caroline_venezia
 

Following my cluttering up other posters' threads with responses to other old Venice hands kindly asking how our move here is going & offering advice, or my offering advice myself, I thought I'd better start my own thread; also the info may help others.

Btw I've kept my caroline_edinburgh Fodor's name as otherwise I'd have to register as a new user, which is a shame.

A wee bit of background previously posted elsewhere...

DH & I were working for a bank in the UK and it had got more & more horrible over the last few years, with constant redundancies; so we both decided to take the plunge, take voluntary redundancy (which gives us enough to live on for a year or two), retrain in TEFL & move to Venice to give it a go. Although we are EU citizens we still had various hoops to jump through for residency. We had 7 weeks of just settling in, recovering from the move & enjoying ourselves; now into our 6th week of an intensive Italian course (we are doing 12 weeks) then will start looking for work. If we can't make enough to live on we'll just have to come up with another plan, but in the meantime we've rented a flat for a year.

Stop press: we picked up our residency certification & Carte d'Identita today & immediately got 2 celebratory Negronis reduced from E14 to E10!!

Ciao, Caroline

Rallegramenti Caroline!
This is a great idea, I was following your other bits and pieces on other threads.
What a great move (and a brave one) and I wish you and your husband all the best of luck.

Did you have any Italian before taking the intensive course there?

DH and I would like to spend long periods of time in Italy once he is retired so I have been taking Italian classes here, but I'm only in the beginner level 2 stage.

What is the hardest thing so far about living there?

I'll be following your thread with interest.
Ciao!

Ann: continuing our conversation from the 'cheese' post - more good tips, thanks. We are working on building up regular shops, bars etc - see result re cutprice Negronis above! - but I suppose our opportunities are more limited than when we're on hol as we're not going out for breakfast, drinks, meals etc as much (given this is our actual life now and we are currently unemployed !). Plus I think the fishmongers all speak Veneziano :-) But yes, I need to make more effort - I am being too British. Re free lectures - so far we've been to ones at the Ateneo Veneto, the Casino, the Scuola Grande di San Rocco & I think maybe some other places I've forgotten. I'm picking up on these + free concerts, exhibition openings etc from a combination of posters around town, the 'Un Ospite di Venezia' brochure or website and the back pages of the 'La Nuova' section of 'La Repubblica'. The latter is the only part I usually mange to read but DH is being very good and going through the whole paper most days, which he says has really helped with reading & vocabulary, so I must start to try & read at least proper article a day too.

Hi raincitygirl - grazie molto!

Yes, I'd attempted Italian evening classes on & off for 21 years!! DH had also stopped & started, but we both stuck at it for the last few years at the Istituto Italiano di Cultura in Edinburgh & were halfway through our B1.2 year when we left. So my reading & writing were probably intermediate/upper intermediate, but my speaking was less good & my listening was rubbish. The hardest thing - hm, not sure really. The bureaucracy has been trying at times (as more or less expected), but I think for me personally the main problem has been the fact I seem to get stressed & discouraged fairly easily these days (having never worried about a thing when I was young!); so I've had one or two low points when everything in general just seemed hard work & stressful, which I hadn't really expected. DH OTOH is just breezing through it all!

Glad you are finding this interesting & hope it will continue to be useful.

Prego!
It's easy for me to say but I think if you force yourself to speak as much as possible to people your Italian will improve quickly.
There is a lovely young Italian girl working here at a local shop and when I expressed amazement at how well she speaks English and how I'm battling with the verbal part of my classes she said "you need to go and live there and then you will really start to speak the language".
If it is any consolation there were two Scottish women in my last set of classes and they said they had an advantage in the pronunciation dep't as Scottish people tend to pronounce everything very precisely in English and they felt that really helped with the Italian.

I find listening hard as well, repetition seems to help me, so I listen to Italian CDs in the car and at home. My husband was following the Giro d'Italia so I'd listen to that but the commentators speak so quickly and are so excited I was getting only a few words here and there!

Don't be discouraged Caroline, we are all cheering for you here in Fodor-land. It's a big move you've made, as time goes on and you settle in you will feel less stressed.

Hope you can find the time and interest to keep us updated on your adventure. Please.

Please!

Stop press: we picked up our residency certification & Carte d'Identita today & immediately got 2 celebratory Negronis reduced from E14 to E10!! >>

i'd love to know how you swung this! waving your residence permits above your heads in celebration? presenting your carte d'identita when you asked for your bar bill? anyway, congrats on being official residents.

raincitygirl - I tried watching the giro last year but actually, i decided that the commentary was rubbish. soooo repetitive and not a patch on the UK tour de France offering. i think that sport is one of the most difficult things to follow - too many names, or words that could be names. it's one of the things that puts me off moving to France or IItaly - how could I cope without the cricket commentary?

<<so I've had one or two low points when everything in general just seemed hard work & stressful, which I hadn't really expected. DH OTOH is just breezing through it all!>>

caroline - have you thought about why he finds it easier? what causes your stress? it's not a competition! chill - it's supposed to be fun. I'm lucky - i find languages easy but DH doesn't and i know that he can feel very stressed when we are both trying to speak french [our one common foreign language] at the same time. perhaps you need to carve out your own niche?

annhig, well in this house all cycling events must be watched...by decree of the MOTH (man of the house). He is training right now for a 200 mile ride in July from Seattle to Portland, Oregon.
You are right though, lots of words where I wasn't sure if it was a word or a person's name. Of course DH knows all the names so that helped.
I am only a marginal sports fan but in DH's family they are sports mad. My mother in law played cricket and rugby as a schoolgirl, as well as field hockey etc etc. It is brutal to sit with them and watch a sport on t.v., they know every rule and nuance of every blessed sport on the planet. LOL.

hi rcg - sounds like my kind of family. if it moves, i'll watch it. [can't get US sports though, sorry and i can't get excited about wrestling or horse racing either].

i think that names are very difficult in a foreign language - you need to have a solid knowledge of the country to be able to spot them.

As somebody whose approach to Fodor's is like his approach to tourism (i.e. capricious or random sampling) I had missed your earlier posts about your big change in your life package. I wish you all the best with it.

But I think you deploy your TEFL skills where they are more urgently needed: Glasgow.

ha ha ann, you would fit right in. My husband is Australian, his parents South African but they lived a number of years in London.
I used to say they would watch two flies racing up a wall with full commentary provided!

I'm Canadian and when we moved back here it took no time at all for DH to get up to speed on baseball, ice hockey etc. and although he really does not like American football much he will still watch it on t.v. His mom came to visit once knowing nothing about ice hockey and within days was a knowledgeable Canucks fan and still is, watching it on cable from Sydney.
I must say the one thing I can get worked up about is anything to do with horses, racing, eventing, dressage..love it all.

Hi Caroline, and it’s great to see that the Venetian adventure is working out for you. Lou studied Italian (and listens to the foreign language radio Special Broadcasting Service, SBS, (or Esse Bee Essa) in the shower, picking up the Australian news spoken in Italian.

Lou came to an arrangement with a young lady in Venice, courtesy of a friendly shop keeper. Lou would buy a couple of coffees, and they would talk for an hour. Half an hour speaking English, half an hour speaking Italian. They both enjoyed it, and we will attend her graduation in April next year.

We’re planning our next visit for April and May 2013, and have booked an apartment in Santa Croce, near San Giacomo. It will be fun exploring a new neighbourhood, seeing different street life. Hopefully you will still be in Venice, we’d love to buy you a spritz, and I wonder where you are living.

Caroline, I’ve just discovered from Pepper’s cheese conversation that you are near San Stefano. There’s a canal that runs clear under that church.

Buying wellies – there’s a shop just off campo San Barnaba, in the sottoportego as you head towards Academe that does boots. But maybe that’s a winter thing.

A thought to help you get Italian conversation – how about a notice on the board in one of the Universities. You can deliver an English lesson, and receive an Italian one. That is what Lou had in mind, before finding a partner courtesy of the lady in the linen shop in Calle Lunga San Barnaba.

Cheers

Peter

Hi Caroline looking forward to reading more. Can you tell us about your flat?

Caroline,

When I was in Venice this past March, I went to a nice free concert of chamber music at Palazzetto Bru Zane (Centre de Musique Romantique Francaise). It is located quite near San Giovanni Evangelista. I think the concert was free because it was part of the "Donne a Venezia" weekend, but it might be worthwhile to watch the center's schedule.

http://www.bru-zane.com/?lang=en

Caroline,

Congratulations on this major move! What a really wonderful life experience for you two. Please do keep us posted, we are cheering for you.

Buona fortuna,
Dayle

I can only say I am jealous!

Hi Caroline,

Delighted you are in Venice. You always come across as a charming person, so now you are a lovely person in the loveliest of cities.

I do adore your hometown too, and I just persuaded my sister to visit Edinburgh and she was enchanted.

Ah,but Venice!

Best wishes to you and your husband in Venice. Hope to return myself later this year.

Kerry

Hi Caroline, as a native of Edinburgh I remember you from your threads on the city.
This is the first time I've been on Fodors in ages, so I was interested to read about your move to Venice. Let's hope you can make a go of it! Good luck:)

How wonderful. I hope you make a go of it.
In bocca al lupo ;-)

Congratulations Caroline.

It is always good to hear of someone actually biting the bullet and starting over. I hope you are able to make a go of it.
I shall look forward to reading of your exploits.
Do you have a blog like Scarlett does? If not have you thought of starting one;) .

Glad you are beginning your own thread Caroline.

One of the good things about residency is the cheap vaporetto trips, no more thinking "Is it worth 6.50 euro?"

I am curious to know intensive/difficult your Italian classes are, for instance do you have to do homework during the afternoons?

Hi everyone and thanks very much for all your good wishes and suggestions! Gosh, the volume of responses is a bit overwhelming so it may take a while for me to respond to them all, but here goes to start.

Several people mentioned Italian TV etc. We'd tried watching RAI News when we were still in Edinburgh, but I couldn't cope with it as the newreading dolllybirds all speak so fast. But one of our teachers has now mentioned an area for talks called 'Dark Room' on the RAI website which sounds good, so we must try that. We've got a radio but I'm afraid I just tend to zone it out.

Ann, re the cutprice Negronis, you guessed about tight - DH asked for the bill, I was admiring my ID card, the waitress was being friendly & saying she'd seen us before so I said we had moved here & were celebrating having just got our residency while waving my card. She asked to see it and possibly noticed we lived just round the corner, then crumpled up the bill & asked us for the lower amount, telling us that next time we are in we should tell the owner (from whom we'd ordered) that we are residents. Why DH finds it easier - he's just a naturally very laidback person! Plus he seems to find more time to work on his Italian by things like reading the paper (having been helped along the way by having nothing to do at work all last year & spending long periods reading it online!).

Padraig, I haven't really posted about our new life before, just mentioned it in passing when trying to answer other posters' questions - but questions back to me were starting to take over other people's threads, hence starting my own for those interested. Haha about Glasgow! As you probably guessed we did our TEFL training in Edinburgh:-)

Peter, good to hear from you - Lou's arrangement sounds ideal and that's a good idea re advertising round the universities. We are looking forward to meeting you both next year! Re the canal under Santo Stefano - not sure if you know that the tax dept is in the cloisters, and when we've had to go there we've passed through a corrider which bridges the canal! If you haven't done so before, it's worth going in for a look around - entrance from Campo Sant'Angelo. The wellie stockist you mention is actually where I enquired about the boots which turned out to be E27! Plus the signora didn't really seem interested in selling me any. I think I should wait until the autumn now when presumably more shops will have them at cheaper prices - and/or then try the Sacca Fissola market (where we've bought cheap flipflops in the past) or Mestre (where we've been advised to buy shoes).

Anyway, chef (aka DH) informs me dinner is ready, so ciao for now!

Caroline! Sounds wonderful. I imagine you can sit outside much more than you could in Edinburgh, or even in sunny London. Best of luck.

looks very exciting. I did the ride down to Ferrara from Venice not so long ago, your DH may enjoy it.

Something I've dreamed about, moving to Venice; I will follow your adventures with great interest!

Hello again and thank you all again for all your lovely good wishes.

Micheline, what would you like to know about our flat?

ellenem, thanks for the link to Palazzetto Bru Zane. I haven't really thought about it yet as they were holding what seemed like an interminable Theodore Dubois season with quite pricy concerts, but I see that finished last week. So I must keep my eye open - good to know they sometimes have free concerts.

Kerry, you are too kind! Hope you'll make it here & we'll meet up. Nice to hear your sister enjoyed Edinburgh.

hetismij2: I don't have a blog, but DH does - http://jonesesavenezia.blogspot.it/

Tarquin: not sure I've ever bought a E6.50 vaporetto ticket! (now E7 btw). On holidays we usually found we just walked a lot of days, so tried to maximise the use of the odd 48/72 hr ticket to cover as much as possible where needed. 2 holidays ago we discovered the Imob cards which anyone can buy, although for non-residents it's E40 upfront as opposed to E10. But having paid that, you can then buy singles for E1.30 each or (what we've done ever since) 10 for E11. The card lasts 3-5 years (seems to have changed since we got ours) & is then renewable for E10. Oh, and you get Alilaguna tickets for about half price. See http://www.actv.it/en/movinginvenice/prices - scroll down to CARTAVENEZIA CARD TICKETS. I reckon this is probably cost-effective for most people who are ever going to spend 2 weeks or more here. We could also now buy monthly abbonamenti for E30, but it's not worth it for us at the moment as we only use the vaporetti an average of probably 3 times a week - that will change, though, if we find ourselves commuting to work. Where we are living now, I actually use the traghetto marginally more than the vaporetto!

Re the course, we have 1st lesson 9-10.50, 20 minute break & 2nd lesson 11.10-13.00. Most days both teachers give us a bit of homework which probably henerally takes me 45-60 mins. I must admit that with people who are just here on holiday for 1-2 weeks, which a lot of our fellow students are, I don't really understand why they'd use up so much of their precious holiday time doing this! The school also runs activities each afyernoon/evening - walks, films, cookery classes - nearly all of which are free, so that's a nice bonus - plus they now have a limited number of free places at the Lido (most distant beach!). This is where we are studying - http://www.istitutovenezia.com/en/

Hi Nikki! How are you? You're right - we didn't use our Edinburgh balcony *once* in the last 2 years, so space to sit outside was my top, non-negotiable requirement for a flat here! We've had lunch outside nearly every day since our 2nd week, albeit with jumpers on to start (we arrived on 4th March) & have had dinner outside most nights for 2/3 weeks now. Luxury!

Hi Bilbo - sorry to be dense, but was sort of ride? DH used to have a motorbike but not for some years now sadly. (But he's very much enjoying not having a car!)

Slightly off topic, but perhaps you will be amused as well as supported in trying to learn Italian -- for which I applaud you!

For ten years, I lived within an easy walk of Boston's North End, an Italian neighborhood where my butcher, greengrocer, baker and the owner of the salumeria would normally speak in Italian but would switch to English to help me, but English with a Boston accent.

When I went to Valvona and Crolla in Edinburgh some years ago, the staff were speaking Italian -- right, all familiar, justlike at home -- and switched to English to serve me but English with a strong Scots accent, not like home at all!

But I suppose my question here is whether when you are all finished, you will know Italian or Venetian? And will Italians in other parts of Italy find it easier to understand your Scots accented English than your Venetian dialect ;-)

What a wonderful adventure you are having. Good to have the courage to take it up! Best of luck!

Re the course, we have 1st lesson 9-10.50, 20 minute break & 2nd lesson 11.10-13.00. Most days both teachers give us a bit of homework which probably henerally takes me 45-60 mins. I must admit that with people who are just here on holiday for 1-2 weeks, which a lot of our fellow students are, I don't really understand why they'd use up so much of their precious holiday time doing this! >>

lol, caroline, that was exactly what i did last year! only for a week, mind, but I'd had loved to have a couple of weeks or more. even in a week I felt that i made a lot of progress with listening and speaking. my reason for doing it was that following AS level, despite doing a conversation course at night school, I'd felt that I'd hit a "wall" and needed something more intense to make any significant improvement. of course, a year later and the benefits have largely worn off, but I had a great time doing the course, and for the 3 or so days I spent afterwards in Florence practising with anyone who would let me speak to them.

on my course there was a german girl who worked in tourism and wanted to be able to talk to Italian guests, and a couple of danish teachers who were doing italian together at evening school in copenhagen, who were doing it for more or less the same reasons as me. the format you describe is i think standard with nearly all such schools. you can usually do private lessons in the afternoon as well if you like. the german girl had done that and made fantastic progress.

now I'm going to have a look at your DH's blog to see how he thinks you're doing!

Caroline wrote " I don't have a blog, but DH does - http://jonesesavenezia.blogspot.it/"

It's well worth reading. Caroline, you seem to be married to a very nice man - I'm sure you have that figured out already.

I just spent a happy hour reading the blog. Great fun - and wondering which pipes at 2878a Calle Lunga San Barnaba froze and failed. I so enjoy the familiarity, and Phillip's dry as dust humor.

Thank you again for all the kind comments and good wishes!

Ackislander, that's a good story! Neither DH nor I are actually Scottish athough we both lived there for nearly 20 years. I am English & he is (south) Welsh, but with not much of a Welsh accent except when he is declaiming - so we have wondered whether he'll declaim Italian with a Welsh accent! On the course we are learning Italian - the teachers come from all over Italian and we remember being told on our TEFL course that teachers with a mix of accents is a good thing - but I think we may only know the Venetian names for the new seafood we're coming across!

Ann, we have an amazing mix of nationalities on the course but most are doing it as part of a holiday, as you did. Private lessons are indeed available too but 4 hours a day of group lessons is more than enough for me! Plus we wouldn't have got our 'borse di studio' for private lessons :-)

Padraig and Peter, glad you are enjoying the blog and Philip thanks you for your kind words. Padraig, I know I am very lucky!

Peter, we'd booked the 1st floor flat this time as we thought it might be a bit more comfortable - more space for our 10 bags, and no hazardous spiral staircase ! - plus we didn't anticipate needing the roof terrace (although we did eat lunch on the balcony during the 2nd week). It was a pipe in the 2nd floor flat which had burst so initially Annamaria said the other flats were wrecked too, but this then came down to just needing some redecorating. (It seemed the house had been empty all winter & the problem was only discovered when someone went in to get the flat ready for us.) Paint and plaster was coming off the ceiling around the middle of the flat, and after a week mould starting spreading on the outside bathroom walls. Although it was getting a bit depressing we did ask to stay a bit longer, just because it would be easier, but A. seemed to become incommunicado. So we ended up moving to another holiday flat at San Basilio - just across the bridge behind the Stazione Marittima - for 10 days until we moved into our long term flat. It was really nice there and we would recommend it to anyone; we'd quite happpily live there longterm except it didn't have any outside space - http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Vacatio...o.html#REVIEWS

I was halfway through Philip's blog when I saw the brass doorplate marked Jones - that is really exciting! Somewhere in our many photos of Venice, we have one of a doorbell labelled A. Zen. I know Zen is a Venetian name, but still!

Great blog, I hope he finds the camera?

yes, love the blog. it was interesting learning more about the background to your move and the administrative hoops you've had to surmount - something that is so off-putting to those of us who have contemplated, however vaguely, a move to France or Italy.

I'm intrigued to know what you're going to do about getting your residents' discounts - it might feel a bit naff to be waiving your permit around every time you go into a bar or a shop. do let us know what you decide to do to get your residents' prices.

So many congrats for your move!

I know exactly what you mean about the listening part in language. One thing that helped me was to speak slowly rather than try to sound like a native--that way, the person replied more slowly. Sometimes I prefaced my words with "I'm learning Italian"...people were always patient.

Off to read your DH's blog. Again, congrats.

I'm so glad you posted back and will, hopefully, check in frequently and give us a taste of your new life, Carolyn.

Now I'm heading over to read the blog...

Thanks so much for sharing your husbands blog! I've just had a lovely Sunday morning enjoying it! Best wishes on your move and thanks again!

Caroline, I rather liked your OH writing of burning your boats - hardly the best action for prospective Venetian residents to take.

Sometimes I prefaced my words with "I'm learning Italian"...people were always patient.>>

lol, TDudette, sadly they know that immediately I open my mouth!

but i agree that many locals were be very patient and helpful, even the ones whose english was obviously far superior to our italian.

however a problem we found on our last trip to Venice was that many of the assistants in bars and shops were no more italian than we were, and consequently were worse than useless for language practice.

in fact, if you ignore places in the country where relatively few italians speak english, the best place for practising we have found is Rome. A surprisingly large no of shop assistants, bar staff and waiters are both italian and non-english speaking, which helps a lot.