In my dictionary (American Heritage 2nd College Edition) it is defined in the first sense as *Of good upbringing; well-mannered*. Isn't that what most readers would think it meant? What were you thinking -- that it had something to do with test tube experiments of a superior race of diners?

You are all missing a simple point. it varies, we all do it differently, whether to use the knife to cut your salad, where to put the napkin when leaving but returning to the dining room area. Relax, do as I do, when I'm not sure I always ask my waiter or hostess what is proper., and they are always pleased that I asked.

Mavis, thank you for the link. However, although I give kudos to Ms. Rochefort for her apparent success as a writer, I think she takes Paris, and especially Parisiennes, a little too seriously.

I suppose people will condemn my attitude, but if people all around me are rude enough to smoke all through a delicious meal so that the rest of us can't enjoy our time at the table, I'm not going to worry excessively if my left hand isn't properly holding a knife, if I blow on hot soup, if I discretely cut my salad, etc. Table manners should mean being cognizant of those around you and not ruining someone else's meal. There, I've said my piece! Thank you!

The whole time I lived in France as a student I never had fruit for dessert because I could not master the art of peeling an apple or orange with fork and knife (no fingers). And I could not believe the artful way they can eat all the chicken, leaving only the bones, looking as if they had been parched in the desert. It truly is an art.

Well...The issue with cutting the salad is simple. Salad is served with an acid sauce (vinegar). It tarnished the silver cuttlery (good manners were defined by upper classes..those wouldn't eat with something else). Tarnished spots were much more obvious on the side of a knive than on a fork ( and beside, you have to use something to eat the said salad).<BR><BR>So, except if you're using silver cuttlery, not cutting salad makes no sense. But as usual, habbits die hard.

Sue,<BR><BR>If your story is genuine, you obviously weren't living with an average french family...

clairo, student restaurants, believe it or not (and the occasional real one).

Rita: I hate absolutely hate smoke. It has caused me headaches and other discomfort since decades before it ever became socially acceptable to complain about second-hand smoke. I choose restaurants partly bsed on smoke levels and the absence of smokers near the vacant tables available to me.<BR><BR>HOWEVER, the French are not any more rude than Americans or anyone else because they smoke in restaurants. People do it in the US, too, except where it's forbidden (and even sometimes where it is). Americans, in fact, have MORE reason to be fully aware that their smoking is making nearby nonsmokers miserable, if not actually sick, and preventing them from enjoying their meal, since these matters are discussed more openly here. Therefore, smoking in France is LESS a matter of discourtesy than it is in the US.<BR><BR>France (specifically the town of St. R&eacute;my) is actually the only place I've ever been where a stranger ever offered to stop smoking for a while because it bothered me. I was approaching the end of a lunch in a tiny restaurant in St. Remy when a couple was seated at the table next to mine and started smoking--a lot. I soon became extremely uncomfortable with symptoms that are not appealing to describe here, and quietly told the waitress that I'd need to cut the meal short and pay my bill because I couldn't remain near the smoke any longer. My neighbors apparently overheard and offered to stop. I told them I'd be leaving very soon anyway. But I do think thatit's interesting that this happened in France and has never happened in the US.<BR><BR>P.S. The French rudeness thing is a myth. (But I still hate smoke!)

Where does the dog sit at the table? On your right or left?

HeeHeeHeeHee

HONEY, THAT´S NOT FRENCH ETIQUETTE, THAT´S CALLED GOOD MANERS EVERYWHERE -AT LEAST, IN MY CIVILIZED EUROPE...

xxx<BR><BR>YEAH....BUT WHERE DOES THE DOG SIT?<BR><BR><BR>

I just got back from Paris and did not experience any smoking problems at all. I wasn't even trying. No one smoked in the restaurants I went to and even the jazz club we visited had a no-smoking sign posted on the wall.<BR><BR>We did see a gentlemen with a tiny jack-russell-looking dog sitting on his lap while he was eating lunch. The poor little fellow had his ears perked up staring at that plate hoping for a morsel I'm sure. I've never seen such well-mannered dogs as I have in Europe.<BR><BR>I also never felt any pressure about where to put my bread or cleaning my plate. Everyone was gracious. I was amazed though at the professionalism and precision of the waiters in the restaurants we visited. Maybe some would consider it rude, but it was skill on their part. Much better than "Hi my name is Chad and I'll be your server today."

Sue<BR><BR>Thanks for the info. Did you see dog crap everywhere like people have been reporting on these boards?

Clairobscur<BR><BR>Interesting anecdote about the salad dressing and the tarnished knives, but then what about meat dishes served with tomato sauces,which are also acidic? Or am I trying to make etiquette too logical?

One more thing which has not been mentioned yet:<BR>Do not speak while you still have food in your mouth. Wait to finish your food and then speak.<BR>Believe it or not, I see some Americans doing it every day, and I really think that it is digusting.

Chad is a waiter now? Oh that's right, I guess he lost his former job: hanging from ballots in Florida. :)<BR><BR>Regarding the comments about smoking... while I'm generally personally OK with smoke in places like restaurants -- as opposed to clubs or bars where the saturation level is usually much higher -- I also realize a lot of other people aren't, and that doesn't change the fact that, IMO, smoking in a restaurant where other people are eating is simply bad manners. <BR><BR>What's interesting, though, is how the bad manners focus has been shifted, in an almost Orwellian sense, by smokers, to non-smokers, claiming that it's rude for non-smokers to complain about smoking, that it's bad manners to complain about something that demonstrates far worse manners. It's somewhat akin to a mugger chastising a person he's just mugged for "whining" about it.

No clue about tomato sauce, but two guesses :<BR><BR>-Salad was basically served at some point during all meals, hence was much more common than tomato sauce, so certainly a more important issue<BR><BR>-Tomato sauce is certainly much less acidic than vinegar

Wilcox,<BR>I didn't see much dog poop. In fact, every morning in the St. Germain area men in green outfits were sweeping the streets of debris. The sidewalks were wet also which made me think someone hosed them down every morning. I did see one dog pooping in the street near the curb between two cars. The dogs I saw were very small so the poops were very small.