Beware fish dishes sold by the kg at Acqua Pazza in Venice
 

We had a very nice dinner at Acqua Pazza in Venice. Lovely outdoor dining, good service, large portions...BUT we ordered a sea bass dish that was not priced on the menu, just listed as sold by the kg. They brought out several fish on a tray and then we picked the fish, but when the bill came this single dish cost 70 Euros! It was delicious but not worth 70 Euros even in expensive Venice! The rest of the meal was reasonably priced, especially given the large portion sizes...(keep this in mind when you are ordering as I think people tend to over-order here)....but when we questioned the cost of the fish dish, the waiter just shrugged.

Lobsters are sold by weight too.
You just have to ask how much it weighs and work out the cost.
Alternatively, you could ask for a certain weight, just as you would in a fish shop.

I was amused at the "large portions".
Perhaps it's because I am an elderly body, but that would put me right off.
My ideal meal is one of three courses where I leave the table satisfied but not uncomfortable.

You ordered a very high-priced species of fish. This is neither the waiter's nor the restaurant's fault. Asking for price and weight is entirely your own responsibility in such a situation.

No need to try to ruin a business by publishing an unjustified warning on the internet.

Fresh fish is sold by the kilogram in Greece as well. Since even fish of the same species are different sizes, it seems a fair way to do it. In Greece you choose a fish, have it weighed, and ask what it will cost. Simple. :-)

You knew ahead of time that the fish was priced by the kg, and then the price came as a shock to you? How did that happen? Didn't you ask how many kgs the fish you chose was and do the math? And why would you question the price, having been given the information you needed to make an informed decision? I'm shrugging too.

In LynAK's defense, this restaurant is known for urging you to try some dish not on the menu or "specially created for you", then charging you an arm and a leg for it.

I was there with a large group, one of whom went for the "created specially for you" when they had run out of his original order. I spoke just enough Italian to negotiate 50 euros off the price when the outrageous bill came.

In any restaurant in the world, when the waiter tells you the specials, you are crazy not to ask the price. Our companion was confused, and I was at the other end of the table where I couldn't see what was going on.

This is not a place I would go back to, despite its style and portions.

The price of a whole fresh fish can be shocking. In Croatia a 1st class fish could easily run $60 - a friend just got back from Greece, certain whole fish were around $60 euro. You would think destination where seafood is a way of life that it might not costs as much - but do to over fishing and now, transportation costs (and let's not forget our weak dollar) - it can get very expensive and that first time can be a shock. Is the restaurant trying to pull a fast one on me you might wonder - which is a reasonable reaction. Consider it a lesson learned and move on.

Next time - consider ordering just a fillet or just ask the full price of the fish first.

On a lighter note - a friend who was in Paris in May had an appetizer of 5 asparagus stalks with mousilline - 38E.

Food has noticeably gotten more expensive around the world over the past few years.

LynAK wrote:

"The rest of the meal was reasonably priced."

That's your first clue this wasn't a rip-off operation.

Visitors to Italy need to know that when you ask to eat a whole fish in Italy, you are going to pay for the WHOLE fish.

You are going to pay for what it cost the restauranteur to buy it, plus a service fee for cooking it and serving it to you cleaned and deboned.

You should ask how much the restaurant charges per kilogram. Most waiters in Venezia speak English.

Don't be surprised if a kilogram of fish in Venezia in expensive. A kilogram is 2.2 pounds -- even in America, raw fresh fish can run up to $18 per pound. Plus, you're not buying a filet. You're buying the whole fish -- and it's being completely prepared for you, delivered to your table, your dishes will be washed for you and you are sitting in one of the single most expensive places in the world with respect to fuel costs, transport costs, hiring costs, real estate costs, etc. You might as well be in Iceland.

I'd pay that for whole sea bass, the finest fish available. Wallow in the memory.

Even at home in L.A., I ask about the price of the "special of the day" before ordering.

Woody

LynAK - Sorry to hear about your 'surprise' sea bass. It's my personal favorite. Yet, 70 Euros/$110 does seem like a lot to me. Glad you posted as the discussion and insight will surely be helpful. Isn't Venice lovely?

>>Yet, 70 Euros/$110 does seem like a lot to me.<<

This fish surely served more than one person, right? I don't many people LynAK's "we" refers to. Even if it only two people, 35e per person for a fresh fish entree cooked to order, where you picked the fish, in a white-table cloth restaurant that sits in Campo S. Stefano in Venice is not some kind of plot against you.

By the way, I just googled up some info on this restaurant. It's signature dish is Neopolitan pizza, which makes it a favorite among Venetians (which may make the staff more impatient with tourists).

Here is another tourist's review of Acqua Pazza, plucked off the web:

"The portions were huge, and the antipasto should be shared. They brought out complimentary bruschetta as a starter, and we also had an insalata caprese and prosciutto. We shared a bottle of the house wine, which was fine.

Our waiter recommended a baked red snapper for two for dinner, stuffed with vegetables and shrimp. He brought the fish to our table for our approval before it went to the kitchen. Very spiny, ugly fellow (the fish, I mean). He was delicious, though! They removed the bones before serving, and presented it on a deep platter, swimming in a brothy sauce with potatoes, tomatoes, olives and shrimp. My mouth waters every time I think about that dinner...

After sitting with our wine, we decided to share a lemon cake for dessert. The waiter also brought by a bottle of orange liqueur. Wonderful. Although it cost 120 euros, this dinner alone would be worth going back to Venice!"

sorry -- I should have typed that Acqua Pazza is in the Campo Sant'Angelo, not Stefano.

Without weighing in on the OP diner

i've read from reliable sources that Venetian restaurants, or at least some of them, do indeed target wealthy American tourists for padding their bills - there is even a name for this that i do not recall.

They are one-time business and treated as such.

This is true in Roma as well. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to learn it happens all over Italy in the places with either enormous tourist crowds or very seasonal tourism.

Sometimes people think their bill has been padded when they've failed to see the cover charge on the menu. Meaning, it's not enough to look at the prices of the food on the posted menu before you sit down. Look at the service and cover ("coperte") charge. Most times that charge is nominal, but in places like the Portofino waterfront, the "coperte" can noticeably boost your bill.

<i>Our waiter recommended a baked red snapper for two for dinner, stuffed with vegetables and shrimp.</i>

If interested in reproducing this dish, go to p. 212 of Marcella Hazan's <i>Classic Italian Cooking</i>.

Zeppole -- that is interesting about their signature dish being Neapolitan pizza because I am virtually certain that the staff were mostly Pugliese rather than Veneziani!

From kaboodle:

Marcella Hazan says this place makes the best pizza in town (and there's plenty of competition)—a phenomenon she attributes to the owners being from Salerno. The thin-crusted pies are made with buffalo mozzarella and extra-virgin olive oil and baked in a brick oven.

http://www.veniceacquapazza.com/acquaen/index2.htm

HI L,

It is standard practice in Italy, and many other countries in Europe to sell fish by the kilo.

You should have asked the price before you ordered.

The resto did nothing to warrant a complaint.

It is also standard for steak Florentine to be sold by weight.

((I))

In most restaurants; whole fish, steaks, (good cuts), wild game, etc are all priced &quot;per etto&quot;, or quoted per kg.
Learn the Italian word etto, which means hectogramme or 100 grammes, about four ounces. Fish or steak dishes are frequently priced per etto, not per portion. Know the system, and save yourself a nasty shock when the bill comes.

Wow! I can't believe some of the negative responses. LynAK didn't say anything negative about the restaurant nor did she say she was ripped off. She is very kindly informing others about how they were billed so they won't make the same mistake.

I think it was the use of the word &quot;Beware&quot; in the title. Drives some people nuts...

Zpole - I said 'to me' it seems pricey. My empathetic note was to the OP as it seems many have chosen to badger him/her. Surely one is allowed an opinion without inviting attack.

just had dinner at acqua pazza last sunday night - a highlight of my stay in venice!! loved the homemade limoncello - sat at the table half the night. and the dessert was one of the happiest I've ever had. The fruits, chestnut and hazelnut ices placed back in the original shell were a bit pricy, but I'd order them again in a minute if I were there now!!

A good reminder to check prices, cover charges, and service charges (i.e., included in price or not), especially with specials.

We've had wonderful meals at Acqua Pazza, and its sister restaurant Massagnielo in the next campo. We are careful about what and how much we order as the portions are indeed generous. Some waiters at AP can be as fresh as their food, but the overall experience has been positive. Love the complimentary bruschetta and after dinner liqueurs as well, which to my mind trade off the coperto (probably 5 euro/person?). I prefer AP to the other one actually.

This may have been the OP's first trip to Italy. There are a lot of &quot;ins and outs&quot; about dining in Europe and most tourists aren't born knowing this already. I was told about a lot of the dining customs before ever going and consider myself lucky to have been informed.

I still made a few errors along the way, and it was sometimes awkward. I wasn't aware about the meat/fish kg thing that LynAK is talking about, so I may have found myself very much in her position. I'm glad she started this thread.

sorry if you felt attacked, cdg. it wasn't my intention. i only wanted to underscore the high cost that is typical for eating fresh fish in a very popular resto in the middle of venezia

Had this same experience in Greece and learned a lesson (only because we were trying to be somewhat economical). Somehow the price per kg sounds very small and Mr Fish doesn't look like he could possibly weigh that much! I agree with asking the weight of the fish and doing the math before agreeing to order it. The fish that we had was great but I probably wouldn't have picked it if I'd have been smart enough to try to figure out how much it cost before ordering it!

Well if I knew anything was sold by the KG my first question would be how much does what I'm getting weigh. To not ask would seem to indicaed you don;t care about the cost.

It's like not asking the cost of specials - they generally are considerably more than regular main courses - and If price was an issue I would always ask.

&quot;<i>but when we questioned the cost of the fish dish, the waiter just shrugged.</i>&quot;

The problem is you asked that <u>after</u> the meal. Your actual post seems totally fair - but your headline is pretty unfair. It is like the &quot;Beware of xyz hotel - they cheat you!!!&quot; Guerilla threads we get on here.

Better if it was something like &quot;Lesson learned - ask the price BEFORE you order&quot;

As it is - the title seems like Acqua Pazza did something wrong, which isn't the case.

Negative responses? I beg to differ. The OP clearly stated she was told that the sea bass was priced by the kg. She picked a fish, KNOWING that the dish she was ordering was priced by the kg. Apparently, she totally skipped the next step, which was asking HOW MANY KGS IS THIS FISH AND HOW MUCH WILL I OWE YOU?

Sure, it's great that she posts a notice that this is a common practice in Venice and elsewhere in Italy and elsewhere in Europe, but the title of the post, &quot;Beware Fish Dishes.....&quot; makes it sound like there was some kind of scam, when there clearly was not.

And the OP admits to questioning the price of the fish dish - WHY? He/she KNEW it was Xeuros per kg, so if he/she had asked &quot;how many kgs is this fish and how many euros will we owe?&quot; there would have been no surprises, no shocks.

It's good for anyone traveling to Italy, Greece, and maybe other Mediterranean countries to know of this practice, but let's not pretend that rstaurateurs are out to scam us when they tell you up front you're paying by the etto or kg.

I have gotten used to the price per KG deal, but we had a different experience in Portofino. We saw a single diner near us order a nice fish from a tray. They grilled the whole fish and served it to him. When the waiter brought the tray of fish, they were all very much the same size. When I asked how much they are per kilogram, he said, &quot;no, we charge the same -- 30 euros each&quot; or something like that. So we decided we'd both do the whole fish. We were surprised when they took that same size fish, and split it, giving us each half. I remarked to the waiter when he did it that we thought we were each getting a whole fish -- they weren't very large -- but he seemed surprised and apologetic and said, &quot;oh, I thought one fish for two&quot;. OK, we thought; we'll be paying 30 euros for one fish. But when the bill came we were charged for two fish. When I asked, he changed his story completely. &quot;Oh, no. I said it is 30 euro per person.&quot; No amount of discussion could make him see that there was something wrong with one person getting a whole fish for 30 euro, and two people getting the same whole fish for 60! When we spoke to the manager, he insisted that the fish must have been twice as big -- NO WAY. They literally were all the same size. Now THAT was a rip-off.

I'm surprised by the surprise - this isn't just a European practice.

I've been in a number of American sea-food restaurants (propper ones, not Red Lobster breaded-frozen places) that sell fish, crab and lobster by the pound. In fact it appeared quite common to see no price at all marked on the menu, the cost column just reading &quot;market price.&quot;

It's possible I was just on a run of luck picking unusual restaurants but I've eaten a number of times with my American in-laws who did not seem surprised by the practice.

Had me wondering too. I often see that particular brand of pricing here in the US. Yo ask beforehand how much the fish or lobster or steak weighs.

Once in London we sat next to a group of men having pasta with truffles. The truffle is brought to the table along wit a little scale . It is weighed in front of you, then shaved over the pasta until you say enough, then it is weighed again! The one man's pasta dish came to about $70.00. I hope he enjoyed it.

I'm the OP...and I have read all the responses and agree that my title is perhaps unfair to Acqua Pazza. This is a common practice at many restaurants in Europe (and yes, some in the US) and we just got snagged at this one. So I apologize for that error.

And I also agree that we erred in not asking the price up front...but we felt a little out of our element and we felt a little rushed by the waiter into getting the fish dish.

I wish I'd just put &quot;Beware buying fish by the kg&quot; because that is what I really meant. I will be more careful in the future.

There is a reason that 'caveat emptor' was originally coined in Latin!

someone should e-mail this thread to [email protected] - the restaurant's e-mail, to give them a chance to respond

and also to remind them that novice American tourists may jump to conclusions about getting ripped off (sadly rather common in Venice IMO) so that staff can take special pains to explain it all before serving

&quot;caveat emptor&quot; !! So true.

I don't think this thread will really hurt Acqua Pazza...perhaps it will even give it advertisement. The iced fruit dessert is really something unique and special. I would recommend it and many other dishes we had there as well.

It was our last night in Venice and we weren't being so careful about worrying about the prices as we ordered, which was our mistake.

However, I do think we were kind of taken in hand by the waiters there and they directed us to the whole fish. They quickly brought out several whole fish on a tray with a flourish and lovely presentation. I'm not saying this was wrong on their part..they are in the business of selling food and they were very skillful! We didn't resist or ask enough questions. I think this is a mistake that others could also easily make, so I hope this thread just tells people to be aware (much better than &quot;beware&quot;!)

I think people will generally have a great experience at Acqua Pazza but knowing in advance that they may be in this position might be helpful for some.

I think some of you have misdirected your comments. LynAK has not at any time claimed that they were ripped off by the restaurant. Her title wasn't even to beware of this restaurant. It was to beware of the fish dishes. Beware is not the same as AVOID. She acknowledged that they didn't understand and were surprised by the end result. She did not result to anger at the restaurant for what is clearly their custom -- and not unusual elsewhere. In fact her review does not indicate ONE unhappiness with the restaurant itself, only their surprise to find out how the fish &quot;works&quot;.

If someone warns to beware that in Tuscany a particular highway is closed and they had difficulty getting to their destination, do people get all bent out of shape and start saying the highway department should have a right to respond? Or do the other posters suddenly start calling the poster an idiot because he didn't check it out first.

This was a nice travel tip -- nothing more and nothing less. Thank you LynAK for posting it. Some people who are not as &quot;savvy&quot; as others surely will appreciate it and will also understand your reason for posting it. Those who already know everything there is to know and can't understand why everyone else doesn't also, will not understand this post.