Berlin, Paris, London: 2 weeks, 3 people
 

I'd like to thank you in advance for replying and helping me.

We (3 of us) are looking to go to Europe (Berlin, Paris, London) for 2 weeks flying from Los Angeles to Berlin, taking a train to Paris and London, then flying back to Los Angeles from London (or going back to Paris just to fly from there, depending on if it's cheaper or not). We enjoy eating out, but not for every meal, so we are looking to rent houses/condos/town homes/apartments or hotel suites that have at least 1 bedroom and a full kitchen (at least 3-4 stars rating) - we don't want to stay in hostels. This will probably be our only time to go to Europe in a long time, so we want to have a decently luxurious stay.

My first question is, how much would it cost with airfares, train fares, accommodations (12-11 nights), eating out, souvenirs, metro fares, taxis, pocket money, and sight seeing for 3 adults?

My next question is, how log should we stay in each location?

Thank you!

Your budget can be all over the places depending on where the apartments are located (hotels VERY rarely have kitchen facilities more than a mini-fridge), how often you eat out and where, how much night life you want and what type.

You really need to start to build a zero base budget by:

Checking out airfares for your dates

Looking at sample apts in each city - Berlin is cheap and London quite expensive - at a distance from the center you would be comfortable with (walking distance, 15 minutes on transit or ?)

Checking out train fares (Paris to London fares work like air tickets, the cheapest fares go first - starting 90 days out - and the highest can be double or triple the lowest)

Decide what percentage meals you will eat out - and assume prices for similar types of meals will be 1/3 to 1/2 more than in the US

For sights you can just google each one and see the price (in the UK many museums are free) but other sights can be $20 to $25 each.

I would assume miscellaneous of $25 at least per person per day for an ice cream, a drink in a cafe, and local trams or whatever

People can pull a number out of the air - but without your doing this that number can be off by 50% or more

And 11 days for 3 major cities will be expensive. Travel time between Berlin and Paris will eat up a day.
Your cost can be huge or moderate. We know nothing about your travel habits o even desires.
Your question is equivalent to asking "how long is a string".

You can easily look up most of this information yourself and only you can answer most of these questions as you know when you're going.

Go to United or Lufthansa and check fares. For trains to and from Germany use bahn.de

For trains from Paris to London use the Eurostar site. Check pricing 60 to 90 days ahead for discounted rates.

Food prices depend on how much and what you like to eat. It can be as little as E20 per person for dinner or E100 per person.

Sightseeing prices are listed on the particular sight web site. For example, ticket prices for the Eiffel Tower are listed on their web site. Only you know what sights you want to see.

I can no more tell you how much pocket money and souvenir money you'll need than you can tell me how much I'll need. This is so subjective.

How much time in each location? 5 days in each city plus you'll need travel time between cities.

For accommodation in Germany, use the websites www.hrs.de or www.booking.com . Both will have aparthotels or serviced apartments, or you can just google (for example) 'Berlin holiday apartments' or 'Berlin Ferienwohnungen'. That will give you a good idea of base price per night, and then you will have to make enquiries promptly to see if the properties are available when you want to travel - it may be hard to get your first choice.

Lavandula

>>My first question is, how much would it cost with airfares, train fares, accommodations (12-11 nights), eating out, souvenirs, metro fares, taxis, pocket money, and sight seeing for 3 adults?<<

As the others say -- That is an totally unanswerable question. Go about it the other way around . . . How much do you have for the trip? You must have <i>some</i> idea of how much you want to/can spend. Then we can tell you if your numbers are realistic. Everyone has a different travel style. From our histories posting here on Fodors I know that nytraveler generally spends more/stays at posher places than I do -- but we both travel on 'reasonable budgets' . . . for the types of places we stay/where we go.

>>(at least 3-4 stars rating)<< Star rating doesn't mean very much in Europe. It really only tells you what sort of amenities are provided -- nothing about quality or even about cost. Though of course a 4 star place will normally cost more than a 2 star . . . there are many 2 star hotels that are preferable to some 4 star's.

And few hotels will have the "Full" kitchen you seek. Some will have a mini fridge and microwave or tea kettle -- but a kitchen is not nearly as common as in the States. Heck, even some 2 bedroom, self catering apartments only have kitchenettes.

Thank you for all the replies.

I was just looking to find some information of an average price range based on the never of people (3) and hotel rating (3-4 stars) or home rental (1-2 bedrooms). I'd say we would probably eat out 2 times a day. We will likely always eat lunch out and then maybe eat breakfast or dinner split an equal amount of times during our trip. We would eat at place like cafés and restaurants - not places like McDonalds. We would likely be going in July, August, or early September of 2015.

I understand a price range can very greatly, but I was hoping that based on the time of year we would like to go, the hotel room star rating or amount of bedrooms in a home of some sort, going to the typical attractions, eating out twice a day, average metro ticket prices, etc. someone could at least give me an average price range.

I have no idea what things cost over there, so what a meant by "pocket money" was money for things we didn't think about that we would want/need to pay for.

Also, we are unable to determine a price range. This trip is being gifted to us for our honeymoon. Family and friends are donating to a honeymoon registry rather than giving us gifts. Once we know how much our family and friends have given, we then will figure out how much we can add to it. But if even then we cannot afford to get the 3 of us there we will wait another year to continue saving. Hence, why I am asking of an average price range. I am unsure of a number we should go by. I'd like to say $10,000, but I have no idea if that would get us nice hotels, good food, souvenirs, train tickets, plane tickets, and enough spending money for 3 people.

OK, I have to ask...three people on a honeymoon? Can we then assume that one of the three is a child?

The previous suggestions were spot on. You need to do a little research and then come back with a basic plan. It is easy enough to look up the airfare and hotel costs. That along with what you find you want to see will determine for you how many days you should stay in each city. Having been to all three I would at this point tell you to divide your time equally as each of the cities you choose have tons of interesting sights.

Planning is half the fun. Enjoy!

Let me try to explain this again.

You can look up accurate prices on the internet. For instance, you can look up metro/underground ticket prices for London, Paris, and Berlin on line. About E1.5 to E2.5 per trip. There are also transportation passes you can buy.

Hotels - I just booked a double room in Berlin for $100 a night including breakfast. I have no idea if this hotel would suit you but it suits me fine as I'm on a budget.

Good food is subjective. Budget E50 per person for dinner. You can spend more or less but it's up to you to determine what good food means and how much you want to spend.

If you read some guide books and do some preliminary research you will have a more definite idea of what the trip will cost. It seems that you are reluctant to even look up airfare prices. That would be a starting point.

>>I just booked a double room in Berlin for $100 a night including breakfast.<<

Which wouldn't be anywhere near possible in London. Plus you are talking about 3 . . . 3 what - 3 adults? 2 adults and a teenager, 2 adults and a 6yo? 2 adults and an infant? The answer to that makes a HUGE difference when booking hotels in Europe.

So again, we can't really tell you how much this trip might cost.

Lets try it another way - "How much does a car cost?". A compact Ford - not much. A Mercedes or Porsche - LOTS. Are they all cars - yes. Would each get you where you are driving - sure. For some the Ford is the prefect car. For others -- a Porsche Cayenne. So how much does a car cost . . .

(FYI For London - 3 adults or teenagers you'd need spend about $300 for a nice-ish but not posh place. Or around $200 double it for a down market triple.)

You might also need to factor in the ease/difficulty of getting apartments for a small number of nights at a time.

"Budget E50 per person for dinner."

"FYI For London - 3 adults or teenagers you'd need spend about $300 for a nice-ish but not posh place. Or around $200 double it for a down market triple."

This is the type of info I'm looking for. This helps be figure out how much I may need to budget for.

It will be my fiancé and I plus his teen.

I understand I can look things up, which I have, but most things I keep seeing are for people on a tight budget, for 1 person, or for 2 people also on a tight budget.

So the info others have given me are the type of quotes I'm looking for. If dinner is about €50, what is a safe/average number to go by for lunch? Breakfast?

If we (2 adults, 1 teen) will need to look at spending $300 for a nice-ish place in London, what about Paris and Berlin?

Thank you everyone. I really do appreciate it.

<< but most things I keep seeing are for people on a tight budget, for 1 person, or for 2 people also on a tight budget. >>

I really don't understand how this is possible if you go to the sights where you buy tickets or book hotel rooms as you were directed, above. Sightseeing web sites do not have any reference to one's budget. They give actual prices.

Lunch is E10 to E15; breakfast is about E10.

If your teen starts ordering cokes or other soft drinks you'll need to up that budget by E10 to E30 per day.

Just a quick suggestion, take a look at easyjet.com for cheap flights but look carefully as there are many restrictions and add ons. I flew Berlin to Paris in February for around $100usd round-trip but I also booked at least 6 months out.

OK, I can't help myself...leave the teen at home. People are gifting for your honeymoon not a family vacation.:-)

Teen boy or girl and how big an appetite? when my B was in his teens he could empty the fridge in about half an hour and portions are typically smaller in europe than in the US. Soft drinks are about $3 and up for a tiny can - so for a teen drinking a lot of soda - and wanting ice which is hard to get - you probably need to allocate $20 just for soft drinks - unless they are old enough for wine or beer (16).

We hae breakfast at the hotel - whether included or not. For a casual sit down lunch we figure 20 euros and up. For dinner we figure 50 euros per person at an actual restaurant - basic meal with modest wine. We generally do one "special" dinner in each country - and figure $250 to $300 for that for the 2 of us - but can be more for a special restaurant - Jules Verne at eiffel Tower - that is good food and a special site.

Can;t help with apts since we do only hotels. But with a teen you may want to look at a 2 BR, 2 bath (fairly rare) and not inexpensive. Just go to some of the websites and see what the prices are.

As for airfare - look at Kayak now - next year won't be any cheaper. (A quick look shows flights to be about $1800 per person LAX to Berlin and London to LAX - expect next summer to be similar - so $5500 just for airfare for 3. If you figure $4K for lodging and $4k for food and sights - that is a total of $15,500 - and I think that is cutting it close - if you are asking for any level of "luxury".

I would not rely on that as a number for anything - but since you seem not to want to research anything yourself it's a place to start.

And note - this is not "luxury" except the special dinners - this is pleasant neighborhood places (similar prices to NYC).

"OK, I can't help myself...leave the teen at home. People are gifting for your honeymoon not a family vacation."

Since my fiancé was "2-for-1" we are taking his teen girl with us. Not to mention she would be devastated if we went without her. I would also feel guilty. This opportunity won't get again soon, so we want her to experience Europe as well.

She has a decent appetite and we would be getting sodas or coffee with our meals. So, I guess it would be more like an additional €30/day.

"I would not rely on that as a number for anything - but since you seem not to want to research anything yourself it's a place to start." =)

It's not that I don't want to research, I was just hoping for some info from people who have actually been there and give me some numbers to be able to guesstimate the amount we would need for all 3 of us to go. It's also good to know $15K gets some luxury but not much. So we may need to save closer to $20K for some more luxury. THAT is what I wanted to know as well as the Brasov break down that was also given. Thank you!

<< So, I guess it would be more like an additional €30/day. >>

That would be per person.

Coffee is normally served after the meal. That's not to say that you won't get it with the meal but it's unusual so the server might not understand when you want the coffee.

>>That's not to say that you won't get it with the meal but it's unusual<<

That's not to say that you won't get it with the meal but it's <i>highly</i> unusual . . .

Almost everywhere -- coffee is an after dinner drink -- and usually after dessert.

I will give you a budget to start on. You are a year away so it will probably be more, but.
You have 3 main outlays--which as others have pointed out you could already have a handle on--but I'll go ahead.
People have told you cokes are expensive. Minutiae but WILL be important when you get there.
Air fare from LA. I would be shocked if you could get to Berlin, Paris or London for less than $1200 per person. So you have $3600-$4000 to start.
You are staying 11-12 days in Europe. Get over the star categories you keep bringing up and others say “doesn’t translate to European grading of hotels”. You need two rooms or a family room. You won’t find kitchenettes. So 12 days at an average (lowish I think) of $300/night (and probably not attainable in any of your cities). Another $3600.
Breakfast at hotels unless included can be expensive. Continental breakfast in a café near hotel—maybe 10E (that is $13—start thinking about the exchange rate) each.
Lunch—could have a picnic from a “deli”—maybe 10E each
Dinner at a middle of the road place but very nice in Europe 30E each without wine or soda—but tip included. So that gets to be about our budget of 50E per person when we travel—but we have extra for splurges during the trip. You can eat your main meal at noon at a nice restaurant so just reverse these charges. So for 12 days, 50E ($60+) Another $3600-$4000.
So we are at a pretty bare bones budget in excess of $10,000.
AND we haven't started on transportation between these 3 cities for 3 people. haven't talked about airport transfers. Museums, sites entry fees.
If you will only have that amount contributed for this, then you need to start saving your pennies to add to it. Or you need to make it a shorter trip. Or you need to leave someone at home.

To illustrate the rating system's foibles, I just looked up the rate for a triple room at the Hotel Muguet in Paris--our favorite hotel. it is a 2* but as everyone agrees, it is at least a 3*.
Their triple room, internet rate, 4 night rate is 265E ($300+ not doing the math). that would be a great choice--near the Eiffel Tower, great restaurants nearby, nice breakfast room if you want it, near two metros and 4 bus lines.
Others know some elsewhere but probably in a similar price.
You can stay in "budget" hotels like Ibis, Accord, etc., have squeaky clean rooms--and have two rooms. Then you have money to spend outside your hotel room, and not on the sleeping arrangements.
You may need to recognize you ARE on a budget, and start prioritizing what you will spend you dollars on.

You will not get "luxury" on a budget of $10,000. In fact, for 3 people for 2 weeks and including airfare, I wouldn't imagine you could get bare bones for $10,000. Perhaps it would help if you researched airfares, specific hotels and checked the web sites of a few restaurants and major sights.

The $15000 K is not what I would call "luxury". A "luxury hotel can be anywwhre from $500 to $1000 nights for a coupe - more for a triple. The prices you got are for moderate.

It covers mostly fairly modest sit down meals - so you won't have to eat a sandwich taken out of a supermarket on a neaarby bench.

You need to include plane or train from Berlin to Paris and train from Paris to London. The latter need to be bought 90 days in advance when they go on sale - the latter you wait to buy them the higher (often MUCH higher) the price will be.

And you will need to search to get an apartment suitable with 3 adults with a full kitchen for that amount (hotels DO not have kitchens in which you can cook meals). And for renting apartments 6 months is advance is getting to be late to start getting your reservations. $300 per night is probably quite doable in Berlin, iffy in Paris and not realistic in London in a decent central area.

Will try to clarify more for you what people mean by the star rating not being meaningful in Europe. In Europe, the stars have little to do with quality or luxury. They simply imply amenities like an on-site restaurant, pool, elevators, 24 hour desk service, etc. You can have a very ratty hotel but it rates 4 stars because it has those things. You can also have an old hotel with wide stairs, no pool, no restaurant, etc. that is still gorgeous and well located, but rates only 2 stars.

Seriously consider doing only London and Paris and take the train between. Berlin may be cheaper, but you have the cost of transport for three people between. You could rent an apartment (with two bedrooms) in each city and see some things outside, but close to each city.

Depending on ticket cost, you might save by booking one day over another, but have to shave a day or so off the trip.

Also, you are going at peak time for airfare tickets. If you can wait until mid September, tickets might drop, especially on some airlines. Last year, we got RT, NY to Paris for $610.00 on XLFrance.

Join some websites like travelzoo to see if any special deals pop up. They might not be for Paris and London, but some other place might appeal and be a better value.

Another two cents of advice. DD and SIL were in same situation and DD really liked her SD, also around 13. DD thought she would feel guilty if they did not take her and the child contributed to their guilt, so they took her on their honeymoon. It was totally ruined by the child, who is normally a very nice kid. On their honeymoon, however, she was homesick, had day long fits of boredom, did not want to do anything they wanted to do, did not like the food, wanted only to shop or text friends back home, etc. etc. Since she wasn't happy, nobody was happy, plus they had not a moment alone. It was a very expensive purchase of a lot of misery and, unfortunately, set the tone for the future. Two for one is great, but if even the honeymoon does not focus on the adult couple, nothing else ever will. DD has huge regrets (and some anger) about it. Could you promise to save up and send her on a student trip when she is 15 or 16?

Some good estimates above. I'd look at different numbers and I have no flight info as I live in Europe and in sterling as I'm a Brit.

I would move my traval plans to early July to try and keep the costs down (June would be better). Then I'd assume you can get two rooms for £160 a night total (using premiertravelinn and Ibis type hotels). Breakfast taken locally say £24 for the trio, lunch at £36 and supper at £90 for the trio. Daily fun and snacks £60 and movement between cities £150. Obviously taking out a city reduces the costs by £150.

So 2 weeks hits ~£4750 or $8000 Hotels would be basic but clean with A/C. Hope that helps.

I am having a problem thinking either June or July could be cheaper? It is certainly high season for air fares from the US.
But good info for London part I would imagine.

>>It's not that I don't want to research, I was just hoping for some info from people who have actually been there<<

Most people answering you have not been where you are going, or if they have, they have not been there in years and YEARS. Hence the need to do your own research.

By the way, a good way to get a sense of prices for hotels is use booking.com and put in fictional dates that generally correspond to the dates you would be traveling.

Honestly, I thank you all so much!

I'm now realizing maybe $20,000 is what we would need for the 3 of us to visit the 3 cities comfortably (yes?). We are willing to postpone the honeymoon until we have enough money to go to the 3 cities, but we would still only be able to go in July, August, or early September because of my fiancé's teen needing to attend school. Missing 2 weeks of school is just too much.

I appreciate everyone letting me know the star system is bogus in Europe and not something to go by. Here in the states it's something everyone goes by. Since we do want a kitchen to cook in, it's looking like we should be renting a home of some sort.

The reason why we are going to these 3 cities are because we each chose a place we wanted to visit. I am not willing to leave my future SD at home. We have gone on every trip with her, with the exception of 1, and they have all been great. We know we will want privacy, which is why I am looking for places with at least a separate 1 bedroom and a pull out couch in the living room, or a 2 bedroom if we are able to find a good price.

Thanks again everyone! All your responses are really helping me!

<< the star system is bogus >>

It's not bogus. It means something completely different than it does in the US. Just because something is different doesn't mean that it's not legitimate. It is something to go by, depending on your criteria.

the star system is bogus in Europe and not something to go by. Here in the states it's something everyone goes by. Since we do want a kitchen to cook in, it's looking like we should be renting a home of some sort.

As is said--it is very real, and not bogus at all. It may be even more reliable than what you think is true in the US. THAT is NOT what we told you, for heaven's sake.

And finding an apartment (whine-we need a full kitchen) for short rentals may not be easy, especially since you seem unable to search for things.
There are ways to spend 5 days at a time IN a hotel room without a kitchen and still be on a budget.

The star system in Europe is valid and just another way to assess a hotel. It is very important for people looking for certain things: restaurant in a hotel that is not close to cafes, etc. parking if they are driving, elevator if they can't navigate stairs, etc.

Americans may not even think to ask about those things because we are so used to Holiday Inn type places even in rural towns, and used to having a car except in major cities, but I have stayed in beautiful hotels that had no elevators or only something tiny to haul luggage. I have stayed where there was no restaurant within an easy walk and I had no car. Do not assume elevators in apartment buildings unless they are listed. Newer buildings and current renovations include these things, but there are still wonderful old hotels in small towns and even some in cities where there are two or three flights of winding stairs. Stars come into play for these things in the old buildings of Europe.

Since you have already traveled with future SD, it sounds as if you will be fine and have a good time.

Look for apartments on airbnb. You have to join to book, but I had very good luck with them, renting both small houses and apartments. There will not be any stars or ratings of any kind to guide you, but you can ask about location, etc. here on Fodors.

If there is any way you can begin and end the trip mid-week, flights can be two or three hundred dollars cheaper from Wed-Wed, than from Sat-Sat.

Even a full kitchen in European apartments or houses may be tiny, having only a cook top, sink, very small refrigerator, and small counter or table top for food prep. People tend to shop local markets often, even daily, and do not stock up and store things the way we do.

The last house I rented had even a dish washer and a small pantry, but the kitchen was the back wall of the living room. The stairs were narrow with turns. We left luggage downstairs; we are too old and tired to lug it up. The second bedroom was third floor, kind of loft, with a steep ladder. Look at pictures carefully.

It was actually one of my favorite places, ever, a real little house, one small room on each floor, painted bright colors, orange and blue. I cried when we left.

For only a few days at a time, you do not need much. In cities, you can buy cheese, bread and fruit and picnic in a park, especially in summer. Stay open, hang loose, embrace the differences.

Factor in that what you are looking at in terms of budget could go up if you're a year out with the exchange rate.

xe.com will give you an idea.

If you can't afford to go to 3 cities, why not discuss picking one and enjoying that city? Sounds like this is meant to celebrate uniting as a family. Don't put it off. Celebrate

AimeeHoag: no one said the star system is bogus? It isn't. You just need to know what the stars mean . . . and don't mean.

sandralist/zeppole: >>Most people answering you have not been where you are going, or if they have, they have not been there in years and YEARS.<<

Now THAT is bogus >) Most everyone posting has been to each of those places multiple times.

Try looking at VRBO.com for apartments in each city. We have used it all over the world with good luck.

As for costs and sights in each city why not have the person who picked the city do the leg work? Having some skin in the game makes it more interesting for everyone.

However, I still think you should be honeymooning as just a couple. She is old enough to understand that and may in fact opt for the idea of you helping her study abroad someday. I doubt she is going to make her own honeymoon a foursome.

Barblab, the idea of study abroad is great.

Kids who have done it often get a lot out of study abroad or well planned school trips, don't they? Often cheap too, depending on the company. A dear friend's 14 year old son is on a people to people, 19 day program right now, and having a wonderful trip. Students who went with me years ago tell me the trips influenced their lives and choice of careers.

Of course, the OP knows what is best for her and her family, but if they wanted, they could save about 1/3 of the honeymoon costs and put it aside for a guaranteed future trip for SD. By 14, kids do go to Europe on school trips, and by 15-17, they do student exchange, so it would absolutely be possible for her to experience Europe another time. This would not be the only chance. She may not be aware of all the other opportunities, but could talk to her school and see what is available.

Whatever they do, I hope they have a great time.