I agree with you, Peter. The ticket jacket said 30 minutes. That's it, in print. Maybe that's an old ticket jacket but the airline should be understanding of that.

Maybe we should all start showing up whenever we feel like it, as long as it is at least 30 minutes before departure. Screw the wide spread admonition that we show up 2 hours ahead of time. Let the airlines worry about how to clear all of us AND assure our safety in those last 30 minutes.

Geez, I certainly admire your fighting spirit. : - ) Now, try and bear with me a minute. <BR><BR>If you go back and read some of the other posts, you'll see that check-in does not mean arriving at the desk. It means completing all clearances and arriving at the departure gate. Nowhere is it stated that these clearances would be expected to take only 30 minutes; you are quite right on that point, that would not be enough time. One cannot possibly be at the desk and the departure gate at one and the same time.<BR><BR>However, what is clearly stated is that the deadline of note is one's time of arrival, after completing all formalities, at the departure gate. This deadline is 30 minutes. <BR><BR> To get to the gate by this time, i.e. to complete all formalities, they recommend starting the process at least 120 minutes before departure, or 90 minutes before the gate deadline. I don't think anyone is disputing that one is taking a risk to allow any less time than this to meet that deadline. However, bottom line is that that gate deadline is 30 minutes, according to current policy. If a passenger can manage, by hook or crook, to get to the gate with all formalities cleared, by 30 minutes, he or she has met the deadline. Is this likely? Maybe not. I would certainly not want to bet my first day in Paris on making the gate with less time. But: is it legal to try and make it to the departure gate with less time, according to current AA policy? Yes.<BR><BR>If you disagree with this policy, or with the wording of the airline's web site, you'll probably have better luck directing your concerns to the management of AA. Maybe you have some important points the airline's management should know. But either way, since it's their policy, they alone have the authority to change it. As to whether compensation is owing, noone is suggesting that a passenger can write their own policy. Compensation guidelines are explained in the conditions of carriage, again as written by AA. So again, if you disagree with compensation (and you may well have some points) then you'll only get anywhere if you take up the matter with the airline management.<BR><BR>I agree that Peter is possibly better off keeping a neutral professional tone. But, that should go for us all. Meanwhile, I wish you well in your endeavour, as do I wish Peter well in his, and you are now all finally rid of me, I've gotten far too involved in this, time to go.

I think most of you are missing the point. Regardless of weather delays, regardless of RECCOMENDATIONS of when to be at the airport, according to AA's own PRINTED policy Peter was NOT late. The flight was very simply overbooked. What if Peter had said that he had gotten to the airport the recommended 2 hours ahead only to stand in line for 1 hour and 5 minutes until reaching the ticket counter? What would you say then? I've had airline people tell me to definitely not bother getting there more than 2 hours before a flight in such a way that would suggest between 1-2 hours not 2-3 hours. But that too is not the point. Peter was not late simply bumped and the airline was using the time as an excuse to not offer compensatation and Peter was apparantly too naive to know to insist on something while there.

Sue you have confused me. I don't understand this business of being at the gate 30 minutes before as checking in. Isn't check in where they take your passports and give you your boarding passes and seat assignments and CHECK IN your baggage to be checked? I don't recall anyone ever taking tabs on who's at the gate waiting for the flight to board and who is hiding in the dutyfree shop. I've had my boarding passes ripped 15 minutes before departure even though I was in the waiting area an hour and security had taken 10 minutes(and only took that long because the girl seemed so terribly amused by the rivets on my shoes and my underwire bra). On my last flight they never even ripped my boarding pass what is that saying? Seems to me seats were clearly not available at a time when they would have been had it not been for overbooking so they never even had a chance to get to the gate. It seems AA themselves are saying that it was the lack of seat availability that prevented them from getting on the flight as tags for the checked luggage were issued. This means that the AA personnel helping them believed they could get to the gate on time. How does that not translate into bumped? The flight was not even boarding. This late business is a sorry excuse. They were going to let them get on the plane so whether AA told them they were late was deemed irrelevant by AA personnel's own actions.

IF Peter actually made it through baggage and security and checked in at his gate with 55 minutes to spare, then he has a legitimate beef. I'm not sure if that is still absolutely clear from his posts, but I haven't gone through the whole thread. I can't help but be a little skeptical, though, because my experience is that the plane loads before bumping people. However, for security reasons, if you do not arrive at the gate 30 minutes before departure, they will deny you access whether there is room or not. In many situations, the plane has not begun to board 55 minutes in advance. Heck, sometimes the plane hasn't even arrived! So, I am a little skeptical. Of course, I got a little side tracked by his blaming of his delays on the weather and making those David/Goliath type comments. Those don't add to his credibility, but he may have a claim.

"I am confused" - since we are talking about the difference between a bump that is the passenger's fault and a bump that is the airline's fault, it is important to see just when the passenger is deemed to be at fault, if any conclusion is to be drawn. In my original post, I quoted the AA site to show that according to AA, a bump that is the passenger's fault occurs if you don't adhere to the following:<BR><BR>(from the AA site)****You must check-in ****at least**** 30 minutes before scheduled departure time, and be present at the departure gate, to retain your reservation and a seat. <BR><BR>Now since one cannot check in and be at the departure gate at the same time, we have to assume the definitive deadline of 30 minutes applies to the event that succeeds the activities at the check-in desk, in other words, the departure gate deadline. That is the only deadline mentioned. There is no one hour at the desk deadline mentioned, there is no 2 hour at the desk mentioned, there are only recommendations given as to how much time one should allot to be certain one gets to the departure gate at a time of 30 minutes prior to departure. So as I read it, Peter was still on time if he was at the desk 55 minutes in advance.<BR><BR>I've no idea how the airline ascertaines whether one is at the departure gate at this time, or even if they do, I'm just quoting their policy, which is the only one that applies. <BR><BR>I think we are on the same page, as you would understand if you read what I wrote subsequent to that post: <BR><BR>" But here’s where I agree with Peter: AA never gave them a chance to miss their flight boarding call deadline. It isn’t AA’s call to say that Peter and wife couldn’t have made it from arrival at the airport to the gate in 25 minutes; they might have got lucky. But – and here’s the essential point – this was an event-driven desk closure, not a time-driven desk closure. The precipitating cause of the desk being closed to Peter and wife wasn’t the time they arrived but the fact that all the passes had already been given out. This could have happened even if they had arrived 2 hours in advance, if the remaining passengers had all arrived even earlier and checked in by that time. Overbooked is overbooked, and more time at the desk will not magically produce more seats on the plane. "<BR><BR>My post was in reply to Geez' suggestion that Peter was being unreasonable because trying to clear all procedures 30 minutes prior to departure wasn't reasonable. I agree, it wouldn't be reasonable. But Peter wasn't trying to clear 30 minutes prior to departure, he was trying to clear 55 minutes prior to departure. I don't know if that would have been enough time to make the 30 minute deadline, but the airline can offer no proof that he didn't make it.<BR><BR>Nowhere did I say he wasn't bumped. I agree it is a confusing situation, what with people jumping to conclusions. However, with respect, I'm not taking the blame for your being confused.

Give it a rest, Sue.

Take a breath, you should try humour with me, not condescension, it usually works better. : - ) <BR>

I would love to know what Peter and his wife were doing the hour BEFORE they chose to leave for the airport??? What was so vital and important at home that you would risk your vacation??? Hopefully world peace at least was at stake to not look out the window and say "Gee maybe we should leave earlier" As someone else pointed out, and entire planefull of people made it ON TIME.

Safenotsorry, Read the thread, I believe Peter already said that they "left our house early, early enough to be at the airport about 2.5 hours before our flight based on past experience with heavy traffic."

But it seems that everyone else made it to the airport on time.

Do you know this for a fact?

Well, there were no empty seats.

Sue, I'm so impressed with your cogent analysis of the situation (which is probably the only reason I continue to follow this thread). Peter would be well advised to steal from your posts for his letter.