Collioure & St. Remy or Arles?
 

Thank you to the many of you who have been helping me plan this trip so far - the information and advice have been wonderful!

Our itinerary is as follows:

Paris: 4 nights (5 for half of our foursome), flight to Barcelona
Barcelona: 3 nights, train to Collioure
Collioure: 2 or 3 nights, train to Arles or Avignon TGV, rent car
St. Remy or Arles: 3 or 4 nights, train or drive to Beaune/Dijon
Dijon/Beaune: 2 nights, train from Dijon to CDG, then home

We will be arriving at Collioure on a Sunday, and we need to decide if we should stay 2 or 3 nights (LarryJ has me leaning toward 3.) If we spend 3 nights in Collioure, then we would miss the Wednesday morning markets in either St. Remy or Arles, which sound like fun. (We would arrive into either Avignon or Arles just after 10 AM and then need to rent a car.) We also have to decide which town would be best as a base in Provence.

For all of you familiar with these areas, what are your thoughts with respect to:

1. 2 nights in Collioure and 4 in Provence or 3 nights in each?

2. Arles or St. Remy as a base town?

There seem to be differing opinions on St. Remy. I have seen it described as a great base if you have a car, and others say it is not so central and there is not much there. Arles seems central, though doesn't appear to be so charming. Avignon sounds difficult to get in and out of as a base, and we will have already spent a week in large cities.

From what I've read so far, some places in Provence that we might want to visit are: Arles, Pont du Gard, Les Baux, Isle-sur-la Sorgue or other Luberon Hill town, Aix-en-Provence.

This trip is short and will just provide us with a sample of the areas, so suggestions of what to include or leave out and how to divide up the days are welcome.

Thanks again!

I'd go with the two-nights-in-Collioure plan so you don't miss the market in Arles. But think aboutg staying somewhere outside Arles, perhaps Fontvielle instead of St-Rémy, so you don't have to navigate into and out of that city whenever you want to go somewhere else.

Collioure is lovely,but 2 nights there is sufficient, and it will be fun to go to one of the Wednesday markets.

St-Rémy is a fairly big town - can't understand people saying there's "not much there." Ther are loads of stores and cafés and restaurants and it's usually bustling. I agree you probably don't want to stay IN Arles - traffic there seems to be getting worse and worse each year. But traffic in St-Rémy these days can be pretty bad too. Fontvielle would be a good choice, as would be Maussane.

Any of the towns mentioned, St Remy , Maussane, Fontvielle and I'll add Eygalieres are fine to visit the gard and Isle sur-la-Sorgue. We day day trips to all these places from Eygalieres and we visit the Luberon to our favorite villages like Lourmarin, Bonnieux, and Saignon. If you like quiet villages, I'd suggest Fontvielle and Eygalieres. Maussane is livlier and Arles and St Remy much bigger with more to do. IMHO, St Remy, Is better to stay than in Arles and easier to get around.

My opinion is that St. Remy is geographically quite central with a good choice of hotels in the nearby countryside. However, I find the town itself to be the least interesting of all the places you list. (With the exception of the monastery outside of the town where Van Gogh convalesced). I was there in March and St. Remy was VERY QUIET. Still, that's no reason not to stay near there, as you'll be doing day trips all around and the surrounding countryside is lovely. If I remember correctly, Arles is sort of off in it's own corner geographically, so maybe not a practical choice if you plan to base out of there much of the time. Of the actual towns you mention, Aix is by far my favorite, but also maybe not the practical choice for a "hub."

There are 50 times more "things" to do in Provence (with a car), than there are to do in Collioure (without a car). IMO, Collioure is about a 1/2 day visit - unless you want to lay in the sun for a day. I would only stay 1 night there, assuming you don't arrive late in the day from Barcelona.

There are also 30 times more things to do in Barcelona than in Collioure. I would be bored in Collioure for 3 days without a car.

St Remy would be my choice of a place to base for a first timer, although I actually prefer the Luberon. I find St Remy to be more charming than Fontvielle. I prefer it over Arles because it's more centrally located & easier to get in/out.

Stu Dudley

Visited Coulliore/Port Vendres in 10/5 as a cruise ship port. Saw a lot of both towns, had lunch, visited the fish market, wine shops, did some tastings and used the tram all in about 6 hours. The towns were charming but not for 2-3 days.

rainbow007,

Three years ago we spent nine days in Arles. We stayed at Hotel Le Calendal. We thought it was a perfect spot to base for day trips into La Camargue, St. Remy, Isle Sur la Sorgue, Les Baux. There was always something to do in Arles. Just hanging out in town or walking around was fun. The hotel arranged for parking in a nearby parking structure. We had no problems getting in and out of town.

Last year we spent six nights just outside the little village of Maussane at Moulin de Greoux. This was more laid back trip which is exactly what we wanted. It provided easy access to St. Remy, Uzes and even the Luberon for day trips.

If you are looking for a little more activity I would suggest staying in Arles. Also there are several good value hotels. St Remy is smaller, not as much hustle and bustle. To me it's a coin flip. You will have a great time wherever you stay.
JoeG

I second the Calendal should you choose Arles.
In Collioure, I suggest the Casa Pairal.

I also loved the Calendal! Wasn't the garden nice??

Here's what I did: trained from Paris to Avignon from where I took a bus to Arles. Spent a couple of nights there and did a day trip to Aix (through Marseille by train). Rented my car upon leaving Arles and went to St. Remy (at the Chateau Roussan which I LOVED although some seem to be that it's dirty--see the website; it's as good as it looks). I used that as a base for trips to L'isle sur sorgue, Avignon, Les Baux, and Menerbes/Bonnieux.

So you really don't have to rent a car before Arles. That way, you too can stay at the Calendal!

I wouldn't call it dirty either, at least when I was there, I called it shabby chic!!!

It was definitely "shabby chic." Absolute Provencal authenticity.

Though I dearly enjoyed Collioure, it's definitely not worth more than 2 nights without a car. In fact, there's not a full day's activities to do there, unless you are looking for a relaxed day of strolling, shopping and going to the beach. I do think the evening there is quite special, but would not give up more time in Provence to stay in Collioure.
Paule

Aix is definetely "the hub". St Remy is quiet, only filled with tourists. Too far from the sea. Stay in Aix, and go to St Remy/Les Baux for the day. Aix's got vibe, students, restaurants and is a beatiful town. Arles is interesting but far from the rest. You'd rather choose a day on the coast and see "les calanques de Marseille", those little fjords on the seaside between Marseille and Cassis. Will give you a different experience than the english talking tourists markets of L'Isle sur la Sorgue and St Remy.

Do you definitely want to be in a city? Sometimes a centrally located base in the country allows you to reach a variety of towns without dealing with traffic. If you might enjoy a farm, Mas de la Christine in Maillane is centrally located (near Arles, Les Baux, St. Remy) and absolutely delightful. And Maillane has at least one fabulous restaurant for dinner.

"English talking tourist markets of L'isle sur la Sorgue."

Oh my! I can't imagine how anyone can categorize Provence's most celebrated market in this way. It is anything but! And the cafes along the canal are wonderful, as is the town's church. Don't miss any of it.

And while I prefer Aix to any of Provence's other towns, it is definitely not central.

I'm always amazed about how much negitivity there is by someone's choice. If I had a great meal and had excellant service someone will say how terrible the food was and they were ignored. Everyone has theor own experience and tastes. You may not want to spend a few days but another one might. Collioure is relatively unspoiled, it has a castle, a pretty seaside church, a market square with cafés, and no desire to become another St Tropez. Painted by Picasso, Matisse but too bad not shown there. It's definatelty not a place for one looking for a night life but forsomeone who wants a few days of a place away from casinos, golf, and other activities it's fine. Aix is a huge student town and the most beatiful main street dotted with moss fontaines. I like Isle and stop for lunch and to browse the brocantes. Your vacation is not mine. My advise is to get a book that tells you about each location and it will direct you to what you expect. Happy travels.

>>And while I prefer Aix to any of Provence's other towns, it is definitely not central.<<

I'll second that. If you stay there, you will be driving a lot more to most of Provence's top sites.

Stu Dudley

Guy where do you live ?
I am not saying L'Isle sur la Sorgue is not nice. I know very well the place as I go there often. I am just saying that St Remy, l'Isle s.LS and Les Baux is a guidebook route and not a broad vision of Provence and that the coast is worth 10 times a market.
Market at L'Isle has very nice antiques but at least 50% more expensive than any other place.
Market at St Remy is crap ("cheap" paintings) but the town is lovely.

Now this is my local opinion. I'll drop it and leave this thread.

>>Guy where do you live ?<<

Good point! I've lived on/very near the coast of California for over 50 years. We have no markets here like the ones in Provence - so while in Provence, we spend more time at the markets than we spend on the coast.

Agree that you will hear lots of American English in l'Isle sur la Sorgue - especially as the day goes on and more day-trippers arrive. Same with the St Remy market. Not so much at the Bedoin one. If you want to hear less English at the l'Isle sur la Sorgue market, go earlier - get there by nine.

There is less English at the Carpentras market - which is better for everything (IMO) except antiques.

Stu Dudley

benjinho-I'd like to apologize for getting all opinionated and snippy above. I hate when others do it on this forum, and there's really no excuse.

I think Stu is right. What a local looks down on is sometimes exactly what the traveler has come to experience. I live in Florida and can't imagine spending a lot of money to come sit on the beach. But if I lived in cold weather half the year, I might want to do just that...This local/tourist polarity be a good idea for a thread!

That should be "come in order to experience" and "might be a good idea for a thread."

Hi Rainbow. On our first trip to Provence ten years ago we used Arles as our base, and this past summer we spent a week in St Remy. Arles will always be our first experience and hold a special feeling for us, - but I think St Remy would make a better base, particulary with a rental car. I'm also with Stu on preferring the Luberon as a base. As for Aix - love it, but it is not a good base area.

If it's my trip, I skip Collioure and go straight to Provence. Heck, I'd probably skip Burgundy as well, but I do understand the desire to see more places. And you've picked some great ones.

bookmark

Thanks Stu and Guy.
Yep I'm sure that Isle s/la Sorgue is definetely a new experience just like we frenchies get excited by Miami South Beach or old wonderwomen on Venice.
Anyway, St Remy and Aix are both towns that have to be visited.
To come back on the sea part, if you have not done the boat trip from Cassis, i would like to emphasize on it : definetely different from large US beaches (yeah of course, no running sexy and healthy women in red bathing suit but we have our own nice women on the beach ;o). Look at the following link to see les calanques (Seacost off Cassis)
http://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-golli...s/en_vau_1.jpg

Cheers

I truly appreciate ALL of your opinions and experiences. I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I now have 7 guide books (1 Barcelona and 6 France or specific parts of France), and I have read most of the pages that seem relevant to our trip many times. Somehow, they don't paint a very complete picture for me. Many of the smaller cities and towns are barely mentioned. Maybe I'm having a difficult time because I want to plan an amazing trip that meets all of my travel companions’ expectations.

Whatever the case, the flavors and morsels of information that all of you are providing is what I'm looking for. It’s great to hear from people that travel to the area often like Stu Dudley -- you have the kind of practical advice that makes for a much better trip and a tremendous amount of detailed knowledge. It’s also great to hear from people who have only been to the area only once or twice -- maybe our impressions will be similar to yours. And it’s great to hear from people like Benjinho who make me think about things I had not even considered. (That picture blew me away!)

Your advice and viewpoints are helping me to find out what would be a good fit for us. Maybe 2 nights in Collioure, and use the extra day in the Provence area to fit in that boat trip to les calanques? Not sure, but I’m busy looking into many of your suggestions – others welcome.

Thanks!
Rainbow

Yes 2 nights in Collioure, no more. Lovely place, Banyuls nearby is a nice scenic drive. If you go to Cassis, you will be able to compare them. With St Tropez (which is radically different), they probably are the 3 nicest fish harbour on the Mediteranean Sea.

Cassis is what St Tropez was like long ago but getting there. At one time it was a favorite of the Fauvre painters. But it grew from a coral-fishing village to chic and artsy crafty. Taking a boat ride by the calanques is a must, those white cliffs between Cassis and Marseille. The cafés in the port are fun. I tasted my first fresh out of the shell sea urchins there.

>>Yes 2 nights in Collioure, no more. Lovely place, Banyuls nearby is a nice scenic drive.<<

Benjinho,

Rainbow will not have a car in Collioure - so she won't be able to take that lovely drive to Baynuls & see the grape vines on the very steep hills. Do you still recommend 2 days there, and 4 days in Provence, or do you think 1 day is enough - which gives her 5 nights/4 days in Provence??

I would only stay 1 night in the Burgundy area - in Dijon (take the train). That would give you 6 nights (5 days) in Provence which would allow you to spend a day doing the Cassis stuff.

Stu Dudley

>>Do you still recommend 2 days there, and 4 days in Provence, or do you think 1 day is enough - which gives her 5 nights/4 days in Provence??<<

To be consistent with myself, that should read:
Do you still recommend 2 nights/1 1/2 days there, and 4 nights/3 days in Provence, or 1 night/1/2 day there - which gives her 5 nights/4 days in Provence?

Stu Dudley

too bad you can't make this year a Provence only to visit arles, stay in the Alpiles to see that part and on to the Luberon for those villages. There is so much to see in both area but if you touch and go you can't get a good impression. And those are only a part of Provence.

Personally, I would skip Collioure entirely and head to Provence, but if you want to visit Collioure, this schedule would work:

Leave Barcelona at 8:00am from Sants, or a little later from the Passage Grazia station (we got on there - closer to the center of town). Arrive in Collioure at 11:00am. Stay overnight, and next day leave Collioure at 12:45 and arrive in Avignon Center at 4:00pm. This would give you one full day in Collioure and you will arrive in Avignon with enough time left in the day to do something.

Leave Avignon TGV at 12:40, and arrive in Dijon at 3:30 just as shops open up after lunch.

Leave at 6:30 the next morning and arrrive at CDG at 8:20 for your flight home.

Stu Dudley

Good morning! Thanks, Stu, for taking a look at the logistics of this trip. Based on the many recommendations, I thought I’d try to outline an itinerary that incorporates suggestions from postings/replies and my notes from guide books.

For now, I’m going with 2 nights in Collioure because I think we will need a “vacation from our vacation” at that point, after 8 days in Paris and Barcelona. If we need to shave a day off somewhere to add to the Provence part of our trip, I’d rather subtract one day from Beaune/Dijon (although I was looking forward to some wine tastings and maybe a tour).

I’ll show the Provence portion day by day, because that is the part that involves driving, and I’m not sure if the activities and travel times are reasonable. Also, this itinerary assumes we will stay in St. Remy within walking distance of the town.

Day 1 (Saturday) Arrive Paris (2 of foursome arrive on Sun.)
Hotel in 6e.
Visit Lourve, Orsay Museum, Eiffel Tower, walk around historic center (Sainte-Chapelle, Notre-Dame), Arc de Triomphe, market streets (rue de Buci, rue Mouffetard or rue Cler) picnic riverside, stroll Luxembourg Garden, nighttime boat trip on Seine, day trip via train to Palace of Versailles.
Depart Paris Thursday, flight from Orly at 10:30

Day 6 (Thursday) Arrive in Barcelona El Prat at 12:10
Hotel – (budget-minded in L’Eixample?)
Stroll Ramblas, visit Sagrada Familia, other sites? (have not read much about Barcelona yet).
Depart Barcelona Sunday, train from Sants (need to check stations and schedules)

Day 9 (Sunday) Arrive Collioure train station
Relax, stroll around town, enjoy views, car rental possible in town at Renault garage if we want to take drive.
Depart Collioure Tuesday, train to Avignon at 12:45 (center or TGV? Cars at TGV?)

Day 11 (Tuesday) Arrive Avignon around 16:00, rent car, drive to St. Remy, check-in at hotel, drive to Les Baux for stroll and dinner.

Day 12 (Wednesday) Early walk to St. Remy market, then Luberon Hill town drive, lunch and dinner along the way, return to St. Remy.

Day 13 (Thursday) Early to Aix-en-Provence for coffee, pastry and stroll along cours Mirabeau, on to Cassis for lunch, boat trip to les calanques (have not found boat information yet – times, length of trips?), dinner in Cassis or return to St. Remy for dinner?

Day 14 (Friday) Early to Arles to explore, lunch in Arles and maybe more exploration, on to Pont du Gard (better in afternoon or in evening for light show?), dinner near Pont du Gard or St. Remy?

Day 15 (Saturday) Depart St. Remy for Beaune (with four people, is driving easier and less expensive, any scenic drives?), lunch in Beaune, then March aux Vins wine tasting, maybe a wine tour, drive to Dijon and turn in car, check-in Dijon hotel.

Day 16 (Sunday) stroll around Dijon, maybe Musee des Beaux Arts, travel companions to have lunch or dinner with their friends in Dijon.

Day 17 (Monday) Leave Dijon station at 6:30, arrive CDG at 8:20 for flight home.

This is the first time I’ve tried to put it all together – let me know what you think!

Thanks,
Rainbow

bookmarking

>>(center or TGV? Cars at TGV?)<<

I think the train from Collioure goes to the city center train station. We've rented many cars at the TGV station.

You may not make it to Beaune for lunch.

Did you know that there is wine tasting in Provence? Read the itinerary I sent you. Chateauneuf du Papes makes pretty good wine, as does Gigondas. The area around Gigondas is very scenic - one of my favorite regions.

Most, if not all, the shops will most likely be closed in Dijon on Sunday. See if you can get a hold of Coco to verify this - she lives there.

Stu Dudley

Rainbow,
The TVG station in avignon is a modern facility with easy access to the rental car companies. They are all grouped together similar to how they are set up at newer airports in the states. it's a very short walk from the station.

Uzes is a town close to Pont du Gard with a bunch shops and dining choices.

I would consider skipping Aix if you want to spend any time at all in Cassis.

JoeG

Still researching all the Provence towns for accomodations.Bookmarking this.
More posssibilities in Arles or St Remy?
Stu,where is the itinerary I read about?
Thanks,Nono

I may have mentioned this already, but Mas de la Christine (see www.masdelachristine.com/index_us.htm) is a wonderful B&B centrally located near Arles and St. Remy. Great if you like sheep and a bucolic setting that's still extremely convenient. I also stayed in Arles at the Forum Hotel, right on the Place du Forum, which I enjoyed (although driving there is pretty wild) -- great staff!

In Arles, I've stayed at the Calenal, and the Nord Pinus.
In St Remy, in townat at L'Hotel, Les Ateliers De l'image