece is very different to France. Personally, I prefer Greece, but like France too. How can you compare apples and pears?

I've got to agree with m_kingdom. St Cirq how can you call Greece a third-world country? I have so far been impressed with the depth of your knowledge and your wonderful posts on France, but that's simply uncalled for!

One comment -- for lack of a better way of expressing things, Greece strikes me as a less glamorous version of Italy. Last summer I was in Santorini and Capri, albeit briefly, and the contrast was quite great. Capri was polished, ready for prime time. On the main market square you find all the designer shops, including Prada, etc. Santorini was more traditional and unassuming. One can draw a similar comparision between Athens and Rome, for example.

Of course, this is not to say that Greece is completely unglamorous either. Supposedly a branch of Nobu (the restaurant) opened on Mykonos. But when I was there last week, I wasn't overwhelmed with a sense of glamor either (granted, it's not quite high season).

Of course Greece has remarkable ruins from the ancient world. But I think that I tend to forget that it was heavily influenced by its neighbors (and parts were even ruled by its neighbors). The fact that it's not really a great power in the modern era factors into the equation, I think -- you just can't find the grandeur of Paris or London (or of Vienna or Berlin).

Is like comparing Apples with oranges.

I live in London. The people in Athens are far more chic and fashionably dressed than their London counterparts. Even their equivalent of Mayfair and Bond Street is more charming and sophisticated. Grand buildings aren't everything - Athens has shabby chic (emphasis on the chic) which is very much in vogue these days, and a warm welcoming atmosphere something that London lacks!

Paris is far more elegant than London, but I think it's nice to appreciate something at more than its face value. I always find Paris to be superficial, and below the surface a cold place to be in. London is also very impersonal as most cities are - Athens somehow manages to exude warmth.

Granted, I'm not that familiar with Athens (or London, for that matter), but m_kingdom, do you really think that Kolonaki is comparable to Bond Street and/or Mayfair? Or maybe you've a different neighborhood in mind.

For what its worth, StCirq didn't say Greece is a third world country. She said it was LIKE a third world country in comparison to France, Spain or Italy. I assumed she meant Greece lacked the sophistication of these other countries.

I live in Mayfair, up until a decade ago it felt much more clubby (we're talking 19th/early 20th century places here) and exclusive, the boutiques/stores of Bond Street only attracted a relatively narrow clientele. Nowadays anyone and everyone is found in Mayfair, it's just like any other relatively upmarket area now. Of course the restaurants/bars/nightclubs are superb, but it's not how it used to be.

Kolonaki was all upmarket, and the people were chic, and far better dressed than in London. The shops felt far more exclusive, Louis Vuitton was far superior to the one in Bond Street. It was far more tranquil there too, London is always noisey with traffic. I really would compare Mayfair to Kolonaki, in my opinion Athens has a charm and personal touch that London lacks.

Maybe. I wasn't that impressed with Kolonaki, honestly. Actually it lacks a Gucci store (I think -- I tried looking on the web last year). Not that this is necessarily a barometer of anything, but I'm skeptical when you can't find the most basic of designer stores. Granted, of course, there could be stores unique to Athens, but then I'm sure that there're plenty of stores unique to London as well.

Anyway, regarding exclusivity of designer stores, now these days really anyone has access to these stores. If I can drop in, I'm sure everyone else can too. And it's probably much more likely that a designer store in a large city (in London, for example) attracts a varied clientele. I can tell you that the Tiffany jewelry store on Fifth Avenue feels like a street market during the weekends.

In other words, maybe the LV store in Athens feels more exclusive to you because Athens is less visited (this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether Kolonaki is more exclusive).

Just a couple of thoughts.

Gucci is so over now - ever since Tom Ford took over (he's now left) they've lacked their classic wearability. Far to many pieces are now runway/catwalk only; impossible to wear everyday or even in the evenings. They've overdone their monogramme fabrics, evern producing wallpapers. I hope the new creative director looks after Gucci better than Tom Ford has. I never bother with Gucci anymore - it's so over!

I can just see nana's report starting as:

"Greece is like England except they don't have a Gucci because they are a shabby chic third-world country."

OK, it was a cryptic comment. I love Greece. Parts of it are beautiful. It's a historical wonder. But it has many attributes - infrastructure, etc. - that are similar to those I've encountered in developing countries. It lags behind much of the rest of Europe, including France, Spain, and Italy, which is what the poster asked about.
Since m_kingdom is concerned only about 5-star hotels and designer fashions, I doubt she has been out and about in rural Greece, where the lack of amenities that exist in other European countries is so evident.

StCirq my dear, I can show you rural places in Italy, Spain and Greece that are all alike and very basic - there is no difference. All three countries have similar climates so farms of similar sizes have virtually identical conditions.

Rural isn't my thing, nothing to see except fields isn't me!

Well whether you're saying Greece IS a third world country or is LIKE a third world country compared to France or Italy I think you're wrong. And it doesn't come down to Gucci stores either, nor down to Kolonaki.
Greece (and especially Athens and Thessaloniki) have sophistication. It may be that the country is poorer, the economy not as strong, the language not as widely spoken, but the actual quality of living is high. What you get for your money living there. I will admit that it is easy as a tourist to get a bad deal (or rather, a very touristy deal) if you haven't researched the area, but then again I found the same thing in Sorrento which was incredibly touristy yet I don't tell people not to visit the Amalfi coast on that basis.
Anyway, I think the real question here is what rkkwan and TopMan have been pointing out: 3 different threads on the relative merits of Greece by somebody who's never posted before?

Well, regardless of whether Gucci is over, it's still a brand when it comes to the designer category. I mean, we can level charges against all the designer brands. Burberry is so over. So is LV. So is Prada. So is Kate Spade. So is Jack Spade. So is (take your favorite brand). What gives?

I mean, these things come and go. Tom Ford has left, true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the brand has died or can't be revived. Your country's Burberry, for example, has a rather different look from its look ten years ago, say.

All I mean to suggest is that one has far more choices in London than in Athens's Kolonaki. This is hardly a controversial suggestion (I'd like to think, but maybe you think otherwise).

Nana, how is your report coming? Did you ever expect to start a cat fight?
For the record, Greece is much different than the other countries you mention. It does compare well to Sicily which is part of Italy.

Regarding whether Greece is third-world (no, I never claimed so), I do wish to make the following observations:

1. That it's not a great power in the modern era.

2. That one can be objective and compare gross domestic products across countries. I'm sure that France, England, Germany will come out ahead in that category. Probably even Italy. Greece is not a G-7 country.

I don't see anything controversial about 1. and 2. and I don't see why it should be controversial to admit that Greece is not France or Italy or Germany. It simply isn't, regardless of how you slice it.

I mainly buy from up and coming designers rather than the more well established ones. Siv Stodal produces small but wearable collections. The Antwerp six aren't over yet.

As for Burberry, I've never ever been a fan. Its latest prosorum collection does have identity and stands up well in its own right, but they're still having a hard time shaking off that raincoat image.

I found fabulous upmarket delicatessens in Kolonaki stocked with Krug and Cristal (harder to find in London), and they even have a jewellery shop just for men, something which London doesn't have! Anyway, we digress, I'll agree to disagree!

Well m_kingdom, if I buy any Anne Demeulemeester, I'll be sure to give it to you. :-) The space in Antwerp (by the art museum) is pretty stunning, but the clothes are not my cuppatea.

But I'm willing to bet that it must be easier to buy the Antwerp Six in London than in Athens, no?

I can't believe people are judging a country by it's 'designer stores' - you are joking (I hope). When experiencing the culture and environment of a foreign country, 'designer shops' and tacky gift shops are of no consequence to me. A pair of Italian shoes are the same if you buy them in Athens, Rome, or Hoboken New Jersey. Locally made articles are of course a lot more interesting.
OK - I'll get off my soapbox now :-)

Bob, dont tell the Sicilians that.. They dont considers themselves Italians anyway!!:)

Ah zootsi, you don't know what you're missing. :-)

Of course I'm partly jesting, but just partly. There're so many ways to compare countries. Comparing designer stores (or designers) is one. I don't necessarily see why that's invalid. Comparing economic prowess is another. Comparing infrastructure, yet another. Comparing flora and fauna and landscapes, yet another. Comparing food and culture, yet another.

In other words, what's of consequence to you maybe of no consequence to another. As they say, one man's meat is another's poison. Still I disagree that Kolonaki is to be preferred to Bond Street or Mayfair.

I don't agree that Greece is like a third-world country when compared to the rest of Europe. Did you know that Greece leads Europe in the consumption of soap? I was astonished at how clean the Greek people were, even in the most desolate places.

Athenians are very chic, indeed. You can find world-class clothing boutiques in Athens, as well as gorjus :) jewelry.

I also found the Greeks to be extremely warm and friendly.

I love Greece and would take a holiday there in a heartbeat.

But, TG, you haven't compared it to Italy, Spain or France.

It is far easier to purchase any of the Antwerp six in London, but I did manage to buy some Dries Van Noten in Athens (ever so slightly cheaper there). Furthermore, I bought several items from Athenian designers, and some local jewellery too - none of these items could be purchased in London!

Thank you very much for your interesting postings. Although i don't agree that Greece is "like" a 3rd-world country i recognize that it lacks infastructure when compared to other European countries.
I came across a very interesting article the other day on Conde Nast Traveler stating that "whether the transportation projects, hotel renovations, and general refurbishing get done in time for the Olympic Games or not, a major beneficiary for decades to come will be the visitor". I feel that those projects and construction work will help to turn things around. What is your opinion?

The greatest charm of Greece, for me, is that it continues to be itself. When I shop for gifts to bring home, I can find items unique to the country. When I want to stop for something to eat, I don't have to fight my way past 30 Starbucks or Burger Kings to get something I couldn't find on a highway near home.
Is the infrastructure a little shaky? Yes. The roads resemble Ireland more than England. One might wish for more modern plumbing sometimes. I haven't been to Athens in several years -- and preparations for the Olympics may have made a difference -- but I remember my distress at finding my fine hotel with its glorious views of the Parthenon and the Temple of the Athenian Zeus completely surrounded by motorcycle shops and car rental agencies.
But the greatest difference for me is that the Greek alphabet is not the same as the one used by the Americas and most European nations. In Italy, Spain or Germany I could make a stab at what the street signs meant; in Greece -- on those occasions where there were no English translations -- I was truly lost.

I agree with Bob. Greece has a similar feel to Sicily in all the best ways. Stunning scenery, the most friendly people and generous people and a rich history. Forget the glitz.

And I agree with Toni - the friendliest and most generous people we met in Europe were in Greece - one very hot day our car needed some attention - the mechanic brought us cold delicious lemonade from nearby shop and when we tried to pay he refused "ees geeft". I loved it in Thessaloniki when a girl in a restaurant sat there with her pet rat on her head - no-one batted an eyelid! There'd be hell to pay if someone tried to do that home here in Australia. And the best looking man I have ever seen in my life is in the booking office for the Corfu ferry!

I think you'll find that Italy, France and Spain are all in the depths of misery at the moment, whereas Greece is overcome with elation and optimism. (I'm referring of course to Euro 2004!)

Poli Kala Hellas!!!

=:)

I was going to post some of the internet jokes floating around after England got knocked out. But I suppose I'd better not.

How do you say "come on Greece" in Greek?

Sheila:

"Ela Elada"