olga are you nuts?<BR><BR>"At least they die in an "honorable" way,"<BR><BR>The bull is aggressive because he has been separated from the herd. He's just frightened. "Honorable" hell.<BR>

Then stop lecturing people that want to go have a good time and see a bullfight in Spain. It's legal there, so , LIVE WITH IT!!!! LOL!!!!!!!

Dear Vic,<BR><BR>Having a bad day at work or something?<BR>I don´t think I was disrespectful with you or anybody else, sorry if i offended you.<BR><BR>If I typed "honourable" like that is because it was just a manner of speaking, of course I don´t like what they do to the bull, but I don´t see you going to a slaughterhouse to protect any cattle. Their meat gets sold and eaten just the same, at least they get to have some fun all their life, even if they do have a little longer death then the other bulls.<BR><BR>Have a great day!

When I was a teen and read Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon with his description of the high art and romance of the bullfight, I was filled with flights of fancy.<BR><BR>I found no high art just a bloody mess. The horses are better treated than in Hemingway's day. They are covered with blankets so that it takes longer to kill the animal, Oh, we'd go quite often in the summer but it never got better. Just a bunch teenages going to Mexico to get drunk and watch six animals being tortured to death. But as I said above, if you're drunk, it's easier to take.

Unless you grew up in this culture, and were hardened to it from birth, I don't understand how anyone could enjoy it! If you are also hardened to suffering and pain, you might also enjoy it. If you have an ounce of compassion you won't like it. I was in Spain and had to watch on tv before I could be judgemental about it. Little do most know the bull is half dead by the time the matador comes out. He has been run around the ring for at least a half hour before by horses. He is then stuck with swords in the neck to sever the muscle that holds his head up. By the time the matador comes out he has almost bled to death. In one match, by the time the matador came out the bull was already on his knees unable to walk more than 10 feet before he'd collapse again. In most matches the bull had no fight left in him and the matador was trying to get the bull to run towards him. I know here in the US, any clips I have ever seen of bullfights, look to be like an intense and dangerous fight. Seeing 6-8 matches live in Spain...far from it!

<BR>To notatreehuggingippie:<BR><BR>If you really have been to 5 or 6 bullfights in Spain, what on earth were you looking at?<BR>Maribel, Pedro, and anybody else that really know their stuff about Spain <BR>will agree with me that what you say about the bull being half dead before the bullfighter comes out is not true.<BR>The bullfighter and his crew come out before the bull does. <BR>Yes, after dancing around for a while and teasing him, the picador on horseback comes out and stabs him with a small blade at the end of a lance, <BR>and then a couple of the matadors helpers poke at him with the banderillas, but when the bull is of good breed all this does nothing but irk him and piss him off.<BR>As a matter of fact, if the bull is too tame and doesn´t attack the matador, everybody boos and sometimes they even take the bull away and bring out another in hope that the next one is better and gives a better show and oportunity for the bullfighter to prove his courage.<BR><BR>Also, I´ve never been to Tijuana, but the kind of spectacle you are describing has nothing to do with a bulfight in Spain. I´ve never seen anybody visibly drunk at a bullfight here.<BR><BR>Believe me, I really don´t like the <BR>killing and tormenting the bull part of it anymore than most people, I actually only when I have people visiting from the U.S. that insist on going. But I don´t like it when people get on their high horse and criticise something without knowing much about it.<BR><BR>Being radical and intolerant is usually not a very good idea, whichever extreme you are on. Intolerance has shed many more lifes then bullfighters, and not precisely animal lifes.<BR><BR>I am not trying to convince anybody,

marko-<BR><BR>I've yet to see anyone post a question re: bullfights without the thread eventually turning into a raging debate between animal rights' activists and the "cultural" supporters. I put the word in quotations as, I admittedly, question the cultural aspect of this blood sport. Didn't get to Seville --- did watch a bullfight in Madrid when in Spain quite a few years ago. It's not something I'd care to do again. Must say it holds your attention. Think I got a sense of what the Romans felt like when witnessing spectacles in the Colosseum.

If what notatreehugnhippie said is true, no one would go to see the thing. The bull is quite lively and quite deadly. The whole idea is to slow the bull down and lower his head for the kill. But believe me, the bulls no push over even at the end.<BR><BR>As for Olga, I saw one fight in Spain and there were more than a few people drinking in the stands. I don't understand Spanish so I'll just assume they were not pulling for the bull like the Americans in Tijuana.

Can any of you aficionados spare a white baggie? :&gt; Ciao

How can killing an animal be considered an art form? Secondly, if you are going to stick spears in the bull's neck before the bullfight then to make things completely fair you should do the same to the barbaric bullfighter. <BR><BR>What kind of message does it send to children? They see this and think it's okay to go around killing animals. And guess what human abuse usually starts with animal abuse. <BR><BR>Anyone that says bullfighting if fine and it's a sport needs to reevaluate their lives. They should all be ashamed. And no I am not with any animal organization. I just have a heart and hate to see the barbaric way in which they are killed.

We're on shaky ground if we're not vegetarians. I was told that the bulls were given to orphages in Tijuana. True or not, I'm sure the bulls were somehow consumed.<BR><BR>If we are concerned with how animals are treated, we don't have to go as far as Mexico and Spain. How do we produce veal? We're now making our own froi gras. Apparently, many animals are still conscious half way down the slaughter line.

as a highn school spanish teacher i take my students every year to spain and a bulfight --if you know what to lok for its not as gruesome and its actaully considered an art not a sport ---in some heated discussions with some madrilenos they say to me " how can americans just step over homeless people on sidewalks yet complain about the death 0f an animal that was born to fight and die --also why do americans hunt rabbits with shotguns" to the uneducated eye it is gruesome but......

I have a feeling the American rabbit hunters are not the same ones that are repulsed by bullfighting. <BR>But still, if your little boy hunted a rabbit by luring the boldest one out, then repeatedly taunting and stabbing the creature with hatpins and nail scissors, driving it into a frenzy, drawing this game out as long as possible, until the rabbit collapsed, then finished it off with a steak knife and sawed off its ears, while the other kids watched and cheered...and music was playing, and refreshments sold at this event...is the kid a budding psycho-sadist, a budding sportsman, or a budding artiste?

Did anybody eventually tell Marko how to get his tickets ?