Back the original left or loo tenant. As I child I came across this word in a book, and only having heard lootenant, in old cowboys and indians type films on the telly, I read it as lootenant. I still say lootenant some 40 years later, much to the annoyance of my countrymen.

But we understand each other, you say trunk, we say boot, you say sidewalk, we say pavement, you say aluminum, we say aluminium....tomato tomayto.

Recently in a Thai restaurant in Canterbury there was a table full of, what to me were Chinese young people (they could have been Thai or whatever, I couldn't tell), but they were all speaking English to each other. Turns out they were all Chinese, but some were Cantonese, some Malaysian, some even from Africa! English was their common language.

The answer is indeed Mauritius.

And St. Bart does indeed use the euro, as does all of the French Antilles.

If there is one thing that sends me mad is to have an American correct my pronounciation.

I was once reliably informed that Italian was pronounced Eye-talian, and master pronounced "Meeaahsturrr" or some such nonesense.

Fume!!!


Well, if someone wants to say that the English use proper subject-verb agreement, i.e., "England ARE losing," "the family ARE here," "the court HAVE issued"....etc., etc., then, they are just plain, to use a good British expression, "nutters."

I'm sorry, but according to the OED my Old French derivation is correct.

The rare Old French variant spelling luef for Modern French lieu "place", on the other hand, supports the suggestion that the final /w/ of the Old French word was in certain environments apprehended as a /f/ /v/

I might add that loof in Old English is place as well.

Let me see if I got this right. Some Brit is horrified that anyone would question the proper pronunciation of English words as spoken in England.

But he questions the "bizarre" pronunciation of lieutenant as "loo tennant" yet seems totally content with thinking the logical pronunciation of that word would be "left tennant".

Did I sum that up right?

Do I get a prize?

Nope NeoPatrick,

Me the Brit, who hates having his pronounciation corrected, has not commented on the pronounciation of lieutenant.

Girlspy, you have lost me...

The court have issued???
The courts have issued.

In the Royal Navy, lieutenant is not pronounced "lef-TEN-ant" but rather "le-TEN-ant" (with a short "e").

waring, actually I was referring to a different Brit who said:

"We don't have to explain why English is spoken the way it is: the burden of explanation lies with speakers of odd foreign dialects

Why, for example, on the wrong side of the Atlantic do they pronounce lieutenant (= "place holder") as if it were spelt "lootenant"?"

Lef and Loo both work. Lef is simply older.

Anyway it should be "ljØ"

Lootenant in English English would be the holder of the toilet, which would perhaps explain why the pronounciation was never updated.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!!

Talk about bizarre pronounciations!!

Then please explain how the Americans get 'urb' for herb. That as always ad me ighly curious!

Erb for herb?

Being a French word, I would suggest that it's connected with the un-aspirated H in French, from where all us English speakers get 30% of our vocabulary.

Yooman is common for human (another Froggie word) as well on the Western end of the pond.

about the "Urb" for Herb, it's a factor of immigration.

During the 1600s and early 1700s, when there was the biggest influx of English settlers who would "set the tone" for the American way of speech, the word was most commonly pronounced "urb", so that's what "stuck" in the colonies. Over the centuries, the "h" found its way back in the UK, but Americans stayed with what was originally brought over.

This example of clinging to older modes of pronunciation and vocabulary is not unusual --- linguists have written and recorded extensively regarding the "odd" pronunciations and usages in the Appalachian mountains up through the 1930s and 1940s... demonstrating that the isolated communities had preserved older usages and pronunciations from 17th century UK.

Just one tiny example -- the useful word "fetch", which has been discarded almost everywhere else in the US, is still used in Grand Old Opry country.

(For those who don't know why it's so useful, it embraces the meanings of both get and bring -- it means -- go to another place and "get" (obtain) something, and bring it back here).

Americans don't use fetch outside this region?

What do you say when you throw a stick for a dog if not "fetch".

"Go, get and bring back"

I don't know about fetch but if what I've seen on TV is true (bit of an animal patrol addict) they don't say 'good boy' or 'good girl' or 'good dog' but 'good jaaaaaaaaaaaahb'(good job) in an odd squeaky elongated drawl, at everything including dogs, children, other adults, you name it.

Ah.... the differences between British and American. I'm an American teaching English using the British English Headway books. I keep my pronunciation American but when we come across a Brit only word, I also teach its US equivalent.

pants = trousers
pullover = jumper
eraser = rubber
rubber = condom (always good for a laugh)
etc.

Does it confuse my students? Not really. The Swiss have the same problem in their own language. The Baslers have a different dialect than the Urners. The Wallisers are the most difficult to understand.

In my area, the farmers still use the words, "Nidle, Anke and Gummel". They are only used in our region and are not often understood in other cantons.

Back to the OP: The pronunciation of Lieutenant is one of the ways you can distinguish between those who attended a first rank school and those who attended a minor public school.

It's one of the quasi-masonic ways we have of recognising one another. If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

waring, funny thing about "fetch" with a dog. Yes, I have heard it used, but not usually. I walk by a fairly large park nearly every day, and it is a prime spot for people throwing things for their dogs to bring back. I can't remember the last time I heard "fetch".

It's usually a very quick "go, get it", "comeon, boy, go get it".

Maybe all these people say that because their dogs are American born rather than English and the dog wouldn't understand "fetch"? LOL

schuler...to your equivalence list, I would also add:

suspenders = braces
garter = suspenders

As a mid-level U.S. naval officer seconded to the Royal Navy, early in my tour I went to the RN clothing store to ask for some "suspenders" for my mess dress uniform. Since the store was run by WRNS (Women in Royal Navy Service), I received some very interesting looks, and lots of laughter. What I should have asked for was "braces," since the women used "suspenders" for their stockings! Vive La Différence!!

Do Brits and Yanks pronounce the word "pedantic" the same?