Check those credit card statements carefully!
 

I just went to the Capital One website to pay my bill. As I was looking over the transactions from last week's trip to Ireland, I noticed that there were two charges from the restaurant where we had lunch on our first day. One for $75 and one for $60.

I, of course, immediately called Capital One. We think that what happened is that the smaller charge is the bill minus tip, the second with tip. Of course, restaurants do not normally put through both charges. And, in fact, we noticed that the credit card slips for most Irish restaurants didn't have a place to add a tip.

At any rate, Capital One is requesting a copy of the bill and, with a little luck, this will all be straightened out. But, check those charges!

You're right, It's always good to check those statements when the come in.

While you were over there, did you encounter merchants attempting to pull the Dynamic Currency Conversion scam on you? ((b))

The same thing happened to me last June in Toulon, France. Fortunately I had saved my credit card transaction slip so I could verify which of the two charges in the restaurant was correct. Capital One resolved everything quite expeditiously.

I really don't think there was anything the restaurants tried to pull...actually for the most part one doesn't tip in a European restaurant (note I said for the most part)....perhaps in entering the tip the clerk was unfamiliar with the process and simply entered a new transaction???

But it's always good advice to hold onto the slips and actually if you only signed one slip there is no problem as with a billing error dispute of this sort, the merchant is required to provide documentation namely a signed sale slip so it will be straightened out in a modest amount of time.

A quick update: I found my original receipt for Euro43.45. Even with tip, the lower charge is more likely the correct one. So this is beginning to look less like a mistake. Yes, they could have thought it didn't go through the first time and tried again. But why the discrepancy in amounts?

I talked to Capital One again and have been advised to send them a written explaination with a copy of the receipt, etc.

I've tried to find a website to contact the restaurant, but no luck. I'm not going to try to deal with this on the phone. I'll let Capital One handle it. Tim, it's very encouraging to hear that they handled things well for you.

And, yes, Budman, unfortunately we did encounter the DCC. In one case, as soon as I said I'd prefer the charge in Euro, the gentleman apologetically told me he'd cancel and redo it. But in the other three cases, each time they tried to convince me that the slip was just showing the amount in both currencies. Even though the slip clearly stated that we were being charged in dollars! In at least one of the cases, (when we charged dinner in the bar of the Old Ground Hotel) I believe the young woman who waited on us truly didn't understand the difference. But I have no doubt that the man behind the bar who she talked to about it, did understand. In most of these cases, it was literally just a couple of dollars difference and not worth fighting about. But it really bugs me to be put in a position where my choices are to be difficult or to be taken advantage of.

And, when I finally get my trip report together (I'm working on it in Word and will copy and paste), I will name names!

Another reason to use ATM's and pay with cash.

You've brought up another point that should be noted. At most restaurants in Europe (perhaps all of them) if you add a tip to a credit card slip it does not go to your server. It will simply go to the restaurant's general income. This is of course especially true when service is included in a bill already. If you want to leave extra in Europe you should always do so with cash!

Dick...

In all due respect, I disagree with you. There is absolutely no danger in using a credit card, even in this case, the billing error dispute procedures will quickly resolve the matter and this simply doesn't happen often...apparently what caused it was the attempt to add a tip to the credit card slip...this is basically not done in Europe like it is in North America and as noted the printed credit card receipts do not have room for adding a tip for the most part.....

But I wouldn't give up the convenience of using a credit card for any purchase on the odd chance that something untoward might happen...in 99.99% of the cases, you are covered in any event.

xy,

I agree with you that a billing error will eventually be resolved. However, any error( honest or otherwise) can tie up the credit availabiltiy on a car until resolved. for some, that could be a problem.

The reason I try to use ATM's and pay for everything in cash is to avoid the "foreign exchange" fees tacked on by most credit card companies.

I only use a credit card for something that is to be shipped.

As an added plus, many merchants and even small hotels, offer a discount for cash.

When I said the same thing happened to me in Toulon, I did NOT mean that it was because of a tip I had attempted to leave. In my case the amount of the second charge was nowhere near the amount of the correct charge and I had not left a tip. This double billing could have been intentional, but I don't know one way or the other. Save your receipts and let your credit card company resolve any disputes.

Dick, I can't disagree with you that, in the long run, you're probably better off using ATMs and cash. However, at least Capital One charges lower conversion fees than most cards. And, I have to say, the ATM fees we were charged wound up being much higher than I'd expected. So you have to take that into account as well.

Tim, it's beginning to look like ours didn't involve the tip either. As I said in the update, the lower amount was more likely the correct one (and would have included the tip). As you said, who knows whether it was intentional. But, right off-hand, it seems hard to explain the discrepancy in amounts. How does a charge of Euro 43.45 become $75 and change?

Cap,

On our last trip to Italy, I had our bank raise our daily withdrawal amount. the fee per withdrawal was $1.50

Wow, that was a good rate, Dick! I'd been told before we left that our bank would charge $3. And I had the impression that the Irish banks wouldn't charge. Well, the lowest fee we were charged was $7.56! And there's one charge of $12! I'll know more when I see the hard-copy of my statement. But I'm guessing the $12 may be the compilation of all the charges by our bank. The $7.56 must have been from the Irish bank.

Well I guess it boils down to one's own philosophy regarding this..

At home in the US, I almost never have to spend cash now...all fast food restaurants now take plastic, the grocery takes plastic, the drug stores take plastic, gasoline stations take plastic...I can hardly think of anything I buy at home where I don't use a credit card. Luckily for us in the US, there are two important rules visa and mastercard have instituted for their US merchants. The first is they cannot set up a minimum charge amount...if you want to charge $1.49 for a cheeseburger and a coke at McDonald's, you can. Secondly merchants in the United States are not allowed to surcharge for use of a credit card.

In many European countries, the UK does come to mind, government regulations prohibit the credit card companies from enforcing these consumer protection rules...British merchants can give cash discounts and can establish minimums for use of a card. But that doesn't mean whenever I am in London that I don't use my cards...I use them everywhere they are taken and Britain is a lot like the US in almost universal acceptance of cards (pubs are a notable exception..can't walk in and charge a pint although I'd love to)...cuts down on trips to the ATM.

Incidentally many banks surcharge ATM withdrawals the same way they do credit cards...Bank of America, for example, I believe adds the same 3% surcharge to ATM withdrawals as it does for its credit cards....most ATM withdrawals clear through either cirrus or plus which are really mastercard and visa in disguise so there is a 1% fee placed by the network on cash withdrawals in currencies other than the currency the card was issued in.

I, personally, cannot dream of travelling in the 21st century without the convenience of credit cards for everything everywhere they are taken for amounts no matter how small.

caph52...

The rules of cirrus and plus prohibit banks from charging the rip off fee for having the audacity to use their ATM's on cards issued from outside the country. Therefore an Irish bank is not allowed to add a charge for using its ATM if the transaction is to clear through either cirrus or plus.

However, as I understand it, many private operators have machines in places like convenience stores and have found ways around this regulation.

On the other hand, because of the suit the big credit card companies lost, more and more disclosures are required than before and it is possible the fees you are seeing represent the extra fees your bank is placing on transactions which they are now required to state ($7.56 is simply too high for a charge tacked on by the operator of the ATM...usually it is in the vicinity of €1 or €2 so I get the feeling that fee represents what your bank is adding to the currency exchange! Just a guess on my part.

Wow! Those are hefty fees. You mean your bank is charging you to get YOUR money from an ATM machine (other than theirs), whereas the European Bank ATM machines charge you nothing?

My recommendation would be -- get another bank. ((b))

"Incidentally many banks surcharge ATM withdrawals the same way they do credit cards...Bank of America, for example, I believe adds the same 3% surcharge to ATM withdrawals as it does for its credit cards."

Not so with my Bank of America ATM withdrawals. I used Barclay's during my most recent trip to London and like all previous trips throughout Europe there was NO charge at all for using an ATM, and the rate of exchange did not appear to have even a 1% added to it. They were clearly a total of 3% lower than charges made on a Citibank credit card. I even went back to XE.com to check rates for the days posted, and sure enough the rate of exchange given to me for my ATM withdrawals was exactly that.

Regarding fees with ATMs...

a reminder not to use your visa/mc or your advance may be considered a loan..with high fees.

only use your bank atm card

Bank of America doesn't have an ATM fee for withdrawals made from "Global Alliance" ATMS, which includes Barclaya, Deutschebank, and a few other banks. So that explains why Neapolitan wasn't charged for Barclays. They do have an ATM fee for other banks, though, unless they've changed very recently.

The 1% levied by Visa & MC for using Cirrus or Plus is just folded into the exchange rate on your statement, not listed separately, so unless you're monitoring the inter-bank exchange rate for comparison, it's basically hidden from the user.

BTW, Wells-Fargo (my godawful bank) now seems to be charging 5$ per ATM transaction, plus a 3% fee (Visa's 1% plus another 2%). So I've just opened a second checking account (no monthly fee, no minimum balance) at another bank that has better ATM terms for travel purposes.

KT, I may eventually wind up opening a second account too. I don't want to change banks because, for my day to day needs, mine is very convenient. They have service counters (open 8AM to 8PM, seven days a week) in two of the grocery stores I most often use, ATMs in those and our usual gas station, etc.

And this is actually the first time we've ever used the check card at ATMs on a trip. When we travel in the US, we usually use it as a debit card at a WalMart, grocery store, etc. and get cash back. The bank charges a 30cent fee for using it as a debit card. But, obviously, that's much less than paying their $3 ATM fee plus whatever the other bank charges.

For this short trip, a total of 5 nights in Ireland, it didn't seem worth the hassle of opening another account.

I was also being charged for the 'cash back' option when using my debt card and I've promptly closed that account! Check out bankrate.com for good rates. I just opened a money market account with 4.5% interest that gives me free atm withdrawals with no added fees (regardless if it's my bank's ATM or not)--foreign or domestic--AND they refund me up to $6 a month in ATM charges charged by a bank for using their ATM. So I use my card from my Bank A at Bank B's ATM. Bank A doesn't charge me but Bank B charges me, say, a $2 fee for not being a bank B customer. Well, bank A will refund me that $2!! I love it! And the 4.5% interest is awesome! And no minimum balance for the account...it's great. Check out the website and find a good deal!!

Regarding Bank of America charging a fee for using ATMs: KT is right, of course, that they charge no fee if you are using their partner banks. And some people are fooled into thinking that some countries in Europe have no partner banks. There is no Italian bank that is a partner, but there are literally hundreds of Deutschbanks in Italy and using their ATMs will still mean you pay no fee.
In addition to that, my BofA "Advantage Account" which costs me nothing (except also having an Equity Credit Line with them) has a few extra benefits. One of those benfits is that there is no charge on ANY ATM usage twice a month. So if for some reason I can't find a partner bank in Europe I still avoid any fee for the first two non-partner banks each month. My last three month trip to Europe, neither my partner or I ever paid an ATM fee for using our BofA cards.

chemgirl, I also hate to pay fees, especially to get access to my own money. Watch out for the DCC when you go to Ireland. They are notorious for it. It'll add an additional 3% on to all purchases over & above what your bank/credit card will charge you. ((b))

Well, we finally got the hard copy of our bank statement yesterday. I wanted to pull this back up to clarify. Turns out that the $12 *was* the compilation of all the out-of-state fees. The $7.56 was a currency conversion fee.

$7.56 'currency conversion fee' for a charge of less than $100 is OUTRAGEOUS!

Many U.S. Credit card issuers charge Visa/MasterCard standard 1.5-percent; then they tack on their own (maximum) 3-percent. That still doesn't account for how a 43.45 Euro charge became 60 or 75 US Dollars on your Credit Card billing.

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Dick writes: "The reason I try to use ATM's and pay for everything in cash is to avoid the "foreign exchange" fees tacked on by most credit card companies."

That's what I do; it's easy in Ireland with ATM's all over the place. I only use my Credit Union ATM that doesn't add any Foreign Currency Transaction fee.

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Your Credit Card issuer should have sent you a 'privacy' statement that tels you, among other things, what its Foreign Currency Transaction fee is. If you are planning a trip to Europe, you should read that carefully. You might even decide to leave those 'high fee' credit cards behind and rely on an ATM card, especially if you have a Credit Union ATM Card.

Your Ireland trip may end up costing you a lot more if you allow people to do the Dynamic Currency Conversion scam and don't do some research on Credit Card fees before using a Credit Card to buy things there.

Sorry, Nedsireland, should probably have explained that this was in response to a post mid-thread about what my bank charged me to use my check card at ATMs. That $7.56 was for a withdrawal of 200 Euro.

So that appears to be a 3% foreign transaction charge. I'm actually surprised at people who say their banks charge a conversion fee just for using an ATM card, the same as a credit card. An out-of-network ATM fee of a couple dollars or so doesn't surprise me, but my bank doesn't charge any ATM fees for foreign withdrawals. I don't have a debit card, only an ATM card, but they told me their VISA-branded debit cards don't have any foreign conversion fee, either for ATM withdrawals, only for buying things.

I don't think these fees would ever be in your privacy statements as Ned said, they are in the terms of service or whatever name your card uses that details charges. Privacy statements just talk about who they may give your name to, etc.

I really got lost here, but it seems you're saying that it was a Capital One CREDIT CARD you used to withdraw the money from an ATM. That is a very bad thing to do. I'm almost surprised the charge wasn't more. Using most credit cards at an ATM will not only add up to 3% to the amount, but will also charge you a "cash advance" interest fee at whatever rate they wish starting with the date you took the money out until the date you repay it. That can really add up.

ATMs are for using your own bank's ATM card directly linked ot your personal savings account.

If in fact you are saying your bank charged you that fee for using your ATM card linked to your checking account, I'd say you really need to investigate a new bank.

No, Neopolitan, it was NOT my Capital One card that I used to withdraw cash. It was my bank debit card (a Visa debit card). I used the Capital One card ONLY for purchases.

As I mentioned on an earlier response, if we go overseas again, I'll consider opening a second bank account at a bank that doesn't charge so many ATM and currency conversion fees. But, for everyday purposes, I'm happy with my bank so won't dump it.

I bought some makeup at Harrods and they did the old scam converting my items to U.S. Dollars. They acted as though they were doing me a favor. At the time I didn't know better and thanked them for doing so. I'm sure they got a good laugh out of that one.

Charlotta, if it makes you feel any better, I truly believe that some of the clerks, waitresses, etc. really don't understand that they're doing you a disservice. I'm sure that the managers or whoever is telling them to do is this way DO understand! And I found that, even when you know what they're doing, it's sometimes hard to do anything about it unless you're willing to get very nasty. And, for a couple of bucks difference, I wasn't willing to. But it sure does change the way you feel about the place where you just spent your money! And I think that those of us who have had it happen should name names as you did!

Christina writes: "I don't think these fees would ever be in your privacy statements as Ned said, they are in the terms of service or whatever name your card uses that details charges. Privacy statements just talk about who they may give your name to, etc."

What I wrote about is a several-page foldout Visa & MasterCard issuers send Cardholders when their Credit Card Operation is taken over by another entity (my most recent from Chase Card Services). They call it a 'Privacy Statement' but it details such things as Foreign Currency Transaction fees they charge.

You may call it a Disclosure Statement but Credit Card Issuers call it a Privacy Statement. Maybe that's why many people don't read the small print.

Well, that's interesting but yesterday I got a new "Privacy Statement" from Chase for a Marriott rewards card I don't use. It was a four page fold out. I was curious about their foreign exchange policy, but no matter how carefully I poured through it, there was not a single word regarding that issue.

I couldn't find my Chase Card Services statement so I post this verbatim quote from Sears MasterCard:

"Transaction Fee for Purchases Made in Foreign Currencies

For each purchase made in a foreign currency, we will add an additional FINANCE CHARGE of 3.0 % of the amount of the purchase after its conversion to U.S. dollars. This foreign currency transaction fee will be added to the regular Sears purchase balance. The foreign currency transaction fee may cause the annual percentage rate on the billing statement on which the purchase made in a foreign currency first appears to exceed the nominal annual percentage rate."

As I say, this is a direct quote from a Notice I received from Sears MasterCard recently. Most U.S. Credit Card Issuers charge a similar fee.

I'm pulling this thread back up in order to update the situation. The $75 charge was credited back to our card! I just saw it online. There's no explaination, so I don't know the full story. But, of course, I'm glad it was resolved in our favor!

Yesterday I renewed my driver's license at our State of Florida offices. They charge $2.00 if you choose to pay by credit card. I asked about the charge saying I understood it was illegal to do that. The clerk told me they get that often, but the state is legally exempt from such laws.

Neo, in my county in CA one can pay their property tax via a credit card but there is a charge to do so. I think the CA DMV charges a fee also. I am not sure if it is still true but our Pacific Gas & Electric at one time charged $5.00 to pay their bill via a credit card.

CAPH, I am sure glad you got that bill credited to your account. I always check every charge on my credit card statements..I save every receipt until the statement comes in.

CAPH, thanks for the update - glad everything worked out!

Maybe we should start a new thread on this topic but I called Capital One and they confirmed that they do not charge a fee for foreign purchases (and they waive the VISA fee), so that's definitely going to be my card of choice. I also called my Platinum MC and confirmed that will cover my CDW, which they do and they also said they get a discount through Hertz rentals. I haven't called Hertz yet to see what the discount is, but it's something to think about. They also told me that there is a 3% fee for foreign purchases on the Platinum MC but no fee if the charge is in dollars. The DCC fee is 35, right? You can't win! So I figure I'll use the Capital One card for purchases and the Platinum MC for the car since they'll cover the CDW and just eat the 3% fee.