Bernina Express or "Regular" train
 

I am going to northern Italy (Chiavenna and environs) and Zurich in March. I have only one week, and although I know that there's much more to see in this area, I would rather explore these two places in depth. Here's my question: is the Bernina express any more wonderful than the regular train from Como to Zurich? My logistics make the regular train a better choice. I imagine (and seem to have read somewhere) that there is very beautiful scenery on this run-of-the-mill train. But if someone can tell me the Bernina is much better, I'll try to make it work. Any other advice for this trip--things not to miss around Chiavenna, Sondrio, etc.--would be appreciated.

Nothing?? No advice from anyone? Come on, now...

Oh, you are very impatient. I apologise for doing some cross-country skiing yesterday and NOT responding to your questions ;-) LOL!

The regular trains from Como to Zurich go through the St. Gotthard massif and along the eastern shore of Lake Lucerne - which is scenic too, but the route Tirano - St. Moritz - Chur -Zurich is MUCH more scenic.

However, you have to backtrack through Sondrio to get to Tirano to catch the Bernina Express there. Very long. And getting to Como from Chiavenna is yet more inconvenient.

Why don't you take the Postal bus from Chiavenna to St. Moritz and catch the train from there to Zurich? That's the most convenient route!

And what about doing the Bernina Express on a day trip from Chiavenna? I am quite sure it is doable.

As for more recommendations on Chiavenna, I can only comment on the Bregaglia valley. Soglio is not to miss, and so is a hike (the Panoramica) from Casaccia along the northern side of the valley to Soglio with spectacular views of the mountains across the valley.

I must say, however, that March is not the best time for a visit. You cannot say if paths are still snow covered and the villages in the mountains will be very quiet - many restaurants and hotels closed - except in the skiing areas.

Thanks, Ingo. Very helpful advice. Let me rephrase my question. I'm renting a car at the Milan airport on a Sunday and driving to my hotel in Chiavenna. I need to get to Zurich on the following Thursday. Your advice about the Postal bus is good, but what to do about returning the car? The car is the only reason I was going to Como.

What makes Como so inconvenient?

Can I do Soglio as a day trip from Chiavenna? What do you recommend?

P.S. I was obviously thinking I should be rid of the car before I head for Zurich--where I don't need one--to save money and also to avoid traffic hassles.

I did not know you will have a car during your stay in Chiavenna. If you have to return the car in Como it makes sense to catch the train from there to Zurich. (indeed, no car needed in Zurich) Did you research if you can return the car in either Chiavenna or Tirano?

Yes, you can do Soglio as a daytrip from Chiavenna. It is only 15 km away. Postal bus runs every two hours from Chiavenna, change in Promontogno. Hm, I just made the connection March and Soglio ... in March Soglio will be deserted. I do not know if restaurants/hotels and the few shops will be open. The village is picturesque, though, and the views are spectacular. I am wondering if it might be better to drive up to Sils in the Engadin and participate in some winter/snow activities.

Wow, Ingo, you're terrific. Do you live in this area? I might have to pop in for cocoa! LOL!

Since my last post, have been scouting the net, and was reminded that I've always regretted not seeing the Villa Carlotta when I was at Como. So I'll try to work that in before I return the car. No, no car return in Chiavenna or Tirano.

I think it's a great idea to do the Bernina Express as a day trip (as far as Chur? Or San Moritz? I'm a bit confused about my options.)

I'll definitely do Soglio. I'm more interested in views and such than restaurants and shops. Will get plenty of that elsewhere.

As far as winter activities are concerned, I don't ski, unfortunately. Hiking, antiquing, gardens and architecture are my favorites.

No, I don't live in the area. I am from Dresden, Germany. But I am a very frequent traveller to Switzerland and the Engadin/St. Moritz area in particular. Have been there so many times that I was able to explore also the neighbouring valleys in depth.

There is a connection from Chiavenna to Tirano by trains:

Chiavenna dep. 9.17
Colico arr. 9.48
Colico dep. 10.39
Sondrio arr. 11.10
Sondrio dep. 11.15
Tirano arr. 11.50

In Tirano you'll have an hour for lunch (there are a couple of pizzerias and restaurants near the railway station) or exploring the old town (5 min. walk) or seeing the basilica (pilgrim church, 10 min. walk the other direction).

Then you can hop on the regional train which runs on the Bernina route to St. Moritz

Tirano dep. 12.49
St. Moritz arr. 15.12

You'll miss the bus to Chiavenna by 4 minutes - too bad, but Swiss buses run in time :-) The next bus to Chiavenna leaves 17.08 and arrives Chiavenna 18.51.

You could spend your time in St. Moritz walking up to the town's centre and maybe having a cappuccino and yummy cake at Hanselmann's café or maybe taking a bus to Sils-Maria (where the next bus to Chiavenna stops too) and walking around this charming village, having a coffee (or hot chocolate) somewhere in a nice cafe or hotel lobby there. (Sils is much more charming than St. Moritz).

So far for now. If you more ideas post here.

Ingo

What wonderful information! My partner will be thrilled, as he wants to be able to tell everyone he's going to St. Moritz for Spring Break! He'll be glad to know that we'll actually have a couple of hours there.

Now, when you get a chance, what is the best website for tickets both on the Bernina Express and on the Como-Zurich train? Or should I wait until I get there? Any advice will be welcome, as you are quite the expert.

Was in Dresden about 10 years ago, and liked it very much. Is the Nordsee still operating? I ate many a herring sandwich there. And how's that Frauenkirk coming along?

Hahaha - spring break in St. Moritz ... March is still winter season there! It will be a nice change after seeing the spring flowers around Lake Como in bloom.

You can buy the train tickets at the Chiavenna railway station for the Chiavenna - Tirano - ST. Moritz leg of the day trip (and for Como-Zurich). The ticket for the bus can be purchased either at the railway station in St. Moritz or directly from the bus driver. No problem at all.

Another quick note for Tirano: there are two train stations in this town, both adjacent to each other. One is for the Italian, the other for Swiss trains. Easily to recognise when I was there a few years ago - the Italian was the shabby one :-)

What a nice surprise that you have been to Dresden! Yes, the Nordsee is still operating, moreover, a second one was opened two years ago. And the Frauenkirche is completed and has been dedicated just a few months ago - Oct 30 2005. (still) Long lines to get in for sightseeing, though. I was very fortunate to attend a concert of the New York Philharmonic there in November, which was a true highlight.

Ingo

Excellent! So there is zero chance the Bernina Express will be sold out by then? That would be a huge tragedy.

Glad to know the two most important institutions of Dresden are up and running! LOL!

The regional train from Tirano to St. Moritz in the schedule I posted above is not an Express train, but runs the same route - same views. And, by the way, March is low season for the Bernina Express ...

You cannot make reservations for regular trains and so it cannot be sold out. I am sure you can choose between a dozen of available seats after entering the train ...

Wow! I'm glad you told me about the train! I'd have been very confused.

All of this is excellent news, and VERY helpful. I may be posting "Looking for Ingo" as my departure date (March 18th) approaches. THANK YOU!

You're welcome! However, no need to address me in the title. Other might also jump in ... and anything in the title referring to this area is enough to catch my eyes ;-)

Wish you a great trip,

Ingo

Guy18,

I hope that you have a good trip.

Just so that you know The train ride over the Bernina pass is not 'run of the mill'. I have been told it is one of two only two train routes on the UNESCO World Heritage List (the other being the Dargeeling narrow guage ride in India.) The Bernina is a photographer idea of heaven. At points it is higher up than the ski resorts along its path. (well above the tree line at times).

When we went we made reservations from/in the U.S. It was not possible to get tickets in the U.S. but it is possible to get a reservation.

Thanks Doble. By "run-of-the-mill" I was referring to the regular train from Como to Zurich, not the Bernina which I've heard is spectacular. I must not have been clear.

Not a problem at all.
I not been to Europe as much as many posters here, but I have ridden the Bernina (Twice actually. once up and then back the next day :) ).

This may not affect you but passenger trains go up and down the Bernina Pass almost hourly. The Bernina Express has special panoramic windows (and will not allow you to get off at one or two small stations). My point is that there are hourly trains going over the same train track as the Express, thay are maybe 'just as good' and one of those just might be better for your schedule.

I would have liked to have had an open car for photos, but there were none.

Thanks for telling me this. Ingo already informed me, and it's very valuable information. I don't really care how big my window is. I would rather have a flexible time-table.

Hi everyone, I saw the words "Bernina" and "photographer's paradise" in this thread and just had to ask a question. First time to Switzerland.

We're taking the first morning train from Venice to Tirano just so that we can get on the Bernina. We want to take the local trains so that we can stop to take photographs of the trains passing over some high bridges, like the ones in their advertisements hopefully! What is a good town to stop at and any suggestions of how to time this properly so that we don't arrive too late at Chur? We need to spend the night in Lucerne. Thanks!

It seems like getting in a good position would be tough. Maybe if you looked (on a detail map) at where the road is near the train tracks (and it often is) then that would show you were you might want to be.

If you want the easy way out, then the rail line sells photo packages, postcards, etc.

It looks like the Venice to Tirano time is about 13 hours. (It took us 5 hours to drive from the North end of LAke Garda to Tirano.)

tagging

For perth2europe,

I'm not sure I'm understanding your request -- do you intend to go Venice-Tirano-Chur-Luzern in one day? That's madness. Have you checked the train schedule at www.rail.ch (Swiss rail website)? The trip runs from 13h21 with seven changes, or 12h21 with six changes, or 14h04 with three changes. You would be starting from Venice at 06.00 and arriving in Luzern at 19.25 or leaving at 08.03 and arriving at 22.38. That's without stopping for photos.

I suggest you build in a stop, maybe in Poschiavo or Pontresina.

But let's see, to actually answer your question -- I don't think there is a *stop* where you can see the bridges; the stops are in towns. I did stop with a friend at Alp Gruem and enjoyed staring at the glacier. You can get off anywhere and hike, either toward Poschiavo or toward Pontresina.

Good luck!

s

Sorry, meant to say "overnight stop," not just a stop, in Poschiavo or Pontresina.

s

Unfortunately I have to agree with the previous posters. No chance to get off the train somewhere and take some quick snapshots of high bridges. The most famous bridge is probably the Landwasser viaduct - but you have to hike there from Filisur (30 min. at least).

Yes, break up your ride and stay overnight in either Poschiavo or Pontresina (or Samedan).

I.

Thanks for the replies!

Here’s the explanation to my madness. Of course this is coming from a totally inexperienced traveller so I’m really open to more feedback. If I’m being unrealistic, it’s better to be told now so I can readjust, rather than have the plan flop.

Okay here goes:

The day before the Bernina ride, we have our only full day in Venice which is why I’d like to stay overnight there. The other option is to leave Venice on overnight train to Tirano via Lugano. The day after the ride, we have our only full day in Lucerne which is why I’d like to arrive there at night so that we don’t waste the next morning travelling to it.

And the reason for this whole rush is because I reeeaally want to squeeze the Bernina ride in, otherwise I know I’ll forever regret not doing it.

I’ll go with the recommended stopover at Poschiavo (but only for a couple hours unfortunately). Swandav2000, I like the idea of stopping somewhere and hiking there. We’re very active people, but we’ll have backpacks.

Should we get down at the 2 to 3 stops before or after Poschiavo? Downhill is of course the preferred direction :)

6:01 Venice – Tirano arrive 12:42
12:49 Tirano – ?? short hike to Poschiavo
15:15 Poschiavo – Chur arrive 19:03
19:16 Chur – Luzern arrive 21:25 zzzz...

If we miss the first Tirano train then we’ll take the next 14:50 one with no break at Poschiavo. I’m guess being on the train will be worthwhile enough, even if we don’t get to stop along the way?

I think this is a really crazy idea for several reasons:

You are spending only one day in Venice, which IMO is a complete waste of time, money and effort. You will be totally rushed and can't begin to see or appreciate anything of the city. If you are arriving or departing on overnight trains you will be exhausted.

Your trip on the Bernina and through the gorgeous Engadine is in early May a VERY IFFY time weather-wise in the mountains. You are very likely to have rain and fog on your one day.

You are rushing to spend one day in Lucerne, the most overrated place in Switzerland and are rushing through the Engadine, the most underrate, untouristed (by Americans) and one of the most beautiful in Switzerland (May notwithstanding). For gorgeous photos, the painted houses of the little village of Guarda are hard to beat, and this area is excellent walking (but again May is very iffy for this).

Yes the Bernina is a great train ride, but IMO not worth skipping Venice to do it and really kind of chancy in May and if you can't be flexible with your dates, i.e. you only have one day. I really urge you to rethink this. Either give up Switzerland, which I would do and leave it for a better time of year, or give up Venice.

If you want to take picutres of trains, you are of course going to MISS THE ACTUAL BERNINA EXPRESS TRAIN, as that train only runs once a day. You will then be on a regular Rathische Bahn train, which is fine, only it will be a local, making more stops, you may have to change, and there won't be any panorama cars. So the whole reason you wanted to go will kind of be gone, and it may take even more time to get to Lucerene from Venice.

IF you still want to do this, here are some options:

1. From Tirano, consider taking the Post Bus, rather than the train, and get off at points where you can see trains passing over bridges or coming out of tunnels which interest you. The road from Tirano goes up and over the pass, it follows the same route as the train for much of it, and veers off in others, in either case giving vantage points of the tracks. I believe this is much better than trying to do it by train, as you are not allowed to walk on the tracks and it is dangerous to do so in any event. Even better, you can send your luggage on to other Post Bus stations further down the line to wait for you (i.e. you could send it to Poshavio or Pontresina, collect it and get on a train from there.) I don't believe there is a website for Post Bus schedules, they do show up on the rail.ch schedule as "BUS", but there does not seem to be a website for bus schedules alone. You can get printed ones at train stations and Post Bus stations in Switzerland, perhaps someone living in Switzerland currently could look up schedules for Tirano and post them.

2. Do a Google search for something like "vantage points for viewing Bernina Pass trains" or similar; there are a lot of train enthusiasts out there and I would not be at all surprised if there were websites on the best places to go along the road over the pass to see the trains.

3. Take a look at the website for the Rhatische Bahn, the company which runs the Bernina, you might be able to e-mail hem and ask where the best vantage points are. Go to rhb.ch

4. I agree that the Landwasser viaduct would be good pictures and that valley in particular is spectacular. (This is the valley between St Mortiz to the southeast and Chur northwest.) I think you could get decent pictures without a very strenuous or long walk by getting off a train at Wiesen, it is quite close to the viaduct and there is a very good walking trail here that as I recall, has views of the viaduct. I would Google the Landwasser Viaduct and see if pictures come up so you can get an idea. Note that you CANNOT take the Bernina Express trains to get off in Wiesen, this is a local station, you have to take the regular Rhatische Bahn/Swiss Rail trains, which are the same charming little red trains, just no panorama cars.

I hate to disagree, but I must make some corrections to Cicerone's post.

1. There are no Postal buses running over the Bernina Pass. Buses run at several parts of the route (e.g. Brusio - Poschiavo) but not frequently and they have to run on the road, which leaves out the most spectacular part of the Bernina TRAIN pass route - between Poschiavo and Ospizio Bernina.

4. Wiesen is not a stop on the Bernina route. It is located north of that Landwasser viaduct toward Davos - a completely different thing. Wiesen has its own impressive viaduct, which is probably what Cicerone referred to. No chance for you to see it. For a spectacular mountain/glacier view get off at Alp Grüm like swandav mentioned. What would you do with your luggage on a hike? Dragging with you? Yikes! Poschiavo is a small, beautiful town where you could leave your luggage at the train station and walk around.

In general I must say, stopping somewhere on such a long day of train travelling is a crazy idea IMO. I would enjoy the scenery passing by, taking photos and look forward to my room and bed in Luzern.

Ingo

Thanks Ingo and Cicerone! I think I'll stick with the 12.42 train and just stop at Poschiavo to wander around and pick up lunch. Hopefully I'll have some good pics to post when I get back. Even without the trains, I should be able to get some good shots along the way :)