<i> The 27% of 'over the counter' fraud you refer to will go down because it will become harder to do.
</i>

Then how can it be the principal problem as you originally claimed: "Online fraud is not the problem, cloning a magnetic strip card and forging the signature is the problem."?

Figures would be more interesting. What is the current cost of "over the counter" fraud compared to the increased cost (you agree to that) of on-line fraud, to which one adds the one-time change-over and the apparently increased cost of maintaining the system. The banks will never tell, but if there is no distinct advantage to the chip&pin system for the banks, they will not rush into changing the system.

My understanding is that fraud was not the reason for the divergent systems, but had to do with a centralized and de-centralized system in terms of identification and data processing when making a purchase.

<i>
Here is what the OP asked about, "Chip and pin credit card 2015 question" and that is in reference to travel in Europe in 2015. Get it?</i>

I can only speak of my experience in 2014, which I have done. Problems with a non-chip card have been minimal for me. I guess only those who have traveled in Europe in the last two months are qualified to comment.

I'm always sorry when a forum on travel becomes contentious. There is no reason for that at any time. As far as the OP, without second guessing or disputing anybody else's thoughts on this, the answer is you probably don't absolutely need a chip and pin card in most places that see a lot of tourists as of now. The USA is slowly, ever so slowly , issuing cards with the chip which will alleviate a good deal of the problems. But pure chip and pin cards are not all that available in the USA and may never be. Rather the USA is pursuing a program of making the primary form of card verification chip and signature. The card networks are trying to ensure these cards will work virtually anywhere a chip and pin card will work. How this will finally shake out, nobody knows.

I hope that satisfies everybody because without getting highly technical, that's the best we or anybody can do as of today.

Xyz123. Just hit the yellow triangle and report these posts to the mods. Some posters like to agitate. Report them.

We are in France right now and found that not one of our four cc's would work in toll booths, all unmanned, nor would they work at paid parking lots, all unmanned. All the newest "international" cards with chips AMX , 2 citi banks and a chase black card. Make sure you have change.

Non of my previous ATM cards had a chip but I just received a replacement ATM card that has one... wondering if that would work in these situations?

We were in Italy last month. Our regular credit cards worked for shop purchases, restaurant food, admissions, hotels, etc. Our ATM card worked to withdraw cash. But when we bought train tickets from the automated machines, only our true chip and PIN credit card from USAA worked! We traveled on 16 trains and really used that PIN.

If you knew that you would never need to make a transaction at an un-maned machine, I think that you could get by perfectly well with your regular credit cards, but, because of the spontaneous way we travel, I would not have been happy without that PIN, and no matter what the bank rep says, a shiney little chip on the front of a card isn't reassuring to me.

What's the difference between a "regular" credit card and another kind of credit card?

Just got back from France and between my sister and me, we used 2 different credit union Visa chip and pin cards to pay for most things. Some merchants thought we might get a pin request simply by the look of our cards, there is no account number on the front. They handed over their machine, but "signature" kept coming up on the screen. Every merchant was able to turn the transaction into one that required a signature on a receipt with no problem, and the receipt came from the same machine that read the card. We used our cards a lot, at hotels, restaurants, shopping, gas, etc. Not one merchant machine asked for a pin. I was actually glad, because I forgot my pin, and I accidentally stopped carrying the reminder that I created.

In a France toll booth near the Swiss border, I accidentally drove into a lane with a machine only. There were no signs of the man with the extended arm anywhere, so it was impossible to see which booth had a human being in it until you were right on top of it. Crazy. I was prepared to pay with cash, but I couldn't find any place on the machine to insert it. After awhile, I decided the machine had to be credit cards only. So my sister quickly handed me her Visa chip and pin, and I slid it into the credit card port. Within a second, the gate opened. I took the card and off we drove. No reciept, no digital readout, no pin, no signature, not a single piece of evidence to suggest that a charge took place and what was the amount of the charge. The only evidence we had was the gate opened.

After we got back, my sister checked her account online, and sure enough, the toll charge was there for the amount we expected. I know the French tolls are owned by different companies, so I wouldn't expect our recent experience to happen in every toll booth, but what happened to us was a surprise.

My daughter is in northern europe right now, and her magnetic credit card works in very few places in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands or Belgium. She will find out if it works in Great Britain and Ireland soon. Right now she is depleting her checking and savings accounts using the debit card in ATM machines. Just saying.

>>her magnetic credit card works in very few places in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands or Belgium.<<

I don't know about Scandinavia - but I used my mag stripe credit cards in countless places in Belgium and the Netherlands just two months ago. Probably 30 times and never once did they not work.

Just got back from France and our Chase chip and signature card worked everywhere --restaurants, hotels, shops, including (to our surprise) unmanned toll booths and parking machines. We did not try to use it for purchasing train tickets from automated machines.

A chip and pin card is a must if you want to use Paris metro ticket machines or SNCF ticket machines. American chip and signature cards will not work in unattended machines. There are almost no American banks issuing chip and pin cards but you can get the"Barclayscard Arrival +" that functions as a chip and signature card in USA but in Europe it will also function as a chip and pin if need be. This card has an annual fee of $89 after first year free. There is also a "Barclayscard Arrival" card that has no annual fee but will not function as chip and pin as the + version. One poster above says his Chase card is chip and pin but that is not true. I bank with Chase and they have no chip and pin cards only chip and signature. Strangely Wal-Mart has a chip and pin card issued through Synchrony Financial also but if you apply for it Wal-Mart will determine whether to give you that card or their own Wal-Mart no chip and pin card. Then if you don't get the chip and pin card you wanted you will have the hassle of canceling the card. I am not interested in applying for something and not knowing what I will get.

Unless something has changed since my last trip, my American US Bank Visa chip and signature card has always worked fine in the unattended machines in the Métros in both Paris and Lyon, as well as Transilien machines, some parking garages, one unattended gas pump at a Leclerc in Gaillac, and some toll booths.

>>A chip and pin card is a must if you want to use Paris metro ticket machines or SNCF ticket machines. American chip and signature cards will not work in unattended machines.<<

Not true IME

Oh well, what do I know. I only live in Paris. Try your chip and signature card next time in Paris and let me know if a genie jumps out of the machine with a pen for you to sign.

Larry...I have never had a problem using a US credit card with an emv chip at any metro machine. If the card is signature preferred, it completes the transaction without asking for any other verification. There were problems until recently in using the sncf (the abbreviation for the French National Railroad) machines at CDG and one was forced to use the personneled window but that has recently changed and now all American cards, at least those with an emv chip, will work. As of 01 July 2015, rejection of a chip card lacking a pin will be contrary to the credit card network regs.

BTW in answer to an above post, Barclaybank USA is now issuing the annual fee free arrival card with an emv chip and like its $89 cousin is signature preferred with pin capabilities. Finally, First Tech FCU is now offering a pin preferred card for those who feel they must have a pin preferred card. Go to their website for information.

Other than that, little has changed since the last posts on this subject.

>>Oh well, what do I know. I only live in Paris. Try your chip and signature card next time in Paris and let me know if a genie jumps out of the machine with a pen for you to sign.<<

Never saw a genie -- did get my tix though . . .

<i>A chip and pin card is a must if you want to use Paris metro ticket machines or SNCF ticket machines</i>

Unless the policy has changed, even non-chip cards have worked in some of the unattended ticket machines in the métro. Twice I purchased a <i>carnet</i> using such cards a couple of years ago.

I got a chip/pin card (with 0% foreign transaction fee!) from B of America this past winter & used it abroad this summer in France & Switzerland. I had no troubles at all. Interestingly, I was never asked for my pin #. Sometimes it just took the card. Often they did ask me to sign, which surprised me. I used it most often in grocery stores & at 2 hotels, just a few restaurants.

McLisa: >>Interestingly, I was never asked for my pin #.<<

Because it <i>isn't</i> a chip+PIN card. It is chip+signature.

"There are almost no American banks issuing chip and pin cards"

Check your options through the Andrews Federal Credit Union or United Nationals Federal Credit Union.

>>Check your options through the Andrews Federal Credit Union or United Nationals Federal Credit Union.<<

That VAST majority will not qualify to join either Andrews or the United Nations federal credit unions . . .

Really? Each only requires joining something for a nominal annual fee.

You can join UNFCU by joining an organization whose purpose is to enhance the acceptance of the UN in the USA. You can join Andrews FCU by joining some consumer finance organization. You can easily join State Department FCU and Pentagon FCU by joining some organization (incidentally you need join only once, you don't have to keep renewing membership annually. Once you're in, you're in).

You can join USAA unless you can establish some sort of relationship with the US military. You can't join US Navy FCU for the same reason. You can't join Harvard FCU which does offer a "true" chip and pin card without some sort of relationship with Harvard University.

Another FCU that offers a "true" chip and pin card is First Tech FCU which you can join if you live in certain states or join some sort of orhanization.

...should have said you can't join USAA unless you establish some sort of relationship with the US military. Mea culpa.

@ xyz -- I'm glad you clarified, and thank you for the information you so generously share on this, and other, topics. :-)

Last month we got a Capital One Quicksilver card, which is chip-and-pin, no fee, no foreign transaction fee and 1.5% cash back. It will be our main travel card.

bensky: Is that an ATM card only, or also VISA? or other?

Capital One does not offer chip and PIN, only chip and signature. And it must be a credit card since it offers a rebate.

My mistake - I checked with Capital One and the PIN only works for cash advances at an ATM - given the fees, we will try to avoid doing that. We'll take our Andrews FCU card with us as well.

For those thinking of getting a chip card from USAA, don't bother. I've been living in Europe for the past 2.5 years now and have been using my USAA C/P fairly regularly. Worked great until it expired and they issued a new card in May. Before expiry, everytime I used the card, a PIN was requested. Now it's only signature preferred with PIN as a backup. Too many merchants aren't set up for signature or not prepared (I can't count the number of times I get to the front of a queue and they don't have a pen). Touristy places are well prepared but if you're off the beaten path or purchasing items in "local" type places, you will find that many shops are not anticipating signatures. In a few cases, they outright refused to accept the card unless we could enter a PIN. I've gone round and round with USAA and they indicate they cannot change the card back to what it was. I read a quote somewhere from a Visa or MasterCard exec that explained the thought process behind going to Chip and Signature vs. Chip and Pin as being "because Americans couldn't handle the dramatic change so we have to spoon feed it to them one step at a time" (my paraphrase). In any case, now on the hunt for a true chip and pin issued from the USA. May just have to get one issued by my local bank here. Trouble is, I'm still paid in the US so transferring money can get expensive. Cheers.

I am traveling with a signature preferred card (two months so far). Mostly but not exclusively in cities. The card has not been refused, and I carry my own pen.

>>I can't count the number of times I get to the front of a queue and they don't have a pen<<

>>The card has not been refused, and I carry my own pen.<<

Yeah - that works ;)

My one and only chip (and signature) card was not refused anywhere except one ticket machine. (And I <u>always</u> have a pen)

Yeah, when travelling I carry a pen but when picking up a few groceries on my way home from work, I usually don't have one. I'm just spoiled using the PIN as it was great. But I have had merchants not even entertain me as soon as the card went in the machine and asked for a signature. The last one was the post office here in Maynooth Ireland. 40 minutes in the queue to find out they wouldn't take the card. Not happy. You'd think USAA with such close affiliation with the armed forces who are located around the world, would have a better option (ie. Chip and PIN not Chip and Signature) but they don't, not now anyway.

BTW Dublin...if it's any consolation, they are in violation of mc/visa regs and you can get a copy of them and demand to see the manager and show them these regs. At the point the signature required message is flashed, the transaction has already been approved so what the fxxx are they worried about? Your experience with this is hardly universal; unfortunately it happens once in a while.

But none of this should have been a surprise to you if you've read some of my comments regarding USAA and what it pulled with its pin preferred cards. Also, as I've said, if you want a true chip and pin card from a US financial institution, the only 2 available today are UNFCU and First Tech FCU both of which require you to join some associate organization to join and qualify for a card. But the good news is First Tech FCU does not have a foreign transaction fee which will make anything you buy with it 1% cheaper than with USAA who still has the obnoxious and what should be illegal 1% foreign transaction fee.

I don't think I qualify for First Tech unfortunately. I am employed by a company on their list but they specify a location I am not associated with. I'll contact them to see. As for UNFCU, I don't qualify. I'm only meant to be here another few months so I'll manage (although there's talk of another 6 months)....If I get extended, you can bet I'll be looking into additional options.

UNFCU allows you to join by joining an organization devoted to upholding US participation in the UN.

First Tech allowed me to join even though I don't live in the geographical area they service...I had to join some organization. I have both cards which are backup cards in case I run into a problem like you did with merchants refusing to follow their merchant agreements and not finishing chip and signature transactions. Both cards indeed function as "true" chip and pin cards and do always ask for a pin although as I said UNFCU has the obnoxious 1% ftf while First Tech does not.

"janisj"... I do indeed have a chip & PIN card. I know what I procured and what I travelled with. No need for snarkiness.



janisj on Jul 31, 15 at 2:08pm
McLisa: >>Interestingly, I was never asked for my pin #.<<

Because it isn't a chip+PIN card. It is chip+signature.

What was snarky?