intex have you read this thread??? DO you not understand that it is not necessary to carry pepperspray in Europe? No matter how old or young you are, or what sex you are. That you risk arrest if you use it, no matter whether it is legal to carry it or not?
Your students do not need pepper spray they just need a dose of common sense, as, it would seem, do you.

I think that Viajero2 made a point at the very beginning of this thread that (no matter what I, you, or we think of pepper spray) this is a legal question which can only be answered by someone with expertise in Italian jurisdiction.

sarge56, you may laugh at the idea that pepper spray may be considered a "weapon", but it only matters what the Italian law says about it.

Within the European Union there is no joint legal definition of what is considered appropriate action in the course of self defense.

So it makes no sense to take your local laws or your personal opinion as a guideline, as you will be acting lawful or unlawful according to Italian jurisdiction.

>>Of course, flanner has exaggerated; but given the statistical numbers, there IS a huge difference in violence between the USA and Europe. Violence is much more common in the US<<
One of the more annoying parts of a forum like this is when people make flat statments that they accept as truisms, without any real knowledge. Let's look at the real statistics:

US Population: 300 million
US violent crimes in 2006: 1.4 million
Violent-crime rate: 0.4%

England population: 60 million
Violent crimes in 2006: 1 million
Violent-crime rate: 1.6%

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. the numbers can be used to prove anything. The definition of violent crime may vary, the reporting of such things may vary.

I believe my chances of being shot dead in the UK are some 50 times lower than the US. That is obviously based just on pure numbers (around 100 to around 30000 per year).

sarge56~ You are correct, that was a mistake in your post, both content and tone. You DID say you'd *really like* to give a dose of pepper spray to *any potential pickpocket*. That is very different from what you are saying now, later on down the thread.

what is considered violent crime is different in de-ifferent States - let alone different countries.

I do know that each year there are more gun deaths in Oakland California than in all of England (and probably in all of the UK). Same for several other US cities.

willet: Of course, you can use statistics any way you want. But I'll take the statistics over some wild, unsupported statement.

I so surprised by the numbers that I did a little digging for backup, as no source was cited and nor was it clear that the definition of "violent crime" was the same.

The UK Home Office web site points out that country-country comparisons are suspect, due to a number of factors. However, this report (www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb1203.pdf)
has some interesting figures:

Homicides per 100,000 for 1991-2001 - EU average 1.6, highest Scotland, 2.2; USA 5.6
Homicides in capital cities - EU average 2.3 per 100,000, highest Belfast, 5.6, Washington 42.9; New York 8.7

Violent crime rates have been rising faster in the EU than in the US in recent years:
EU average rise 1997-2001 22%, highest France 50%, the US 1% - but this is not meaningful for total figures. England and Wales are reported to have high rates of robbery, assault and sexual assault compared to rest of the EU, so may not be a meaningful comparison with travel in France or Italy.

England and Wales also have the highest per capita prison population - 129 per 100,000 - the US is 689 per 100,000

Violent crime in 2001 - UK 813,271 (1.35%); US 1,436,611 (.47%)
Robbery - UK 121,370 (.20%); US 422,921 (.14%)
Victimization risk - UK 26, US 21

But I still feel a lot safer on the streets of a European town than a US one - I make sure to lock my car doors if I drive through certain parts of neighboring towns, and avoid others entirely.

On average more than one person per day is killed in Philadelphia, so I've heared. Just this one city and it doesn't look like anybody cares. :-(

I can just picture you running after a pickpocketer spraying innocent people in your path. I'll stay in a restaurant and drink my wine.

I found a restaurant up on the fifth floor for dinner in Oia. Take your pictures before sunset. They turned out better than the ones during sunset. Thirty minutes before sunset were the best. Several restaurants have a view to die for.

I think I got my threads missed up.

Hi 1959,

>I almost suspect that the pickpocket rumors are another propaganda of the Bush administration in order to prevent Americans from travelling to Europe.<

Buses in Florence have signs saying "Beware of pickpockets" in Italian and English.

Hi 999,

>US ... Violent-crime rate: 0.4%

[UK] ... Violent-crime rate: 1.6%<

Somewhat surprising, but true.

Murder rates, however, are US 4/100k, UK and Italy 1/100k.

((I))

ira: The figures are real, but those who disagree will disagree (until they find figures that support their point of view -- then the figures will be flawless).

I'm amused by those who say they "feel safer" in Europe. I've never felt more safe than in Manhattan at 11 p.m. And I've never felt less safe than in Naples at noon. Location, location, location.